ALLIED : Gustav Line BETA AAR Round Two - Eye of the Elefant

[Alan8325]

This turn... I spotted me an Elefant!

Images like this have gotta make you wish you had a forward bazooka team huh?

[Andrew H.]

I'm torn: I want to see the heroic snipers take out the Elefant with their entrenching tools...but I also want to some Elefanty action.

[A Canadian Cat]

Images like this have gotta make you wish you had a forward bazooka team huh?

Yeah, or rush some other mobile AT asset over there. Just look at that angle nice juice flank shot. In my best Ken impression - ATTACK!

[womble]

I'm torn: I want to see the heroic snipers take out the Elefant with their entrenching tools...but I also want to some Elefanty action.

Heh. Perhaps it should have been stipulated that there be two o' the beasts: one to be destroyed in a heroic and dramatic fashion by intrepid infantry, and one to methodically dismantle GaJ's defense from long range...

[herr_oberst]

I'm torn: I want to see the heroic snipers take out the Elefant with their entrenching tools...but I also want to some Elefanty action.

Pry that sucker open with your bayonets and let 'em have it.

[c3k]

I'm sure I'm not alone in noticing that the snipers have 4 grenades and that the elephant has an open hatch. Sigh. Do I actually need to draw the waypoints for GaJ?

It would be GLORIOUS.

[Hister]

Ha, a grenade falling into the tank's hatch - now that would make GaJ immortal!

[GreenAsJade]

I haven't given up on this idea yet Those guys were still alive last time I looked (waiting at the moment for next turn).

Images like this have gotta make you wish you had a forward bazooka team huh?

Actually, yes. In contrast to many of the other the things so far suggested that I "should have done", this is one that is simply "yep, darn it, wouldn't have cost much, would have been a great thing to fit in with the strategy I have".

GaJ

[zukkov]

well if patton had been running the italian campaign, he'd of been up front leading the charge on that elephant, proving his belief that heavy tanks are a waste of space!

[Offshoot]

Why use grenades when they have a scoped rifle? In the screeny, I'm sure I see a little head atop that Elefant.

Actually, yes. In contrast to many of the other the things so far suggested that I "should have done", this is one that is simply "yep, darn it, wouldn't have cost much, would have been a great thing to fit in with the strategy I have".

Given the difficulty you seem to be having (re)spotting Bil's troops, with hindsight maybe it would have been best to buy nothing but bazooka teams and leave them scattered about like snakes in the grass.

[GreenAsJade]

Why use grenades when they have a scoped rifle? In the screeny, I'm sure I see a little head atop that Elefant.

I zoomed up on it, those guys, at the time they spotted the Elefant, could see maybe the TC's hat and forehead. After that moment, the Elefant moved further onto Left Tit and tipped away from them, so all they could see was the side.

Given the difficulty you seem to be having (re)spotting Bil's troops, with hindsight maybe it would have been best to buy nothing but bazooka teams and leave them scattered about like snakes in the grass.

Yeah, I'd have loved that. Though... a plan based on concealment is one that can deliver all sorts of disappointment, is my experience. I'm yet to trust grass more than smoke, which is to say "not at all".

GaJ

[GreenAsJade]

Wow.

This turn delivered a massive "Holy crap, WTF??" and retaking stock of things. Bil opened fire with his JgPz on the Santa Maria Infante area!

At first I just couldn't believe my eyes. He is shelling an HQ unit hidden in a building, never moved, who don't have him spotted, at 1500+m range.

How could he have possibly known they were there? Is he just shelling all the buildings? That would be an unbelievable expenditure of rounds...

Then, after a subsequent shell (second? third?) hit the bunker that you can see in the middle of the above shot, I realised that he must be firing at that.

This led to a lot of zooming around and LOSing, I can tell you. That bunker was supposed to be below the ridgeline of The Spur from Hill 130.

Here's what it looks like from in the bunker. Peering through the concrete, you can see that Hill 130 is "completely" obscured by The Spur and the trees on top of it...

[GreenAsJade]

... or is it?

Getting out the binoculars, and peering at max zoom, lo and behold:

There are 3 little holes in the treeline that expose an LOS from Hill 130, and by some miracle the JgPz has parked right in the middle one, giving it a view of the bunker!

(you can see the dust from the shot it fired, the bunker can't see the tank itself)

So I got out the LOS tool, and went over Hill 130 with a fine tooth comb. Here is what I found:

... there are 4 long very thin areas from Hill 130 to the bunker, and the JgPz is right at the head of one of them. The Brummbar is not, and it didn't fire this turn. Everywhere not marked blue on Hill 130 in the above picture is out of LOS. Man! It's not like I didn't LOS Hill 130 from the bunker when I sited it - but I didn't go over every inch of it, obviously. Moral of that story: use the binos from every site for LOS checking, and be verrry careful about gaps in trees!

Even though Bil can see the bunker, he didn't have to fire on it. It's interesting that he clearly thinks he can take it out from there. This bunker, as described much earlier, is supposed to be a backstop defence, preventing troops from coming up the middle through the lower houses of SMI to the VL. As such, it's firing slit faces very obliquely to Hill 130. (And darn, could have faced even further around). Here's the shot that the JgPz has:

That is one heck of a long shot to put a shell into the slit.

So Bil must be thinking to actually blow the thing up. Personally, I've never experimented with that way of dealing with bunkers. If anyone has any concrete(*) experience to share, that'd be wonderful. Or maybe I just wait and see. It's not like I can do anything about it, heh. Certainly the shell that hit just pinged off and the occupants didn't batt an eyelid. Here's hoping that continues, though it might be worse if/when the Brummbar starts putting 88s onto it.

And, ooh, look what a JgPz shell looks like in flight from a barrel's eye view

*: Hah hah very droll .

[John Kettler]

GreenasJade,

And it's not even a "To whom it may concern" shell! As for bunker LOS, this is the proof you need to nail Bil for the illegal and gamey TPGS (Tree Penetrating GunSight), a device impervious to the laws of physics as applied to optics. I shall be most interested in how you prosecute this important matter.

Regards,

John Kettler

[GreenAsJade]

Heh heh - I don't think Bil has a gamey bone in his body, he's a Military Man. Heck, he comes up the centre every battle, spurning the obvious gamey benefits of the flanks

Well, as I said, the Bunker Is Spotted incident caused a lot more LOSing around the map. This uncovered the fact that an MMG posted in a nearby building, supposed to be covering the Left Approach Valley is also exposed to Hill 130:

looks OK, unless you know what you're looking for. In fact:

Oh man! Those guys are quietly out of there, I can tell you

[newlife]

Oh man! Those guys are quietly out of there, I can tell you

This is your best pic yet!

[GreenAsJade]

In other news, an HT has come pushing forwards from the Tits, looks like we are indeed moving into the next phase recon. (wait a minute, isn't that a bit gamey, using HTs as something other than backfield busses? )

My defence is reverse slope to The Spur for the most part, so it will get to proceed further unmolested for a while.

About 1 shell per minute continues to fall in the backline behind Hill 172. They are working their way north to south, getting closer to the Hill 153 VL. There's a HMG in their path, hiding in a foxhole. If Bill got really lucky one of these shells might land on them, at the rate they are going. It's a bit like dodging a tornado though - not very appealling. The HMG is just staying put, heads down.

The sniper fired on poor ole KW guy. I didn't see a red cross, he curled up and disappeared...

I guess a miss might be explained by the snipers being tired and hurt eh?

Gotta say those olive trees look gorgeous.

Also, did you notice the uniforms on the snipers, last turn screenie? Fantastic detail: boot sole patterns, textured belt ... awesome.

GaJ

[GreenAsJade]

This is your best pic yet!

Thanks! It's fun making them, but even more fun to know they're being appreciated

The "zoom" tool is excellent for getting good looking views - and as we've just discovered has a good

in-game use too. I can't say I've really used it that much at all before these AARs...

GaJ

[GreenAsJade]

Hey, I thought of something else to report.

Bil opened fire on my right flank harassers (MMG, Mortar), but those guys escaped unharmed, yay. The Elefant fired a big shell, it fell well short. MG fire rained around my MMG as they packed up - I still didn't get a sighting on any troops up on Left Tit, so it may be that this was all from the Elefant.

This is a good opportunity for me to go hunting the other KW guy...

GaJ

[GreenAsJade]

Another turn... Bil is rushing forwards with HTs. 2 HTs are pushing into the centre, up the main road:

The main response that I have to this is the AAHT. The rest of the whole midfield is on hide (except an MMG). Ideally, 2 HTs will come tearing into the middle and both go up in flames without seeing anything other than maybe 4 big barrels pointing at them. I can hope...

[GreenAsJade]

Over on Left Tit, 2 HTs came barrelling around heading for the left flank all of a sudden!

This caught my sneaky sniper over there quite by surprise, and the dummy decided to fire on them instead of hide.

So I imagine that's the end of him.

[GreenAsJade]

Simultaneously with his HT push, Bil has turned the harassing fire on the back ridge into a full linear barrage. I think that the harrass may have been mostly "keeping the barrage back by dropping spotting rounds with an out of LOS spotter" to control the timing of the barrage arrival, rather than deliberate harrassment for the sake of harrasment.

All very cunning, except that my response to an HT push is not on that ridge.

However, it is forcing me to dance around with the M10 that's back there... please please let me not bump into a stray shell!

GaJ

[sand digger]

Well, as I predicted, the honeymoon is over.

Regrettably, the JgPz spotted my ATG on the spur.

I guess the grass is concealing inf well, but the bushes not concealing guns so much...

...........................................................

Understatement of the year. Main reason why Normandy failed for me was the ridiculous spotting of AT guns, looks like that status quo remains. Really, you have a stationary AT gun hidden in bushes yet it is spotted from a distance by a AFV, how in the real world could that happen?

Decided to educate myself further on German use of AT guns, studied every video here http://www.youtube.com/feed/UCEVzcXyt-fqm9-bH9HboZAA Strange, when they used their AT guns agressively, which was often, they seemed to do OK, obviously they had not been told by BF that they were doomed before even getting one shot off.

Sorry, I can't pretend that this is a realistic game worth my playing time.

[GreenAsJade]

Please don't feed the troll, at least not in this thread.

GaJ

[snake_eye]

Another turn... Bil is rushing forwards with HTs. 2 HTs are pushing into the centre, up the main road:

Seeing these Ht's moving down that ridge road, I am just wondering what makes Bil doing such a risky move. I don't know what he might be seeing for attempting it. On my part looking at the map before the game started and pointing out at the best places to defend Santa Maria, I had ruled out the ridge road from any forward movement from the Tits, judging that it should be plainly in view of whatever the defence could gather. Apparently the LOS is playing tricks to either adversaries.

Gaj, Looks like your 50 quad might make the Ht's dance.However, nothing could be taken for granted in CMFI. Awaiting the result of the possible firefight.