Baffled

[timmyc69]

I played the old (classic) Battlefront games for years...CMBN, CMBB, and CMAK. I played them, easily learned how to play them and enjoyed them for almost a decade.

Now this new CMBattle for Normandy came out some time ago and I tried the DEMO...became totally baffled by it...and gave up. About a year later...now...I tried the DEMO again. I am ashamed and embarrassed to say...I can't even figured out how to start the tutorial. I have tried everything. There is NO SIMPLE manual or instructions for the tutorial. I have hacked around and found the menu for the hotkeys...so I can manage to move around the map...but as far as doing anything else...nothing. The top of the map for the tutorial says: "Setup Phase: Place units and give first commands"...yeah right! How does one "place a unit"? Unlike the old game there is no setup zone and no way to move or place the unit. I have left clicked, right clicked, double friggin clicked, tried to hold and drag...nothing? What gives? All you guys forked over 50 bucks for a game based on this demo with no instructions and no manual? Or did you just buy the game and when it came with a manual you at least had some kind of instructions? I have tried everything to activate the setup regimen with no luck. Yeah I know, someone out there will reply that I am learning disabled...but seriously how, in the DEMO, do I simply setup of the scenario. Thanks.

[Erwin]

IIRC the demo scenario does not allow you to change the set-up. You just play from the existing set-up. It's been a long time since I was at the CMBN demo stage but I think this is the issue you've been frustrated by.

Yes, (all) the CM2 manuals leave a lot to be desired. They are full of apparently useful info about weapons systems etc, but it's all stuff that you could have gotten from "Janes" or somesuch, and there is very little useful info (compared to the CM1 manuals) on how to actually use the weapons systems in order to play CM2 well.

You'll have to figure it all out by yourself, and/or spend hundreds, perhaps thousands of man-hours (as many of us do) on the BF forums asking questions about how to do things optimally.

CM2 is a great game that can be very rewarding as it is much more accurate/realistic than CM1,and the graphics are way better, especially after adding some of the superb mods that have been created. But, you won't find sufficient training/explanations in any of the CM2 manuals.

It often occurs to me that BF could make money by writing a serious and large manual about the CM2 game system and how to play optimally and marketing that document like many "shooter" games have done. And if it were a downloadable pdf it would cost nothing to print and publish.

[timmyc69]

I really appreciate your response. I just couldn't seem get past the "setup" as that was my first instinct after playing the old games for so many years and quite successfully. So now I will just try giving orders and see how it goes. Thanks again very much Erwin.

[womble]

There is a manual in pdf form in the demo files. That tells you how to start a game. Unfortunately there is no "tutorial" game in the demo files.

If you're playing the scenario I think you are, there isn't a setup zone, and the units have to start where you see them. From there you will want to designate move orders for the first turn.

I find your attitude offensive. Be advised that if you don't dial it back some, nobody will want to talk to you.

[timmyc69]

Thank you Womble...I will look for that manual...I apologize if you didn't like my attitude but it is pretty frustrating and it isn't as if I didn't try based on many years of long experience with the older games. I do appreciate your input...thanks again.

[costard]

I suspect timmy69 is frustrated and baffled, but not offensive.

I haven't played the demo. That said, if a setup zone exists, the ground colour will be appreciably different to the surrounding areas - a reddish or blueish overlay. Units may be placed anywhere within this zone by clicking on them (the overhead icon will change from green to bright orange), then selecting a move order from the movement menu (move, quick, slow, etc), then clicking on the ground in the setup zone. If you double click on the unit, it will highlight all the units in the group - so double clicking on a squad will highlight all the units in the platoon, double clicking on a company commander will highlight all the units in the company etc. The movement order will then apply to all the highlighted units. If the movement order thus given is for an area outside the setup zone, it will show up as a coloured line from the unit to the spot selected - a movement order that will be carried out when the battle is started.

Hope this helps. The learning curve is steep for CMx2 (don't expect to have fun in real time for quite a while) but the rewards are adequate recompense for the effort required to learn the game. Cheers.

[Wicky]

..I can't even figured out how to start the tutorial. I have tried everything. There is NO SIMPLE manual or instructions...

GAME MANUALS:

Included with this demo is a pdf version of the CMBN manual. You will need a copy of Adobe Acrobat Reader in order view these manual. That program is free and can be downloaded from Adobe's website here: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

As mentioned earlier the PDF manual for the demo should be in documents folder when you installed it.

[SlowMotion]

And if you want to be really baffled, try CMSF demo. Things happen so fast using modern weapons that you really have to change the way you play.

[akd]

The tutorial scenario in the demo is pretty much the same as the "Raff Moves Inland" mission of the "Task Force Raff" training campaign. There is a walkthrough for this mission in the .pdf CMBN manual. No setup zone is provided for this mission so that the initial deployment of forces conforms to that described in the walkthrough.

[noob]

Thank you Womble...I will look for that manual...I apologize if you didn't like my attitude but it is pretty frustrating and it isn't as if I didn't try based on many years of long experience with the older games. I do appreciate your input...thanks again.

Don't listen to that hairy litter picking c#####d, your attitude was in no way offensive, in fact, given it was a complaint post, it was admirably restrained, especially considering some people's responses to things they don't like about CM, myself included

[Blazing 88's]

Don't listen to that hairy litter picking c#####d, your attitude was in no way offensive, in fact, given it was a complaint post, it was admirably restrained, especially considering some people's responses to things they don't like about CM, myself included

You know, I was thinking the same thing. I decided not to bother with a response however.

[noob]

You know' date=' I was thinking the same thing. I decided not to bother with a response however. [/quote']

My family motto is "Always bother", and i mean that in both senses of the phrase

[tiger123]

Timmc69

You have committed the Cardinal Sin of criticising CM and Battlefront without including the phase " What a wonderfull game. Thankyou Thankyou."

I agree with you that CM2 is far harder to get into than CMx1.I think it suffers from borrowing too much from CMSF. IT doeds feel a bit( alot ) like CM StrikeForce but with Shermans.

[timmyc69]

THANKS TO YOU ALL...I fear I have made you all waste a lot time. Actually as soon as the first couple fellows mentioned that there was NO setup for the tutorial and that there WAS a pdf manual which I had not discovered until mentioned...I did make some progress. The only choice for the tutorial was REAL TIME...which added a whole new lever of frustration...I guess I am too old for real time because the Axis ripped me apart after I managed to move out figuring to "correct" any poor tactics as I went...NOT...it was a bloodbath.

Then I tried to start up one of the other battles. The only choice there were 2 player games...so I started one, picked the Allies thinking it would show me a set up screen but it just buttoned up and offered an outgoing email file name. So I tried as the AXIS and got the same result...now I conclude that the DEMO is not worth as much bother as I put into it...and that I should just opened my moth eaten sock and buy the game and hope I don't waste money. I would hope that at least the protocol of setting up and playing an email as in the old games will be the same...thanks to you all.

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After I sent the above off...I went back to the DEMO and tried to start a non-tutorial game again...I had overlooked the 1-player turn-based option...that made a big difference. There still was no set up so I couldn't see how that worked, BUT I the battle did start with the side I selected and I could get a sense of the how the engine plays when you are playing solitaire. I guess I was so muddled after hours of fooling with it that I going through the choices too quickly. I have seen enough to decide to buy it...an awful lot of you are out there playing and seem to love it. Perhaps in time I will manage to become accustomed to the differences between the old and the new...thanks agian.

[akd]

THANKS TO YOU ALL...I fear I have made you all waste a lot time. Actually as soon as the first couple fellows mentioned that there was NO setup for the tutorial and that there WAS a pdf manual which I had not discovered until mentioned...I did make some progress. The only choice for the tutorial was REAL TIME...which added a whole new lever of frustration...I guess I am too old for real time because the Axis ripped me apart after I managed to move out figuring to "correct" any poor tactics as I went...NOT...it was a bloodbath.

Then I tried to start up one of the other battles. The only choice there were 2 player games...so I started one, picked the Allies thinking it would show me a set up screen but it just buttoned up and offered an outgoing email file name. So I tried as the AXIS and got the same result...now I conclude that the DEMO is not worth as much bother as I put into it...and that I should just opened my moth eaten sock and buy the game and hope I don't waste money. I would hope that at least the protocol of setting up and playing an email as in the old games will be the same...thanks to you all.

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Nothing included is real time only or 2-player only. Note, however, the selection shown always defaults to the selection used for the last scenario played. If the drop-down menu is not opening when you click on it, there may be a mouse issue, although I'd be surprised if that's the case if you are not having mouse issues elsewhere in the game. You could try switching the process priority under options.

[womble]

Thank you Womble...I will look for that manual...I apologize if you didn't like my attitude but it is pretty frustrating and it isn't as if I didn't try based on many years of long experience with the older games. I do appreciate your input...thanks again.

You're welcome on all counts. It was the unnecessary frustration-generated comments on how others went about acquiring the game that grated, just so's you know.

[Wodin]

When coming to CMx2..forget about CMx1. Most who have issue with the game are too hung up on CMx1.

It's a new game..totally different. Also when you get used to it alot better. Though it still suffers alittle if you like WEGO like myself..still a great tactical game.

I'm surprised the demo is realtime only though. I wouldn't even bother with it if thats the case..

[womble]

I'm surprised the demo is realtime only though. I wouldn't even bother with it if thats the case..

It's not. It's just a matter of choosing the right play mode at game start.

[Pak40]

CMBN really needs a YouTube tutorial for the basics. Once you're comfortable with the basics then you can move on to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ6dDlqye9Q. However, this will be helpful regardless of whether you've got the basics down or not.

[John Kettler]

timmyc69,

Welcome aboard!

Forget CMx1. BFC made it, and it's about WW II and was 3D. There endeth the similarities. The CMBN learning curve is pretty steep, and you not only need to learn how to play, but what to watch for when playing. There's also some good news. Once you get out of the training scenario, with your nailed in place forces, you go to scenarios in which you have free deployment within your setup zone. The bad news? It doesn't incorporate the terrain you'd really like to be in from the start. In some scenarios, the enemy has the high ground clear across the board, making siting your defenses quite a thrill, what with your being on the low ground.

I've also been advised it's better to let the AI handle your direct fire cannon gunnery (not your antitank teams, who do stupid, ammo wasting things, need to be split from their squads and on short Cover Arcs until needed). In this way, you can do to the AI what it'll assuredly do to you, find paths for shots you haven't the faintest idea are possible, without standing on your head and analyzing LOS up and down the line, a particularly knotty problem with forces on the move. Know the game does NOT model short halt firing, so expect the Germans to come rolling in, firing on the move, with deadly accuracy. Yes, I know they had no gyrostabilizers, but it'll look that way in the game.

Beware of bridges. Bad juju. You need to make certain you run right down the center, with waypoints set before and after the bridge. Under no circumstances stop on one. Reverse out and try again. If you fail to do these things, you will find your AFVs ramming bridge abutments, bridge sides and trying to drive off the bridge and into the water or gulch. Bridges are known problems. Avoid the headache by knowing this ahead of time and planning accordingly. Also, expect to find siting antitank guns a challenge.

You can't put the gun where you want it. Rather, you try to do so, then the AI decides where the gun really goes in the 8 x 8m Action Spot. The AI does NOT handle this task well. Expect to find guns in building walls, in walls, completely behind houses and so on, while the AI studiously avoids the obvious keyhole positioning behind the house corner. Apparently, the best place for antitank guns is in brush. I'd recommend brush with a crater. I find antitank guns have lifespans less than some transuranic elements in a particle accelerator, but a crater, even absent brush, will hide the gun enough so it can get a few shots off--after which it likely dies near instantly in a hail of fire.

Pak40,

I really like your idea, but I doubt BFC has either the personnel or the budget to do it. From my own gaming experience, I feel safe in asserting it's much easier to get into a game if someone's there ahead of you, even if something so mundane as having read some or all of the rules and banging about a bit. I had no such direct help when I got into the CMBO Beta Demo, virtual only, but in my board wargaming in particular, such advance work was immensely valuable. Mind, the guy who'd played extensive solo then counted coup on us after inviting us to play the game took some of the fun out of it. But I doubt I would've learned AH's Up Front very fast had I not been walked through it by friends. Even so, a year later I found we'd been doing Ordnance wrong the whole time. My friends' disbelief became consternation when they found I was right!

SlowMotion,

I find the juxtaposition of your handle and complaints about speed of combat actions in CMSF to be most amusing.

Regards,

John Kettler

[c3k]

Timmc69

You have committed the Cardinal Sin of criticising CM and Battlefront without including the phase " What a wonderfull game. Thankyou Thankyou."

quote]

Okay, that _did_ make me laugh. Pointed humor is often the best.

[c3k]

THANKS TO YOU ALL...I fear I have made you all waste a lot time. Actually as soon as the first couple fellows mentioned that there was NO setup for the tutorial and that there WAS a pdf manual which I had not discovered until mentioned...I did make some progress. The only choice for the tutorial was REAL TIME...which added a whole new lever of frustration...I guess I am too old for real time because the Axis ripped me apart after I managed to move out figuring to "correct" any poor tactics as I went...NOT...it was a bloodbath.

Then I tried to start up one of the other battles. The only choice there were 2 player games...so I started one, picked the Allies thinking it would show me a set up screen but it just buttoned up and offered an outgoing email file name. So I tried as the AXIS and got the same result...now I conclude that the DEMO is not worth as much bother as I put into it...and that I should just opened my moth eaten sock and buy the game and hope I don't waste money. I would hope that at least the protocol of setting up and playing an email as in the old games will be the same...thanks to you all.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After I sent the above off...I went back to the DEMO and tried to start a non-tutorial game again...I had overlooked the 1-player turn-based option...that made a big difference. There still was no set up so I couldn't see how that worked, BUT I the battle did start with the side I selected and I could get a sense of the how the engine plays when you are playing solitaire. I guess I was so muddled after hours of fooling with it that I going through the choices too quickly. I have seen enough to decide to buy it...an awful lot of you are out there playing and seem to love it. Perhaps in time I will manage to become accustomed to the differences between the old and the new...thanks agian.

timmyc69,

I bolded the part in your post which is wrong. You make the selection of what type of play you'd like after selecting the battle. There is a default selection. It's been so long I've forgotten what it is, but based on your post, I'd guess it defaults to "realtime".

Look at the menus/screens which pop up; you'll see what I'm talking about. (Also, it's in the pdf manual.)

Good luck.

Ken