Destraex1 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 He found a lot of the same faults I had. However he is reviewing it compared to AAA titles with unlimited resources really. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 However he is reviewing it compared to AAA titles with unlimited resources really. And sh.t infantry and running around that is called "tactical combat" but has nothing to do with real world tactics... How stupid must someone be not to recognize the important aspects? When he stated "Battlefront is really behind the time" because of PBEM and no central server after he moaned about the campaigns i decided not to watch it any longer. I'm not willing to spoil a scenario because of a "reviewer" who is focusing at flyspecks to set the tone instead to EDUCATE teh reader/viewer and set the focus of the viewer / reader correctly that this reviewed game has hands down the world's best and finest infantry model and is the best software for tactical warfare ever and the rest compared to it is childish kiddy gaming. A sim VS games. A giant VS a show of absurdities and insults of intelligence. But since every review has to be the same, begin and end with the same topics, every idiot noit capable to make a decent review is following this path because everyone does so... This IMO completely wrong approach to focus on flyspecks instead of delivering the IMPORTANT INFORMATION to the readers is the reason, why games for the braindead with their impressive SHOW without any useful content have such a huge advantage over intelligent, interesting and good software if it is not as polished as the garbage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex1 Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 I did think he was a little harsh. Although he did touch on a few pet hates of mine like the camera controls and music. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I did think he was a little harsh. Yeah, harsh and shallow. James Allen, the proprietor of Out of Eight, contributed some scenarios to Shock Force and wrote a glowing, and grossly premature, 8/8 review. A review which, given the preemie state of that hastily released game, earned him a discharge of heavy flak from buyers who frequent his site and trust his judgment. He was embarrassed. Conflict of interest? In damning CMFI with faint praise I sense a man trying to reassert his street cred. That said, Allen's site .which covers every genre. is fun, comprehensive and usually reliable. He writes well, he entertains. He's a big fan of the Panther Games series, awarding the pricey Battles from the Bulge a perfect score. To each his own; their demos made my eyes bleed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Watching that video, the question I ask myself is how can someone styling himself as a reviewer approach a game in such a bored, exasperated, even annoyed, manner? He asks himself 'What now?' - well perhaps a career change? Or at the very least realize you are not a wargamer and do not present anything meaningful to wargamers. The obvious nitpicking and laundry list of pet peeves, while ignoring or glossing over the obvious improvements with the engine, makes that video pointless and negates any relevant input. Perhaps as Childress writes, he is still carrying around previous baggage. Either way the reviewer is completely clueless to real world tactical problems and the raison d'etre of a simulation like Combat Mission. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dokken1212 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Have to say personally I thought it was a very poor and unfair review. The game is superb and I applaud what Steiner 14 said earlier in the topic. I do however think a zoom to cursor would be of great benefit and also a way of playing the tutorials without the manual for us that download the game etc as well as a few other little things but that doesnt take the shine away from a simply majestic game. The reviewer is clearly not a reviewer as he doesn't for me give an objective and honest appraisal of the game .... not to mention his tactics were shocking!!!! Sending tanks along a road that hasnt been scouted or established as safe from AT attack. Says it all :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 A wargame reviewer who doesn't seem to know anything about tactics??? I would hate to be a grunt in his army. He didn't seem to have a basic grasp of the game. Why did he save and close the game to turn the sound back on? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Not a great review but he called it how he saw it. I suspect for the review he was demonstrating the effects not how good or bad a player he was. Though we know : ) He did correctly call BF on the countdown clock whilst giving reinforcements in forward time. If BF insist on messing with the time why not just go with a clock that says 14:30 or whatever and tell you its a capture by 15:15. Then the three reinforcements listed could be calculated or shown and make sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 One thing the "review" does highlight is the inaccessibility of the interface to the newcomer. For example, he complains about "scrolling" not zooming in to where the focus is, but fails to realise that if he Tabs while a unit is selected, it does very nearly exactly that. He notes that if you select a friendly unit, you see what it can see, but doesn't grasp that you can select enemy units at all, let alone that doing so lets you see who can see them. I watched it all the way through in sick fascination and so many times caught myself reacting to his statements with "But it's not like that!", then realised that I was reacting as someone who's got used to the interface and (I think) found all the tools that make 90% of his complaints go away. It made me think those tools/options should be easier to find. And why a truck? Cos it's got bullets in it, and if you were using suppression like you're supposed to, you'll need them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 While he makes some points that are really valid like accessibility of the game for the newcomers his review is really not of good quality. I understand that one is not eager to spend a lot of time if the game does not suit him from the get go but this game is a gem 'cos one really needs to spend a lot of time to realise how many important details and gameplay styles there are in order to be really able to appreciate it. On the positive side though with the reviews like that these forums will stay gentleman's oasis. And I really like that fact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 On the positive side though with the reviews like that these forums will stay gentleman's oasis. And I really like that fact. Gentlemans Oasis ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 He makes a few interesting points as well as expressing some age old criticisms of CM2. He also provides some incorrect information, like insisting on quitting back to options to turn the sound on. Mostly, he can't play CM for toffee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Eh, happens. Every time a serious game comes out someone not serious reviews it. Back in Ye Old Days game companies had some influence over who reviewed their games. Good game companies, like the one I worked for, were only seeking to have someone who would review it within the context of that genre. The last thing we, as a game company, wanted was a side scroller or RTS guy digging into one of our turn based cerebral games. Because the chances of that turning out good would be close to zero. Fortunately, game reviews have very little impact on our sales. Very, very little. Back in the old days they could make or break a marginal title with a marginal budget, but they couldn't harm one that was pushed by a big company. The best example of this was "Outpost" and "Outpost 2". At the time two of the worst reviewed, most trashed games of all time. But I saw the internal sales numbers for them and... how shall I put this... they weren't inline with the reviews. Now, this isn't to say we don't like good reviews. We do It's just that the customers who like our type of game seem to be smart enough to tell the difference between a fair review and a botch job. They're used to seeing them, especially the grizzled vets. Wargamers are also pretty stubbornly independent and want to come to their own conclusions. Which is why we put out Demos. If the Demo doesn't sell the player on the worth of the game, then 1000 glowing reviews wouldn't either. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 If I were an internet journalist I'd think twice before reviewing any CM games. Too risky. Especially since the advent of the CM2 engine. As I posted in another forum, CM and Battlefront seem to trigger violent emotions ranging from adoration to bitter, obsessive, stalking hatred. Issues over game delivery policies or tactical implementations get personal fast to an extent unrivaled in the business. I suppose there are other examples in the industry but, off the top of my head, can't think of any. Kind of fascinating, actually. A back-handed tribute? But one notices they're still around while others have slipped under the waves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipuli Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Eh, happens. Every time a serious game comes out someone not serious reviews it. Back in Ye Old Days game companies had some influence over who reviewed their games. Good game companies, like the one I worked for, were only seeking to have someone who would review it within the context of that genre. The last thing we, as a game company, wanted was a side scroller or RTS guy digging into one of our turn based cerebral games. Because the chances of that turning out good would be close to zero. Fortunately, game reviews have very little impact on our sales. Very, very little. Back in the old days they could make or break a marginal title with a marginal budget, but they couldn't harm one that was pushed by a big company. The best example of this was "Outpost" and "Outpost 2". At the time two of the worst reviewed, most trashed games of all time. But I saw the internal sales numbers for them and... how shall I put this... they weren't inline with the reviews. Now, this isn't to say we don't like good reviews. We do It's just that the customers who like our type of game seem to be smart enough to tell the difference between a fair review and a botch job. They're used to seeing them, especially the grizzled vets. Wargamers are also pretty stubbornly independent and want to come to their own conclusions. Which is why we put out Demos. If the Demo doesn't sell the player on the worth of the game, then 1000 glowing reviews wouldn't either. Steve But surely you are not saying your camera controls for example are one of the best in the market? The guy made good points, like why in the world is there no "music off" or master volume controls, all that I agree with, but also can live with because I like the product otherwise. Why must "serious games" be so damn serious that everything with a hint of "user-friendly" is a horrific act of blasphemy and must be avoided at all costs? I HATE the camera controls in CM, they suck, they really do... In CMx1 paths were shown on ground, not going through the ground like in CMx2... Back in the day CMSF came out I couldn't understand why in the world I couldn't move waypoints, but had to re-plot everything if I wanted to make some adjustments. It's 100% about user-friendlines of the interface, and surely it wouldn't hurt in case of CM either, correct? I would love to be able to fully focus on the tactical side and what is happening on the ground with my pixeltruppen, but a lot of the time is lost in trying to get into the angle where I can actually see stuff happening. Add to that the fact that if something happens outside my FOV (or I don't manage to see a flickering floating icon) I get no feedback of it happening, especially in the non-rewindable real-time play. I look left and on my right there is a Tiger II killing of some Shermans and infantry... I look back right and there is no indication of this except the dead stuff. It is frustrating and takes away a lot from the otherwise excellent game experience. Yeah, I am not serious enough a gamer, and don't know how to play REAL wargames... right? Well, no... What I am trying to say is, that having bought every single CM title since CMBO and enjoying them immensely (except CMBN somehow didn't hit the spot... though I bet Market Garden will do it for me), I cannot understand the attitude here on the forums that if something negative (and easily fixable, that would in no way jeopardize the tactical part of the game, but enhance it further!) is pointed out by the reviewers, it's shot down immediately by claiming the said reviewer is incompetent when it comes to tactical "serious" wargames. Seriously? Just saying... now back to Sicily, got job to do! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I HATE the camera controls in CM, they suck, they really do... Apparently you are playing a different game than I am. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Savage Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I agree most of the stuff he's saying about the interface. I found it annoying all the time, but tend to ignore it because CM is so fantastic game. BW, you really should fix these things about interface: -Pop-up help windows for ALL (example rank etc. interface buttons etc.) - make mouse and wheel interface like most 3D strategy games does (wheel zoom etc.) These are the most important things to fix. BTW. You nailed me (again). I was thinking NOT TO order CMFI and wait for next upgrade and order CMFI and new expansion for bargain price, but... Yeah.. Ordered super-expensive expansion again (80$ and euro rate is poor...). I'm eagerly looking for overlay-function in map editor. I remember talking about adding that feature in forums before. Great thing that you really done that! I'm a scenario designer and it will make my work MUCH MORE easier. That hopefully means that I can make more scenarios for people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I cannot understand the attitude here on the forums that if something negative (and easily fixable, that would in no way jeopardize the tactical part of the game, but enhance it further!) is pointed out by the reviewers, it's shot down immediately by claiming the said reviewer is incompetent when it comes to tactical "serious" wargames. Seriously The review of a car should focus on it's color and if the door-handles are painted? Are you a girl? I call this BS. A car review has to deal with the motor, it's construction and durability, with the chassis's durability, the seat ergonomics but not the usual ADVERTISEMENT GARBAGE that is used to fill the pages! If a reviewer of CMFI is complaining about a sound option and similar flyspecks and not analyzing or describing the best infantry model in the whole wide world, then this is almost a definition of stupidity par excellance to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I cannot understand the attitude here on the forums that if something negative (and easily fixable, that would in no way jeopardize the tactical part of the game, but enhance it further!) Easily fixable? Charles: Hey Stevo, we should change those camera controls for the next version it'll be an easy thing to do. Steve: No!!!, Don't change the camera controls I don't care how easy it is ... Seriously, do you really think this is whats going on at BF? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 The review of a car should focus on it's color and if the door-handles are painted? Are you a girl? I call this BS... Hehe. When Steiners attack... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chek Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 If you're looking for an accurate and realistic tactical wargame/simulation,regardless of reviews or stumbling with the GUI(which I've never actually found to be a problem),sooner or later you're gonna end up here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipuli Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 The review of a car should focus on it's color and if the door-handles are painted? Are you a girl? I call this BS. A car review has to deal with the motor, it's construction and durability, with the chassis's durability, the seat ergonomics but not the usual ADVERTISEMENT GARBAGE that is used to fill the pages! If a reviewer of CMFI is complaining about a sound option and similar flyspecks and not analyzing or describing the best infantry model in the whole wide world, then this is almost a definition of stupidity par excellance to me. Having a door helps, as well as enough space in the trunk to hold all my vodka... Clearly you don't understand what I wrote, but I had it coming. Love the commitment! Reminds me of many cool religions of the world . All reviews I have READ, and I don't waste my time on basic US/UK BS of "video game journalism", do state that the underlying model is great (the car engine for you?), but interface is far behind the modern games (your car has a square for a steering wheel, and it does not rotate) and the information feed on the status of your units outside your FOV is lacking (your car has no speedometer) and the camera controls are way more restricted than in most games (your car has no rear view mirror nor rear window). I am not calling your car slow, but _______ (hint: it has nothing to do with colour, as there is only 1 REAL and serious enough colour and if you disagree, you're a goat... (pink)). Any other idiotic comparisons? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zipuli Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Apparently you are playing a different game than I am. Nope, but I occasionally enjoy other games too and some things they do better. And my masochism treshold is not as honed as yours... You guys did read the other stuff I wrote too? Reading between the lines it says CM is currently the best there is, but why not improve on the parts that would make the best infantry model (etc.) even easier to enjoy? Oh well... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theFightingSeabee Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 There are hundreds our thousands of things bfc has on their to do list. Trust me, they are busting their asses to do them. But if they don't finish them all in a year, then do we want them to hold off until they are done and the game is perfect in every way, or would we rather take the improvements as they come? I'd rather take the incremental improvements so I have something to play! Imagine if e were still waiting on Normandy! As far as the camera goes, it suits me just fine. I can move ask over the map instantly and view from any angle I want. I can snap the view to any unit instantly, track a moving unit, etc. I'm not sure how it could be improved... It's very close to the classic total war style and I like it a lot. The review, well, is just one guys perspective. We all have our wants and expectations. The one thing he may have overlooked is that the CM series is still the cutting edge of the genre. No one else comes close. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 The one thing he may have overlooked is that the CM series is still the cutting edge of the genre. No one else comes close.Which then are those games that come far behind it? It's a bit off-topic but still related. I would like to learn some more about the genre in general. I know about Achtung Panzer although I have no clue how it plays or what it's mechanics are. Which others are out there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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