Vet 0369

Since you asked so nicely, Steve posted the following on August 9 ( or is that 9 August to you) on page 15 in the"state of CMSF2" thread. The bolding is mine.
And that's it, I'm done feeding the Troll.
 
"Seriously, this is just another example of the futility of release dates.  If I post wrong ones we get skewered for not delivering on expectations those dates set.  If I post no dates we get skewered for not doing things which set expectations which we aren't sure we can meet.  Damned if we do, damned if we don't is a really unfair position to be in, but we accept that is the way things work. 
Given that we have to make a choice between being damned for setting up expectations that aren't met or damned for not setting up expectations, I think the right choice is the latter.  If someone wants to lay out a rational case for doing things differently, I'm all ears.
Steve
P.S.  one of the beautiful things about being an independent, self publishing game developer is we don't have any problem with someone tuning out for a year and then coming back to see what we have.  We don't have a 60 day window to make or break our future like other game companies.  So if people want to check back with us in a year because that works best for that person, it works fine for us too.  No pressure."

@citizen, for the WWII families, the formations, equipment, and vehicles evolve and change as the years progress.
CMFI begins with Operation Husky in Sicily so you have the standard operating procedures (SOP) learned in North Africa. CMFI's module Gustav Line begins after the invasion of Italy, and I believe the formations evolve to include lessons learned during Operation Husky.
CMBN takes place just after June 6, 1944, and incorporates formation changes resulting from lessons learned in Sicily and Italy. The. Vehicles are later models than those in CMFI. The formations and vehicles evolve through the CMBN module Market Garden (MG) (you also need the Commonwealth (CW) module to fully play CMBN and MG).
CMRT is the Eastern Front in 1944. Soviet and German formations and vehicles.
CMFB is late Western Europe through the Battle of the Bulge and into Germany with formations and vehicles evolving from lessons learned during the Battle for Normandy and Market Garden. 
I hope this helps to give you a sense of the different Families and how subtly different each is. I Started with CMFI + GL and worked my way through time.
 

When asked by my manager at work why I laughed so much, I told her "You need to act your shoe size instead of your age. You'll have a lot more fun!" It still applies.🤓

When asked by my manager at work why I laughed so much, I told her "You need to act your shoe size instead of your age. You'll have a lot more fun!" It still applies.🤓

But they allow so many to gloriously die for their causes!

LOL! I often wished for this myself when I was a Rifle Platoon Sgt.

I began in war gaming with Avalon Hill's Squad Leader, progressed to Advanced Squad Leader, and finally online with CMBB. I must admit that I have a major character flaw. I don't pay any attention to the warts in the game or what I think it should be able to do, but can't. I accept the game as is, because for all it's bugs, problems, and limitations, IMHO, it's the best game set in the industry. The only thing that really gets my hackles up and causes me to bare my teeth is when someone complains that the BF support service is bad. I've had a number of issues that support helped me resolve, and if they couldn't help me, the next e-mail was from Steve, who once worked late into Christmas Eve to help me resolve a licensing issue, and finished by thanking me for my support of BF.
I respect and appreciate the help and guidance of the many grognards in the Forums (even if I don't always agree with their answers), who for the most part have the patience of Saints. If you've ever answered the telephone and had someone immediately launch into a tirade because they were transferred from one number to another until they get back to where they started, and then was then disconnected, you know what I'm talking about. Unfortunately, the Forums are anonymous and too many feel that they can be insulting jerks because they are hidden. If you are one who doesn't treat others with courtesy and respect just because you don't agree with them, then YOU are the problem! (Occasional lapses due to illness, bad days, extreme frustration excepted.)
Bottom line of this rant is my advice to realize that NOTHING IS EVER PERFECT, and to just enjoy playing the most amazing game set out there.

Of course, my comment applies only to drill and admin formations. In the field, my Marines were the model of coordination and team work. A well-oiled machine that anticipated what was expected and just carried it out. I'm sure Splinty's squad was the same.

Of course, my comment applies only to drill and admin formations. In the field, my Marines were the model of coordination and team work. A well-oiled machine that anticipated what was expected and just carried it out. I'm sure Splinty's squad was the same.

I am simply salivating at the thought of the CMSF2 Demo, and quivering in anticipation of its release. I was just playing the second mission of the CMSF1 Marines beach head campaign last night on my PC side (I have a MacPro with Boot Camp), and every time I thought I'd just make my commands, save, and go to bed, I'd say to myself "just one more turn," and hit the GO button. Is there a "Seven-Step Program" for Combat Mission addiction?

I began in war gaming with Avalon Hill's Squad Leader, progressed to Advanced Squad Leader, and finally online with CMBB. I must admit that I have a major character flaw. I don't pay any attention to the warts in the game or what I think it should be able to do, but can't. I accept the game as is, because for all it's bugs, problems, and limitations, IMHO, it's the best game set in the industry. The only thing that really gets my hackles up and causes me to bare my teeth is when someone complains that the BF support service is bad. I've had a number of issues that support helped me resolve, and if they couldn't help me, the next e-mail was from Steve, who once worked late into Christmas Eve to help me resolve a licensing issue, and finished by thanking me for my support of BF.
I respect and appreciate the help and guidance of the many grognards in the Forums (even if I don't always agree with their answers), who for the most part have the patience of Saints. If you've ever answered the telephone and had someone immediately launch into a tirade because they were transferred from one number to another until they get back to where they started, and then was then disconnected, you know what I'm talking about. Unfortunately, the Forums are anonymous and too many feel that they can be insulting jerks because they are hidden. If you are one who doesn't treat others with courtesy and respect just because you don't agree with them, then YOU are the problem! (Occasional lapses due to illness, bad days, extreme frustration excepted.)
Bottom line of this rant is my advice to realize that NOTHING IS EVER PERFECT, and to just enjoy playing the most amazing game set out there.

I began in war gaming with Avalon Hill's Squad Leader, progressed to Advanced Squad Leader, and finally online with CMBB. I must admit that I have a major character flaw. I don't pay any attention to the warts in the game or what I think it should be able to do, but can't. I accept the game as is, because for all it's bugs, problems, and limitations, IMHO, it's the best game set in the industry. The only thing that really gets my hackles up and causes me to bare my teeth is when someone complains that the BF support service is bad. I've had a number of issues that support helped me resolve, and if they couldn't help me, the next e-mail was from Steve, who once worked late into Christmas Eve to help me resolve a licensing issue, and finished by thanking me for my support of BF.
I respect and appreciate the help and guidance of the many grognards in the Forums (even if I don't always agree with their answers), who for the most part have the patience of Saints. If you've ever answered the telephone and had someone immediately launch into a tirade because they were transferred from one number to another until they get back to where they started, and then was then disconnected, you know what I'm talking about. Unfortunately, the Forums are anonymous and too many feel that they can be insulting jerks because they are hidden. If you are one who doesn't treat others with courtesy and respect just because you don't agree with them, then YOU are the problem! (Occasional lapses due to illness, bad days, extreme frustration excepted.)
Bottom line of this rant is my advice to realize that NOTHING IS EVER PERFECT, and to just enjoy playing the most amazing game set out there.

I began in war gaming with Avalon Hill's Squad Leader, progressed to Advanced Squad Leader, and finally online with CMBB. I must admit that I have a major character flaw. I don't pay any attention to the warts in the game or what I think it should be able to do, but can't. I accept the game as is, because for all it's bugs, problems, and limitations, IMHO, it's the best game set in the industry. The only thing that really gets my hackles up and causes me to bare my teeth is when someone complains that the BF support service is bad. I've had a number of issues that support helped me resolve, and if they couldn't help me, the next e-mail was from Steve, who once worked late into Christmas Eve to help me resolve a licensing issue, and finished by thanking me for my support of BF.
I respect and appreciate the help and guidance of the many grognards in the Forums (even if I don't always agree with their answers), who for the most part have the patience of Saints. If you've ever answered the telephone and had someone immediately launch into a tirade because they were transferred from one number to another until they get back to where they started, and then was then disconnected, you know what I'm talking about. Unfortunately, the Forums are anonymous and too many feel that they can be insulting jerks because they are hidden. If you are one who doesn't treat others with courtesy and respect just because you don't agree with them, then YOU are the problem! (Occasional lapses due to illness, bad days, extreme frustration excepted.)
Bottom line of this rant is my advice to realize that NOTHING IS EVER PERFECT, and to just enjoy playing the most amazing game set out there.

I began in war gaming with Avalon Hill's Squad Leader, progressed to Advanced Squad Leader, and finally online with CMBB. I must admit that I have a major character flaw. I don't pay any attention to the warts in the game or what I think it should be able to do, but can't. I accept the game as is, because for all it's bugs, problems, and limitations, IMHO, it's the best game set in the industry. The only thing that really gets my hackles up and causes me to bare my teeth is when someone complains that the BF support service is bad. I've had a number of issues that support helped me resolve, and if they couldn't help me, the next e-mail was from Steve, who once worked late into Christmas Eve to help me resolve a licensing issue, and finished by thanking me for my support of BF.
I respect and appreciate the help and guidance of the many grognards in the Forums (even if I don't always agree with their answers), who for the most part have the patience of Saints. If you've ever answered the telephone and had someone immediately launch into a tirade because they were transferred from one number to another until they get back to where they started, and then was then disconnected, you know what I'm talking about. Unfortunately, the Forums are anonymous and too many feel that they can be insulting jerks because they are hidden. If you are one who doesn't treat others with courtesy and respect just because you don't agree with them, then YOU are the problem! (Occasional lapses due to illness, bad days, extreme frustration excepted.)
Bottom line of this rant is my advice to realize that NOTHING IS EVER PERFECT, and to just enjoy playing the most amazing game set out there.

I began in war gaming with Avalon Hill's Squad Leader, progressed to Advanced Squad Leader, and finally online with CMBB. I must admit that I have a major character flaw. I don't pay any attention to the warts in the game or what I think it should be able to do, but can't. I accept the game as is, because for all it's bugs, problems, and limitations, IMHO, it's the best game set in the industry. The only thing that really gets my hackles up and causes me to bare my teeth is when someone complains that the BF support service is bad. I've had a number of issues that support helped me resolve, and if they couldn't help me, the next e-mail was from Steve, who once worked late into Christmas Eve to help me resolve a licensing issue, and finished by thanking me for my support of BF.
I respect and appreciate the help and guidance of the many grognards in the Forums (even if I don't always agree with their answers), who for the most part have the patience of Saints. If you've ever answered the telephone and had someone immediately launch into a tirade because they were transferred from one number to another until they get back to where they started, and then was then disconnected, you know what I'm talking about. Unfortunately, the Forums are anonymous and too many feel that they can be insulting jerks because they are hidden. If you are one who doesn't treat others with courtesy and respect just because you don't agree with them, then YOU are the problem! (Occasional lapses due to illness, bad days, extreme frustration excepted.)
Bottom line of this rant is my advice to realize that NOTHING IS EVER PERFECT, and to just enjoy playing the most amazing game set out there.

LOL! I often wished for this myself when I was a Rifle Platoon Sgt.

LOL! I often wished for this myself when I was a Rifle Platoon Sgt.

A CM module is never late! A CM module arrives precisely when it means too.
Gandalf

Regarding the operational level question, please remember the roots of CM. if I remember correctly, Steve and Charles began by developing a PC version of Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) until Avalon Hill, or Hasbro, pulled the plug on that project. I remember commenting to a friend who got me into CMBB that I could see the underpinnings of ASL (minus the dice rolls, to hits, to kills, checking the rule book, and etc.) in the engine of CMBB. To date, Battlefront has stayed true to that model of battalion size battles or smaller. The only difference I can see is that some ASL. modules included campaigns that could cover time frames of up to a number of days. Since I can't code, or even develop a proper scenario, i can't even to begin to imagine how labor intensive and time consuming it is to develop such a campaign.
I too am a member of Few Good Men, and was intrigued by their operational campaign structure, however, it just doesn't fit my level of play. There is a really good branching CMBN campaign called "Sie Kommen" that is very intricate. I've just never had the opportunity for a play through. We also have some good branching campaigns in CM. Two of which I can think of offhand are CMBN "Devil's Descent" and the American campaign in CMBS.
IMHO, Battlefront is (I assume) simply following their original business model of squad to battalion sized actions. I personally don't feel I could manage anything larger. I struggled with the size of "My Honor is Loyalty" which was a Brit battalion with armor and infantry, and an SS battalion with the same make-up, and "Dunes of Erde" (both H2H PBEM).
For those of you who look for an operational level campaign, try experimenting with designing a campaign tot is close to what you want. Some scenario and campaign designers have done amazing things that don't require the time and money of having to do it by Battlefront. I for one am perfectly happy with what we have. If I decide I want something with an operational level, I'll buy the game from a producer that specializes in that type of game play.

Yes, I agree with you. A good commander needs a balance of the two attributes. Both Patton and Chesty Puller were hard charging, aggressive commanders who got the job done no matter the cost. Fortunately, they were balanced by their own superiors who were more measured.
I love CMSF now. Unfortunately, a MacOS update a year ago broke my ability to play my Mac CMSF with all the modules. Even Steve couldn't fix it. Fortunately, I still had my original install disks for the PC version of CMSF and Marines that I installed in Boot Camp. I'm super excited to be able to play on the Mac side again. I would caution new players of the Marines that they should not (must not) play them as they would play the U.S. Army. You should consider Marines as heavy infantry shock troops. Each Marine platoon has the equivalent of an additional Army squad. That means that a Marine company has the equivalent of an additional Army platoon! Also, while the AAV is lightly armored, don't try to use it as an AFV. Your Marines will die. We didn't have the LAV when I was in, so I know nothing about it.
I'd love to see a combined campaign in which we use Marine Amphibious Assault to take a beach or port, followed by turning it over to the Army, which then continues the assault until the campaign needs another amphibious assault. In other words, using Marines and Army in the manner they were meant to be used. Something like the battle for Guadalcanal.

Yes, I agree with you. A good commander needs a balance of the two attributes. Both Patton and Chesty Puller were hard charging, aggressive commanders who got the job done no matter the cost. Fortunately, they were balanced by their own superiors who were more measured.
I love CMSF now. Unfortunately, a MacOS update a year ago broke my ability to play my Mac CMSF with all the modules. Even Steve couldn't fix it. Fortunately, I still had my original install disks for the PC version of CMSF and Marines that I installed in Boot Camp. I'm super excited to be able to play on the Mac side again. I would caution new players of the Marines that they should not (must not) play them as they would play the U.S. Army. You should consider Marines as heavy infantry shock troops. Each Marine platoon has the equivalent of an additional Army squad. That means that a Marine company has the equivalent of an additional Army platoon! Also, while the AAV is lightly armored, don't try to use it as an AFV. Your Marines will die. We didn't have the LAV when I was in, so I know nothing about it.
I'd love to see a combined campaign in which we use Marine Amphibious Assault to take a beach or port, followed by turning it over to the Army, which then continues the assault until the campaign needs another amphibious assault. In other words, using Marines and Army in the manner they were meant to be used. Something like the battle for Guadalcanal.

Based on reading both AAR's in CMFB, and this AAR, I would attribute your more measured and calculated approach more to Rommel. I see more of Patton's "Hell for Leather" aggressive approach in Banenan's style.
I also prefer CMSF to CMBS because of the technological differences between the two time periods. My own service time in the U.S.M.C. Was 1969 to 1980 when we were just changing our air/ground support tactics from WWII tactics because of the development of Manpads. Most importantly, CMSF is still the only CM family with a Marine module😄

Wow!!! At last. This is like watching Patton and Rommel!

The difference between cynical and experienced. When you're cynical, you EXPECT something to happen. When you're experienced, you KNOW it will happen. Let's just hope he's not speaking from experience!

The difference between cynical and experienced. When you're cynical, you EXPECT something to happen. When you're experienced, you KNOW it will happen. Let's just hope he's not speaking from experience!