Erwin

"...every QB, and the vast majority of scenarios have straightforward "grab the ground, kill the enemy" VCs." CM2 has always suffered from the unpredictable/strange way victory is calculated compared with CM1. I agree, too many times in CM2 the scenario will abruptly and unexpectedly end with an enemy surrender, leaving one "unfulfilled" and with a sense of anticlimax as one is deprived of the pleasure of experiencing a carefully planned attack endgame come to fruition. It is far too common that a game result can go from a big defeat to a big victory because of very small changes... a few men being killed etc. CM2 victory conditions are unstable in that regard. It's like CM1 is an aircraft that can glide predictably, and CM2 is a sophisticated modern aircraft which can become very unstable very quickly.

Is that a new version of Clash of Titans? I couldn't find that at Scen Depot 3.

Road to Dinas is highly recommended.

If you have any similar insight, a description of the British/CW strategy compared to the US would be very interesting/helpful (in CMBN/CMFI of course).

Try using a movement waypoint to have the unit with LOS move to the "target". Then target fire with the desired unit at the waypoint. Then don't forget to remove the movement order. (I use SLOW as it is not hard to forget to cancel movement and at least SLOW usually is not fatal.)

Yes, CM1 gives a final screen showing every distinct weapons system killed, as well as KIA, POW, WIA. Not sure why CM2 gives less info.

Yes, good result sburke. That's what I was hoping for. I like this scenario enough to keep trying. I forget... how does one post Spoilers??

I agree - I wish we had more "spec ops" type scenarios and campaigns. I like the sneaking around aspect and trying to NOT get noticed until one attacks. Or, even simply doing recon and not shooting at all(!) But, that requires more scenario time allowed. The uncon nature of this scenario is what I find most fascinating. I still do not understand if one can avoid the 500 point penalty the US player suffers for getting spotted. That's why I have been replaying it. To see if that can be avoided by not engaging the patrols. (But, I suspect that as soon as one ambushes the enemy, one suffers the penalty??) I can understand infiltrating by fast vehicle in open terrain. I was questioning whether one would do that in forest when presumably the enemy patrols which you know are patrolling the roads and paths could hear you coming for miles. What I was thinking of trying is having a team or squad recon the likely path for the vehicles to ensure it's safe.

+1

That's fine. But, my understanding is that modern Russians also have night vision stuff too. And in forest, you wouldn't expect to be able to see that far even with "enhanced optics". Plus, if you are in a vehicle bouncing around on offroad terrain, surely you have a disadvantage. If you stop regularly to look around, that would slow you to maybe walking pace again. Don't misunderstand. I really enjoy the scenario. But, I do want to have my guys act in a realistic manner. I plan to play this at least one more time as it is an xnt situation.

It's well worth playing the campaign. An outstanding Red (Army) vs Red (Rebels) campaign. I loved it!

Yes, am very happy that CMMODS is getting a face lift. An incredibly useful/essential CM site.

If it was open country I would agree. But, it's heavily wooded with paths - xnt ambush terrain, and the intel briefs us that the roads and paths are patrolled. One doesn't need "prepared defenses" for ambushes. Clearly it worked for you. But, coming at the scenario for the first time, it seems like a hell of a gamble to move vehicles thru that terrain without inf scouting ahead and on flanks. (Would be great if someone here with RL modern tactical experience could comment?) Anyone know if one gets points for exfiltrating? If one can accomplish the objectives without exiting the map and/or get an enemy surrender giving one a Total Victory that would work. It seems as if one has to gamble on the Total Victory. How many casualties did you suffer? Also, what triggers the 500 points loss to the enemy for the US patrol? Is it detection, or...?

I really like the scenario so I will try it again (and again...). If one knows the exact time the vehicles and extra arty become available, I could see making more use of them. The arty can kill the visiting HQ by itself. I used up all the 120mm asap as I was worried that the convoy would move away after a few minutes. Maybe leave a squad behind to escort the vehicles to help out the inf. I just can't get my head around driving em around enemy infested woods unescorted. I will see if I can get to the ambush obj in time without getting into a fight or being seen by the enemy patrols. That seems to be what is required if this was RL. If I was a visiting CO, it would be pretty bloody obvious that it was time for the convoy to run away if I heard all that shooting a couple hundred meters away.

Look great. Thank you...

Euri: I do something similar to you. It still takes me too much tome to get to the Ambush obj. Looked at Chris' video. I can see he has a different style. I am much more cautious and careful. To me the real challenge is to finish/win with 0 (or close to) casualties. I was firstly surprised that Chris uses MOVE for his inf when he knows there are enemy near. I thought that in CM2 one should only use MOVE when there is no chance of enemy contact as the troops are not configured to fight as they are when using HUNT. (Has MOVE been changed to be more useful in a high threat environment?) I can see two main reasons I run out of time: 1) I used a longer more roundabout route over the road designed for caution. Chris also moves them in a direct line toward the Ambush objective. 2) I use a scout element ahead of the main force. The scouts are the ones who always spot the enemy patrols. I use a combination of HUNT and QUICK with overwatch and almost never use MOVE. Chris just seems to either MOVE or QUICK his guys in one mass without any forward scouting. (He blundered into the enemy and even though he wiped them out, he lost 3 or 4 of his own guys before getting to the Ambush obj.) I was also very surprised Chris sent vehicles down paths that have enemy foot and vehicular patrols. I was expecting the vehicles to be massacred. (I don't think I would ever move the vehicles in this sort of terrain, other than to immediately exfiltrate. Does one get points for successful exfiltrate?) So, while he did get to the Ambush obj in time, I felt extremely uncomfortable watching the video as it seemed to be a very high risk approach exposing his own core unit guys to high casualties . I also note that he didn't seem to occupy the first objective at all - losing a lot of points. Is there a 2nd video showing how he accomplished the remaining objectives and won the scenario? I play CM as if it's me down there on the ground and I want to stay alive. My sense is that this mission requires more time to do appropriate scouting and moving. Alternatively, one needs to be satisfied with accomplishing the main Ambush, plus occupying the first objective, plus maybe a couple of the minor objectives along the river, and then exfiltrating.

One needs to cross the road to get to the ambush site and that is the first place one meets enemy patrols in all three playings so far. Each time I have to fight or back track to hide which takes 3-4 minutes. Once across the road I always meet enemy vehicles, so once again a delay. I think fighting is a big error as I note I lose 500 points every time as presumably my force has been spotted/identified. So, hiding seems the way to go. Maybe I have been unlucky and there are AI routines where this doesn't happen. But, I find the same enemy ambushes on the way to the next objectives as well. Do you split the force and got after the objectives separately in order to get to all three in time?

I really like your see through icons. Looking forward to the release...

Have been playing the first mission. The scenario is extremely interesting as I greatly enjoy missions requiring recon and sneaking around trying to avoid contact. However, have tried it 3 or 4 times now and I can't see how one can get to the ambush site within the required time (let alone the other objectives). There are several enemy patrols so one can't just run it. If one stops to kill em it takes time. If one hides and lets them pass that takes time. I play WEGO and use HUNT a lot to avoid running into the enemy, so am wondering if this is designed for RT play where one can pause instantly there is a contact and take action. I can destroy the convoy (mostly with arty) with no friendly casualties with about 50 minutes left. But once I start moving up the line of objectives, again there are enemy patrols so I find myself at the 2nd bridge with only about 35 minutes left - again with no friendly casualties (which I assume is important).

Fascinating to see how you did it, Umlaut. Even your tutorial was so professional with music etc!

It's a good point. In CM2 it's very common to have the AI unexpectedly surrender before one has the chance to execute the final stages of one's brilliantly planned attack. It's very frustrating akin to "coitus interruptus".

I d/l the mods and they look terrific. However, COWER looks like a normal stance and it is easily confusing with regular. Also, does the computer take into account the medic is lying down, or is his exposure still calculated as if he was kneeling. If the latter, it looks more realistic, but the poor sod will still die as easily as he does now. Also, where do we place these .ani files??

On a related note that has been mentioned many times before.. Given the relatively small maps of CM2, isn't MOVE rather a wasted option since it's supposed to only be used in safe rear area movement - of which there is usually very little in CM2. What was the reason for eliminating the useful MOVE TO CONTACT of CM1, since HUNT is too slow and tiring for longer distances?