Doug Williams

Congrats on taking the leap and buying Red Thunder. BTW, you will never "complete" Red Thunder, or any other CM game. There is literally no end to the entertainment you will receive from each title, because there are always new scenarios being released and new Quick Battles to try, not to mention the sandbox of designing your own maps and battles. Also, once you step into the multiplayer arena, you have entered a brave new world of CMing, as you will be able actually crush a human opponent beneath the bootheel of your brilliant strategy, and hear the lamentations of his women (or suffer ignominious defeat be carried home on your shield). Seriously, playing the AI is fun, but multiplayer takes it to a whole new level. For now though, you should start off playing the smaller scenarios VS the AI until you get a grasp on how the engine works. Trying a battalion size battle as your first game must have been rather daunting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIgZ7gMze7A

So you've spent $150 on leisure activities in the past two days, and here you are complaining about a $10 upgrade to a game that has given me *many* hours of entertainment, and that I look forward to playing for years to come? I'm out.

It's an extra $10. If you're already thinking of spending $75, is $85 a deal breaker? Or you can wait. I'm sure it will eventually be included and/or the price will come down.

Wiggum, I took the time to go to the BFC store and yep, it looks like if you purchase the download only CMFI + GL bundle for $75 that you do indeed have to spend another $10 for the Upgrade to be completely up to date. I did some further checking, and it doesn't look like there have been any further patches released since the 3.0 upgrade. So, $85 total to have a completely current version of CMFI + GL. Whether or not it's worth it is completely up to you. It's totally worth it for me, and I spent full price for the base game, GL, and the patch, as separate purchases. If it makes you feel better, I agree with you that BFC ought to go ahead and include the 3.0 Upgrade with the purchase of the CMFI + GL bundle. But then, I don't make my living running a computer wargaming company.

@Wiggum15 Well, I will say that I agree with you there. The $75 CMFI + GL bundle should already be 3.0, IMO. Needing to purchase an upgrade immediately after buying a game could be off putting for new customers.

Bull****. Absolutely we should support the paid engine Updates. That is what keeps the older titles on par with the newer ones. What I would support is lowering the "bundle" prices for new players on the older titles, thus reducing their initial expense for buying a "Family". I will never begrudge $10 for updating an older title to a newer engine.

Roger that. All I'm having to decide is which mine to step on next. :-P

You need to quit flappin your gums on the forums and send me the next turn in your ass whuppin. ;-)

If your deciding factor is going to be initial expense, then there are only two real choices: CMBS if you want to play Modern era, or CMRT if you want to play WW2. Neither of these have any modules released yet, so they will be the least expensive for you to purchase right now. Just keep in mind that, if you get as addicted to these games as most of us on these forums, you are eventually going to purchase everything anyway. ;-) Edit: And no, I would not just purchase the base game of either CMBN or CMFI. Doing so will severely limit your multiplayer options. Most of us who play either of these games multiplayer have all the modules/packs/upgrades. These two are an all-in purchase at this time, IMO.

I looked at it again just now and it does seem that the $105 "big bundle" buys everything that has currently been released for CMBN and upgrades the engine to the latest version. As I understand it, CMBN is now complete, and there will be no further modules or packs released for it, so that $105 buys you the entire game. I'm sure BFC will continue to release upgrades for it, as more improvements to the game engine are made. These upgrades have, historically, cost $10, and are what keep the older titles in line with the most recent releases (as opposed to the free patches, which are basically bug fixes). With all that said, I happen to agree with you that $105 is a lot of money to drop at one time for a computer game. I'm not going to try to tell BFC how to run their business, but I would urge them to consider a price drop on the CMBN bundle. In fact, at this point in time, I would think they would offer the "big bundle" as the entry point for CMBN new players. Edit: And I'm sure BFC would hear much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the early adopters if they did that. As a customer who has preordered and paid full price on every CM game, module, pack, and upgrade, I can say that it would not bother me one iota if BFC dropped the price on their older releases.

Hmmm, It's possible (probable even, especially with CMBN and CMFI) that the demos are rather out-of-date as far as game engine performance, compared to the latest, fully patched versions of the actual games. I can tell you that I have no problems with the performance of any of the actual games (CMBN/FI/RT/BS), even on Huge battles. My PC is Windows 7, I7 4770k @ 3.5 GHz, 16 gb of ram, and a GTX 680 video card. I know the GTX 680 was a high end card when it was released, but I find it hard to believe the GTX 770 wouldn't be even better. Try turning Shaders off. Should be able to do that from the main menu under Options/Advanced.

Good thread. Bocage > sandbags, foxholes, or trenches as far as cover/concealment. This I know for sure. Now that AT guns are actually useful I almost always combine them with sandbags. Seems to give noticeable protection to the crew from small arms fire.

The Italians are the most difficult nationality to win quick battles with, especially against human opponents, unless you use a lot of "house rules". Their squads don't split, their firepower is weak, and their armor sucks. The only thing they have going for them are the Brixias, IMO. Nevertheless they can still be fun to play in well balanced scenarios. To be honest with you, most of the CMFI games I play are USA V Germans. If you are a western front fan, then CMBN should be a no brainer. A lot of the maps that were included in the base game were kinda generic, with lots of bocage, but Market Garden added more map variety. If you go with CMBN, get the big bundle. Might want to check to see if that still buys you everything......I haven't checked in a long time. As for active player base, join a gaming club like We Band of Brothers and/or Few Good Men and you should have no trouble finding opponents. But yea, the initial learning curve is going to be steep, but well worth it, IMO. Once you get good at using the game engine, transitioning from one CM game to another is rather easy. The hardest transition (after the initial learning curve) is from WW2 to Modern, or vice/versa if you've only played Modern. I'm a noob at Modern, but have still been doing pretty well just using the lessons I learned in CMBN/FI/RT.

Combat Mission, the Role Playing Game. I wanna play a tank class (specifically the Abrams). Now we just need a healer, crowd control, and a couple of DPS. ;-)

Welcome to CM. Don't make the mistake of believing that just because CMBS and CMRT are newer that they are "better" than CMFI or CMBN. BFC keeps the older releases updated with paid game engine upgrades, so they never become obsolete. The most recent version of CMBN is quite a bit different than when it was first released. Your decision should really be based on what theatre you have more interest in, as well as (like others have pointed out) the fact that the older titles can cost more money due to the fact that they both have modules that have been released for them, whereas CMBS and CMRT have not yet had any additional content released. If, for example, somehow I were forced to choose only one CM title to play from this point forward, I would choose CMBN, because it's my favorite. CMBN, CMFI, and CMRT are all very similar, since they are all set in WW2. CMBS is *very* different, being set in the modern era. So really, it's up to you, just don't think that CMBN and CMFI are somehow outdated or obsolete, because all four games use essentially the same engine, thanks to BFC's upgrade policies.

I'm confused by the term CMX1 in this thread. To me, CMX1 was CMBO/CMBB/CMAK.

Ok thanks for the replies. The strange thing about it is I tried the same map as a single player game with me defending as the Soviets and the AI attacking as the Axis, and it gave me the proper (large) setup zone for my forces, but when I try to use that same map in a PBEM, my defending Soviet opponent only gets the small attacker's setup zone. Grrr. I'll try loading it in the editor.

Today I tried to start a Red Thunder QB with an opponent, me Axis, he Soviets. We wanted to do an Attack QB with me attacking as the Axis and him defending as the Soviets using one of the QB maps included with the purchase of Red Thunder, specifically "Open Farmland-Forrest Attack 006". When we started the game, with me attacking as Axis, my opponent's forces were only given the small strip of land normally relegated to the attacker to setup in. Is this "working as intended"? If so, would someone be so kind as to list all the QB maps included with RT that work properly with an Axis PBEM attack?

Can a unit, once it reaches Rattled, ever improve to a better morale state than Rattled?

Not even for the attacker in an attack scenario/QB? That takes away half the advantage of being the attacker. I have no problem with the attacker doing a pre planned arty strike, but the defender never should, and neither side should in a meeting engagement. That's pretty much my only "house rule".

Playing through the smaller scenarios in order (and playing an occasional QB). Played "Opportunity Knocks" yesterday. This is a "stealth" scenario where a U.S. night patrol is tasked with eliminating some AA guns. Well done, Ian!! I really enjoyed this one. Managed a Draw. This was my first time using the Javelin. Very impressive. Major Spoilers Below: Used a combination of Hunt & Move to try to sneak up along the stream to the Russian emplacement. Encountered some small arms fire from enemy troops after a few turns, but it seemed to me that my soldier's fire was more accurate than that of the enemy. I know my troops were equipped with night vision gear. Did the Russians also have it? Finally got far enough that I was able to spot the AA guns. Wasn't sure how to actually use the Javelin, so used the Target command and took one out. Then another AT team took a second one out without the Target command, so it seems that the Javelin is automatically used like the zooks in WW2 CM (no, I haven't read the manual). Thinking there were only two AA guns, I started heading back to the exit zone, but got sloppy and didn't use much stealth. Big mistake. Was ambushed by enemy troops and some sort of APC that took out half my guys in about two turns! Much nerd rage at my own carelessness ensued. Finally managed to herd the survivors out of the exit zone. I took about 50% casualties, caused a few enemy casualties, and destroyed 2 out of 3 AA guns. The game gave me a Draw, but I doubt my company commander would be pleased.

WeGo Elite.

I have them all, and CMBN is still my fav.

I shouldn't even mention it, because my time in the service was nothing compared to most of you, but I did spend eight years in a reserve MASH unit, starting in 1983. Mostly what we did was go out in the in the field and practice putting up GP large and GP medium tents. I got out shortly before Desert Storm. The unit I was in did get called up and went to Iraq. I think the army has decommissioned all MASH units now, in favor of taking the wounded to larger field hospitals. I suppose transportation is so much better now that there isn't much need to have a MASH unit tagging along close to the front.