The Road Ahead

[Wodin]

I think the real issue with this is that it wouldn't be as interesting at CM's squad level scale (with maybe a few exceptions). You want to play a wargame at a level where the decisions you make make a difference in the battle. With a small handful of exceptions (late war infiltrations, maybe tanks), what your company does won't make much difference at all. You need to be at the battalion or regimental or division or corp level to be able to really affect things in WWI. (This would also be generally true of the Napoleonic wars or US CW - Pickett's charge was, after all, an attack by 3 divisions).

The reason, of course, is that by WWII (and this is even more true today), smaller elements had a lot more firepower, but were also forced to spread out more because everyone had more firepower. Normandy had lots of company level battles in the bocage, for example, and the Bulge had a lot of instances of companies (but also platoons and even squads) fighting independently in significant battles. And despite the larger scale, this also happened in the East as well - Pavlov's house was held by a platoon for two months.

Actually squad\platoon scale is the best scale to do WW1. You'd be very surprised. Many small actions and bigger scale battles even on the West Front that would be great at squad\platoon scale. Maybe at the operational and strategic scale it was stagnant but not at the level this game portrays. The myth that no small scale tactics happened during WW1 stems from one battle and thats the Somme. The walking in lines across no mans land, was because it was felt the Kitchener army was trained enough to cope with tactics so it was decided that Arty would do the job, they where wrong. So WW1 at squad\platoon is fine even on the West front if you choose the right battles.

[Smeel]

Interesting, which battles?(Don't know anything about wwi but the big picture).

[Yggdrassil]

It's almost December and still no update? this makes me a sad panda

c'mon people, at least give an estimated release date...for shock force 2 at least....screenshots would be nice...a demo even better....full release would mean I build you a little altar for burning incense and such

I had a crazy hope of being able to play new CM during Christmas...for some reason, probably because I first started playing CM BB during holiday season, nothing says Christmas to me like playing Combat Mission with Jingle Bells heard in the distance

But seriously now, I've been wondering about one thing - what season will the Shock Force 2 (an imaginary 2014 war in Ukraine) in its first release include? Winter, summer, muddy autumn...? I have a longing for some eastern front winter action, with modern toys

Imagine T-90 in winter cammo:)

[TrailApe]

Interesting, which battles?(Don't know anything about wwi but the big picture).

I would think that any action after Operation Michael (21 March 1918) would be so similair to WW2 that the only difference would be the equipment. Loads of ebb and flow, Germans pouring forward one minute - heroic allied last stands like Manchester Hill, then the Allies pour forward using all arms tactics. The '100 Days' campaign at the end covers a similair period to Normandy, so it's not as if it would be out of the current timescales of CMX2.

However prior to that CMX2 could be an ideal engine to simulate the trench raids and bitter struggles in no mans land by platoons and smaller units.

Even in the big attacks, companies and platoons have as much relevance in WWI as in WWII (you could equally say Normandy was a Divisional/Corps struggle if you wanted to act Devils Advocate)

[womble]

c'mon people, at least give an estimated release date...for shock force 2 at least...

You want an estimated release date for the 3rd or fourth product in line, when they don't have a release date for the BN patch, let alone the BN upgrade or MG?

I had a crazy hope of being able to play new CM during Christmas...

That may well be the very definition of a crazy hope.

[Yggdrassil]

You want an estimated release date for the 3rd or fourth product in line, when they don't have a release date for the BN patch, let alone the BN upgrade or MG?

Nowhere is it stated in what sequence the releases will be made. It makes more commercial sense that SF 2 will come before or sandwiched betweeen WW2 releases, to diversify the offering.

So yes, a rough ball-park release date in terms of Q1/2/3/4 of whichever year shouldn't be reason for such surprise on your part, or cause for condescending attitude directed at me.

[Michael Emrys]

Nowhere is it stated in what sequence the releases will be made. It makes more commercial sense that SF 2 will come before or sandwiched betweeen WW2 releases, to diversify the offering.

There is certainly some demand for an updated SF game, but it may not be as large as you hope. BFC does not talk about their precise sales figures, but you can be sure that they strongly influence their choice of products to give priority to. Among historical wargamers, WW II is still the most popular subject SFAIK. I'd suggest that you be prepared to wait another six or seven months before you start looking for SF. Meanwhile, there may be some additions to the BN and FI line, with the v2 upgrade for BN probably the first and the MG module released either concurrently or soon after.

Michael

[womble]

Nowhere is it stated in what sequence the releases will be made. It makes more commercial sense that SF 2 will come before or sandwiched

betweeen WW2 releases, to diversify the offering.

The magnitudes of difference between the work involved in generating a whole new title in a brand new time frame and rolling out a bug fix (admittedly non-revenue-generating) and update (which will probably be purchased by a high percentage of existing customers - money in the bank) plus the goodwill generated by fixing what is broken (making people more likely to experiment with a new period when it is released if they are confident the product is working as intended) say you're wrong. The first of those elements also suggests that you're naive to expect a date to be announced for the huge time-requirement before a date can be estimated for the smaller projects.

So yes, a rough ball-park release date in terms of Q1/2/3/4 of whichever year shouldn't be reason for such surprise on your part, or cause for condescending attitude directed at me.

It would be a cardiac-inducing surprise to many of the older folk on this forum if BFC ever released a "serious" quarter-estimate of the launch of any of their products.

You'd know all this if you'd bothered to read the stickies or apply some critical thought.

[Michael Emrys]

Never tell a Brit that condescension is a bad thing.

Michael

[Yggdrassil]

The magnitudes of difference between the work involved in generating a whole new title in a brand new time frame and rolling out a bug fix (admittedly non-revenue-generating) and update (which will probably be purchased by a high percentage of existing customers - money in the bank) plus the goodwill generated by fixing what is broken (making people more likely to experiment with a new period when it is released if they are confident the product is working as intended) say you're wrong. The first of those elements also suggests that you're naive to expect a date to be announced for the huge time-requirement before a date can be estimated for the smaller projects.

The first post in this thread by BFC specifies that the three next modules to be expected, Eastern Front, MG and Shock Force, are listed in no particular order. If BFC has not specified which of these comes first, all of your fine speculation is just speculation. Nothing released so far conclusively points out that this is the case. One could argue that the same logic you apply to future releases should have led BFC to first release an upgrade for CMBF, and only start working on FI after that.

Certainly nothing suggests that SF 2 will be the 3. or 4. product down the line. Why should we take for granted that Eastern Front takes precedence?

It would be a cardiac-inducing surprise to many of the older folk on this forum if BFC ever released a "serious" quarter-estimate of the launch of any of their products.

You'd know all this if you'd bothered to read the stickies or apply some critical thought.

Sadly, I am not one of the older folk on this forum. I have read the entire 'The road ahead' thread, and applied as much critical thought to the subject as it warrants (it's a bloody game, not brain surgery!), and have been unable to reach the conclusion that BFC never releases a serious quarter-estimate for its products.

Maybe I lack your superior mental faculties, I don't know.

Still, does that mean you get to push me around, call me names or condescend me? If you do not like my question, you are not obliged to answer it.

Seriously people, is this what passes as welcome on this forum?

[para]

Seriously people, is this what passes as welcome on this forum?

Yes, it is

p.s. welcome Yggdrassil

[Yggdrassil]

Yes, it is

p.s. welcome Yggdrassil

Oh...so I guess it's something like

where

should have known

[Michael Emrys]

Why should we take for granted that Eastern Front takes precedence?

Because that's where the big money is.

Maybe I lack your superior mental faculties, I don't know.

It's worth thinking about.

Still, does that mean you get to push me around, call me names or condescend me?

Huh? Has someone come into your home and physically assaulted you? If not, "pushed around" sounds a little over-dramatic to me.

If you do not like my question, you are not obliged to answer it.

People trying to answer your question are doing so out of a comradely desire to be helpful. That you choose to be offended when you are told that you possibly won't get what you want as soon as you want it...well, that's kind of sad.

Seriously people, is this what passes as welcome on this forum?

Yeah. We're a pretty nice bunch all in all.

Michael

[Holman]

I never got a proper welcome on these forums. I had to condescend to myself.

[Michael Emrys]

I never got a proper welcome on these forums. I had to condescend to myself.

There, there, Martyr, don't feel left out. God hates you too.

Michael

[Yggdrassil]

People trying to answer your question are doing so out of a comradely desire to be helpful. That you choose to be offended when you are told that you possibly won't get what you want as soon as you want it...well, that's kind of sad.

The post I took offence was not comradely and not that helpful. And I got offended because I was called naive, lacking in critical thought and negligent in exploring the forum for my answers - and all I wanted was a ballpark release date :confused:

Calling somebody out in those circumstances is not not sad either, at least not in my book.

I won't post anymore on this issue since I do not want to come accross as argumentative, but all in all, not cool...

See, this is what happens when you vaguely announce stuff, and then keep silent about it . People get antsy....

BF, we want our release dates!

Well, I do at least...can't speak for others:)

[para]

The post I took offence was not comradely and not that helpful. And I got offended because I was called naive, lacking in critical thought and negligent in exploring the forum for my answers - and all I wanted was a ballpark release date :confused:

Calling somebody out in those circumstances is not not sad either, at least not in my book.

I won't post anymore on this issue since I do not want to come accross as argumentative, but all in all, not cool...

See, this is what happens when you vaguely announce stuff, and then keep silent about it . People get antsy....

BF, we want our release dates!

Well, I do at least...can't speak for others:)

I always get annoyed with the lack of information from BFC. I have got used to it now though and so will you.

[para]

double post, sorry

[Michael Emrys]

I wanted was a ballpark release date

That's not how BFC conducts business. And they are very smart not to. Consider: They announce a certain game will be released during a certain upcoming month. Then unforeseen problems with the game crop up (they always do), or somebody on the team has a blindingly brilliant idea that will improve the game. So what then is BFC supposed to do, come on the board and with a simpering grin announce "Sorry, folks, but we've decided to hold off two more months." The two months pass and the product still "isn't quite there, but another three weeks should do it, honest." Or alternatively, they stick to the announced date and release a buggy, half-finished steaming pile of poo. They did that once and got very badly burned and nearly destroyed their reputation in the process. I don't think they are at all eager to repeat the experience.

BF, we want our release dates! Well, I do at least...can't speak for others

You got that last part right.

Michael

[76mm]

Sure, all of us would like accurate release dates, but that's just not how it is, or how it will ever be. I just always assume that whatever I want (East Front!) will be release "next year" and eventually am pleasantly surprised. Works for me...

[Andrew H.]

I never got a proper welcome on these forums. I had to condescend to myself.

Weren't you invited to the monthly forum parties in Maine? Scotch tasting, Weasel rides...good times!

[Renaud]

Whatever it is I'll buy it just for armor cover arcs...especially anything ostfront. But how I'll ever find the time to play it I don't know. 12 years changes your priorities what with kids and all.

[jpratt88]

I'm going to jump in here and give my 2 cents...and wade into to all of the condescending remarks and such. Here is my opinion of what will be released and in what order etc... I base this on reading between the lines and other comments from battlefront.

1st on June 22nd Moon stated that they were actively working on CM: Battle for Normandy Module 2 (which will center around market garden), CM Eastern Front 1 (Operation Bagration), and CM Shock Force 2 (Nato and Russia in the Ukraine) That is the order that he announces...does not mean that is the order they will be released.

2nd on the 27th of July Stephen Grammont, Co-Founder of Battlefront and Co-Creator of the Combat Mission series, does a community interview for the Wargamer.

http://www.wargamer.com/article/3215/community-interview-combat-mission-fortress-italy.

Stephen says this with the final question...

"We have already announced we're actively working on our first Eastern Front game (Bagration to end of war) and a temperate setting for NATO and Russian forces. We have the Market Garden module in the near term and will likely start on the first module for Italy soon. Beyond that, we're not committing to a specific timeline for other topics we will definitely cover (Bulge, Eastern Front 1943-44, etc...)."

So my opinion is we are very close to the release of CM Battle for Normandy module 2 which will include the updated game engine and for those that do not want the new module but the updated engine...that will be released around the same time frame and maybe after to drive sales to the new module first, but that is just a guess. That's what I would do...as far as which comes out first, Cm Eastern Front 1 or Shock Force 2...I think that just depends on which one they actively complete first. They are certainly working on both given their comments. I would put my money on Eastern Front 1 before Shock Force, just because in telling us what they are working on they have both times put the Eastern Front in front of the Shock Force 2. (I think that is subconsciously showing their hand) I do think you will get a CMFI module sandwiched in some place...to comment on something Michael Emrys said about the demand for Shock Force 2...I think the demand is larger than what you may think, i seem to see a lot of post and excitement about it. I will enjoy all of them...I must say that I am getting a little impatient, I'm ready for a new one...

[Frenchy]

As they have always said in the past..."when it's ready." It's been the mantra since the old CM days...I have gotten used to it. I just check the website every couple of days for news...

[Holman]

As long as we're speculating, does anyone have any idea of what the eventual module for CMFI might contain?

I assume the next module will expand the war to mainland Italy and cover the whole period from Salerno to the end of the war, adding the American, German, and Italian equipment necessary for that. I suppose another module would add Commonwealth material to the mix. I'm uncertain whether snow is a big enough factor for there to be a winter module for CMFI.

There's a danger in trying to string out too many modules. Most of the equipment for the Italian campaign will already have been introduced (though in different camouflage) in CMBN and its modules. What can BTS best do to make the new products feel like something more than re-skinned versions of older material?

Also, what should the name of the Italy module be? "Road to Rome"?