The Road Ahead

[Broadsword56]

If CMFI ends in the June 1944 timeframe with the fall of Rome, then I suppose we'll be able to use an eventual Bulge module (and its updated engine) to make late-war Italy battles in the snowy Apennines, etc.

[jpratt88]

As long as we're speculating, does anyone have any idea of what the eventual module for CMFI might contain?

I assume the next module will expand the war to mainland Italy and cover the whole period from Salerno to the end of the war, adding the American, German, and Italian equipment necessary for that. I suppose another module would add Commonwealth material to the mix. I'm uncertain whether snow is a big enough factor for there to be a winter module for CMFI.

There's a danger in trying to string out too many modules. Most of the equipment for the Italian campaign will already have been introduced (though in different camouflage) in CMBN and its modules. What can BTS best do to make the new products feel like something more than re-skinned versions of older material?

Also, what should the name of the Italy module be? "Road to Rome"?

As stated in the Wargamer interview with Stephen Grammont, Co-Founder of Battlefront and Co-Creator of the Combat Mission series.

"Eventually, Italy will cover all the way up to the end of the war. The first module will introduce Commonwealth forces and bring the fight to the mainland."

"We haven't 100% nailed down the Commonwealth forces yet, but for sure Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand will be in the first module. Other forces, such as Allied Italians, will likely work their way into the game in Packs (more unit focused than Modules)."

http://www.wargamer.com/article/3215/community-interview-combat-mission-fortress-italy

[Michael Emrys]

As long as we're speculating, does anyone have any idea of what the eventual module for CMFI might contain?

They haven't said. Some have speculated that before we leave Sicily a Commonwealth Forces module should be introduced. There is a certain logic to that, but keep in mind that BFC often follows its own logic.

Michael

[Erwin]

Wot... no Poles??!! How can one play Monte Cassino?

[jpratt88]

They haven't said. Some have speculated that before we leave Sicily a Commonwealth Forces module should be introduced. There is a certain logic to that, but keep in mind that BFC often follows its own logic.

Michael

Michael...Battlefront actually states what they plan on doing in the interview with the War gamer magazine. They state that they are going to release a Common Wealth module and what nationalities will be in it...now they could change their minds...so anything could happen, but I would go by this for now...I have attached the link, I think you would find some of what they say interesting....http://www.wargamer.com/article/3215/community-interview-combat-mission-fortress-italy

[para]

actually he says this...

Szmania: What shall we see the Combat Mission series taking on next?

We have already announced we're actively working on our first Eastern Front game (Bagration to end of war) and a temperate setting for NATO and Russian forces. We have the Market Garden module in the near term and will likely start on the first module for Italy soon. Beyond that, we're not committing to a specific timeline for other topics we will definitely cover (Bulge, Eastern Front 1943-44, etc...).

which to me seems to say OMG is next. Or am I reading it wrong? He also says they are using a steady broad-front approach. That suggests to me that they will be jumping from one theatre to another with releases etc..

[Yggdrassil]

The wargamer interview strongly indicates that Market Garden module is the first to come out.

Just because it seems like a neat idea, I'd say Bagration is released on 22 June 2013. You heard it here first

Shock Force 2 comes in between.

that would be a very nice schedule I think

[Wodin]

There is certainly some demand for an updated SF game, but it may not be as large as you hope. BFC does not talk about their precise sales figures, but you can be sure that they strongly influence their choice of products to give priority to. Among historical wargamers, WW II is still the most popular subject SFAIK. I'd suggest that you be prepared to wait another six or seven months before you start looking for SF. Meanwhile, there may be some additions to the BN and FI line, with the v2 upgrade for BN probably the first and the MG module released either concurrently or soon after.

Michael

Not so sure you know. I wasn't into modern warfare but still bought CMSF a couple of years after release. I thought when CMBN came out I wouldn't go back, yet I miss the modern warfare setting with all it's toys. I also imagine NatovsWarsaw Pact will sell alot more than CMSF set in Syria.

Also remember CMSF and it's modules kept BF going for a fair old time and even they say the sales where very good and much better than they expected them to be. I wouldn't underestimate the want for CMSF2 or the amount of sales it will get. I'm an East front fanatic yet I'm looking forward to CMSF2 as much as the East front tile.

[sburke]

Not so sure you know. I wasn't into modern warfare but still bought CMSF a couple of years after release. I thought when CMBN came out I wouldn't go back, yet I miss the modern warfare setting with all it's toys. I also imagine NatovsWarsaw Pact will sell alot more than CMSF set in Syria.

Also remember CMSF and it's modules kept BF going for a fair old time and even they say the sales where very good and much better than they expected them to be. I wouldn't underestimate the want for CMSF2 or the amount of sales it will get. I'm an East front fanatic yet I'm looking forward to CMSF2 as much as the East front tile.

amen on that! I am absolutely looking forward to CMSF 2. Hell CMSF itself will be on my computer for years to come even with the release of CMSF 2.

[JRMC1879]

amen on that! I am absolutely looking forward to CMSF 2. Hell CMSF itself will be on my computer for years to come even with the release of CMSF 2.

Amen to that Amen - CMSF is still - even after all this time the pinnacle of modern tactical combat. I will personally buy any and all product these guys put out as far as CM goes. To me these games are light years ahead of anything else we have - as far as I am concerned given the quality - at the moment BF are operating in a market without any serious competition. I hope I am still scanning their website everyday in 20 years time.

[Duckman]

I think you need have no fear of the PTO usurping the Eastern Front's place in BFC's production schedule, if for no other reason than Steve's stated adamant opposition to such a move.

For some reasons developers seem to hate the PTO. I remember the same thing with Close Combat, even though that game was extremely well suited to the PTO and poorly suited to late war ETO. Of course that meant they did the Bulge...

As mentioned in this thread there was plenty of interesting tactical action in the PTO, tanks and all. As for popularity it does lack Ze Germans, but the ever-popular USMC are there. The wealth of PTO material for ASL and other games proves it can sell.

What makes me want it is 1) the lack of other games on the subject, as already mentioned and 2) the much-better-than-I-anticipated infantry modelling in CM2 compared to CM1. Really, almost all the pieces are there already: splitting squads, decent TAC AI, night battles, etc etc.

[Frenchy]

I have been wanting this for a long time, but I do understand BFC's reason not to do it. However I think the period of August 1942 through 1943 would offer a good gaming period, since both sides were relatively even. Victory could have gone to the Japanese had it not been for some poor decision making.

Perhaps some food for thought for BFC...

For some reasons developers seem to hate the PTO. I remember the same thing with Close Combat, even though that game was extremely well suited to the PTO and poorly suited to late war ETO. Of course that meant they did the Bulge...

As mentioned in this thread there was plenty of interesting tactical action in the PTO, tanks and all. As for popularity it does lack Ze Germans, but the ever-popular USMC are there. The wealth of PTO material for ASL and other games proves it can sell.

What makes me want it is 1) the lack of other games on the subject, as already mentioned and 2) the much-better-than-I-anticipated infantry modelling in CM2 compared to CM1. Really, almost all the pieces are there already: splitting squads, decent TAC AI, night battles, etc etc.

[altipueri]

Not enough tanks.

Just nuke 'em and get it over and done with. Can you imagine trying to do a CM2x invasion of Japan on 1:1?

[Michael Emrys]

For some reasons developers seem to hate the PTO.

I wonder if one of the undiscussed reasons that never gets talked about is the US racism that was so flagrant during that period. It seems to me that one of the reasons that the US public was so indignant and vengeful about Pearl Harbor was a feeling of "How dare those little yellow bastards do this to us!" We would have been angry no matter who would have done it, but the war against Japan took a particular edge that fighting against the Germans did not, even though both countries were committed to programs of vicious atrocities. Somehow, even in the face of acknowledged evil, the Germans are accorded a measure of respect that the Japanese are not.

So, bottom line, what I am saying is that the Pacific War carries a lot of emotional freight that developers are reluctant to go near. I think something similar affects BFC's rather gingerly approach to the Middle Eastern wars, especially those involving Israel, even though on a purely military basis they are fascinating and very gameable. They are just too much of a hot potato and BFC doesn't need the grief. One might think that being further away in time, feelings about the Pacific War might have dimmed, but apparently that is not quite the case. Yes, we have been getting along just fine with the Japanese since the end of the war, but there is lingering unease over the excesses committed by both sides while it was on. No doubt this is aggravated to some extent by continuing reluctance in some quarters of Japan, including some official ones, to own up to the horrors they routinely committed.

Like I said, a hot potato lurking in there if not handled carefully.

Michael

[Mord]

I disagree...it's no hotter than the Holocaust. I think a game on the Pacific (and Nam as well) are ripe for bringing in a bunch of new players and money. When you have the market cornered customers will come. No one else is doing it...at least not at the level of CM. It would be a great opportunity if not for BFC but maybe some mercenaries ala CMA.

Mord.

[Holman]

I don't think the racism of the Pacific War is a factor for a tactical game like this one. There's no place to put even a hint of racial attitudes in the game, and as a strictly tactical affair there are no hot button issues to deal with.

BTS has already risked the political hot button of invading a Middle Eastern country, even to the point of including terrorists and suicide bombers as playable units. Nothing in the PTO comes close to that for controversy.

[sburke]

I don't think the racism of the Pacific War is a factor for a tactical game like this one. There's no place to put even a hint of racial attitudes in the game, and as a strictly tactical affair there are no hot button issues to deal with.

BTS has already risked the political hot button of invading a Middle Eastern country, even to the point of including terrorists and suicide bombers as playable units. Nothing in the PTO comes close to that for controversy.

Agreed. I suspect the reasons are more along the lines of

1- How well will sales hold up

2- What tactical issues wil they have to face that may be difficult for the engine to handle. (underground fortifications, the expectation that amphibious landings would have to be included etc).

[Broadsword56]

And of course flames and flamethrowers.

[Wodin]

Jungle warfare is hard to do and may not be the most fun to play.

[TheDudeAbides421]

I saw someone mention 'Nam in a post earlier. I was thinking awhile back that this series would be great for a Vietnam game. The engine is capable of letting people patrol through a map without the direct mission being combat related and also is the optimal engine for any sort of direct action, especially since company level seems to be the general size most people like. Probably would bring a whole new set of players with all the Platoon, Full Metal Jacket and Hamburger Hill freaks out there (me too, grew up watching them). Maybe some thing to think about for CMx3

[Erwin]

I enjoyed Omega Games boardgame "Ranger" which simulated patrolling in Jungle-type terrain (and I recommend checking it out if you haven't already).

Perhaps Pacific Theater is more suited for FPS since the perception is that it's nearly all point blank combat in dense jungle and you really want to be able to see through the eyes of the troops on the ground to a greater extent than one currently can in CM2.

Secondly, it's also mostly infantry and small unit combat and not every CM fan is interested in that.

Thirdly the game would have to simulate tiger traps, tunnels, a better ambush model, and for Vietnam, Claymores etc. Also, Vietnam was not about military ops but political-social maneuvering. The game would have to show how you can win all the battles and lose the war.

[riptides]

Off map exits would help the Vietnam type scenarios.

[Erwin]

And speaking re RANGER, it appears it's being developed as a computer game now:

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20121207/TSJ01/312070004/Ranger-Training-Board-Game-Goes-Digital?odyssey=tab

[womble]

Off map exits would help the Vietnam type scenarios.

There already ways to have troops exit the map. Don't see quite what you're suggesting here.

[riptides]

There already ways to have troops exit the map. Don't see quite what you're suggesting here.

Are there points and conditions associated with doing exits?