Next CM:BN Titles?

[Michael Emrys]

I have an entire walk in closet that I have converted into a library for ww2 books.

You're only getting started. I had to build a loft in my bedroom to hold my bookcases. But then, I've probably been at it longer than you.

So I have read hundreds of them. And yes many of them have inaccuracies, just like the doco's. Unless someone has been living under a rock somewhere they would realize this. What makes you think ww2 books or books in general are the Gospel or true.(

I don't recall anyone in this thread claiming that books are the gospel. A fair number are crap, and there are more every year. That's why it is good to have read widely and critically so that you can make informed judgements and weed out the crap. The thing about docos is that the relative amount of misinformation is a lot higher in them. I've noticed that most of the time someone shows up on the web spouting what I know to be nonsense, however innocently, their source has been something they saw on tv. I don't know about you, but that tells me something.

Michael

[Broadsword56]

You're only getting started. I had to build a loft in my bedroom to hold my bookcases. But then, I've probably been at it longer than you.

Ahh, that's nothing. I had to build a reinforced bunker in my back yard, and float a Mulberry to receive incoming book shipments...

Geeez, you guys!

[Hessian deserter]

What's with all this hostility? I pointed out that I think the doco you linked to is rubbish, and you come back with "Judge JonS," "blind faith," accusations of ADD, and all the rest of this nonsense? Do you have some personal involvement in the production of the doco, or are you just embarrassed to be called out for promoting rubbish? I gave up after 3 parts because watching it was making me dumber. I understand that they're somewhat limited in what footage is available, but the section on the Churchill was just awful. The maps are uniformly appaling, but worst of all was the analysis offered which is juvenile and highy confused at best and flat out wrong at worst.

Books and journal articles - the good ones - are better than docos. For starters they have the time and space to explore and develop coherent lines of argument, and they have references so you can - and I do - check for yourself whether the author is telling porkies.

.

I know full well that authors get things wrong, and their analysis can be flaky. That's why you won't find anything by Irving, Ambrose, or Kurowski in my library, and it's also why you'll find my books liberally littered with marginal notes.

PROTIP: critically assessing things is important. Claiming docos are 'teh bezt!!!1!' because they go well with popcorn and a 20oz bucket of coke isn't very compelling.

Well I enjoyed the documentary.I think your complaints about it were overstated and innaccurate, with a large dose of smartass trown in. I think your opinion is rubbish. You have your opinion,I have mine.

No I did not produce the doco myself. I just have problems when it comes to dealing with what I percieve as a tactless,know-it-all smartass'es who never have anything good to say about anything . Your'e not one of those are you?

Excuse me for suggesting the WW2 doco. I will not do it again. I am sure some of the more tactfull members of the forum may have appreiciated it.

[JonS]

Well I enjoyed the documentary.

[cheap shot]Well, that's all I need to know about you and your 'opinion'[/cheap shot]

[hoolaman]

I just have problems when it comes to dealing with what I percieve as a tactless,know-it-all smartass'es who never have anything good to say about anything . Your'e not one of those are you?

Yes but he's our tactless know-it-all smartass.

[MikeyD]

You will learn more from one good book than you would from ten TV doc

I've got to admit some of the British 'equipment' documentaries in particular have improved greatly in the last few years. The time-waster history channel cable stuff can still be pretty awful, though. Voice-over describing Dunkirk while a pict of a T34 rolls across the screen. That kind'a stuff. Since they're recycling a limited supply of 'action' clips it becomes a game to pick out the anomalous footage. That one's postwar, that one's a training exercise in Kentucky, that one's of German soldiers in 1942 Russia! You could make a drinking game of it. Chug a beer every time a Normandy documentary shows recognizable Russian front footage.

[noob]

I watched one documentary about the Russian front where they just reversed some film of Operation Barbarossa to show the retreat from Kursk, and in one clip of the Battle of Britain they used clips of TIE fighters from Star Wars !!!

[Michael Emrys]

...in one clip of the Battle of Britain they used clips of TIE fighters from Star Wars !!!

Good lord! They weren't even trying to get it right!

Michael

[JonS]

Good lord! They weren't even trying to get it right!

Nope. If they'd had them in X-Wings that'd have been fine.

[Sequoia]

Anyway with the Bulge, 4 East Front and CMSF II game series planned we really know Battlefront's plans for years to come. The only question is if there will be anymore independent surprises such as CM:Afghanistan.

[GI Jas]

@Sequoia, Battle of the Bulge? And 4 Eastern Front games? Are these CM titles confirmed by BF?

I would love to see Battle of the Bulge with snow! and Market Garden with paratroops landing everywhere. It only makes since after presenting Normandy to keep moving eastward towards Germany.

[Mord]

@Sequoia, Battle of the Bulge? And 4 Eastern Front games? Are these CM titles confirmed by BF?

I would love to see Battle of the Bulge with snow! and Market Garden with paratroops landing everywhere. It only makes since after presenting Normandy to keep moving eastward towards Germany.

Those are BFC's plans thus far...

Mord.

[Gurra]

Dodging the issue of the worth of documentaries and so forth, regarding accurate footage, I surveyed some of the episodes of this

http://www.history.co.uk/shows/world-war-ii-lost-films/about.html

Perhaps not so much for the overall presentation, but there seem to be a fair amount of interesting footage.

On the subject of litterature, I would like to take the chance to point out this one

http://www.amazon.com/Normandy-1944-Organization-Organizational-Effectiveness/dp/0921991568

As is the case with historical analysis in general, there is always the case of the author's interpretation, but I found this study worthwhile reading. Personally, I have not read a lot of the first wave of post war works on the Allied invasion of Normandy, but referring to the author himself, one of his intentions with the book was to bring a more faceted picture of the struggle where earlier litterature had seem to give a false impression of the german opposition, predominantly in numbers and organization. Most of this is probably known to the great number of you fellow combat missionaires, but I still recommend it. This also coincides with another topic about in the forums, where someone (was it LongLeftFlank?) was mulling over the seemingly appearant edge the germans seemed to benefit from in tactical combat, as the book encapsulates that topic in the main frame. The author is a scholar at the Swedish National Defence College.

[sburke]

On the subject of litterature, I would like to take the chance to point out this one

http://www.amazon.com/Normandy-1944-Organization-Organizational-Effectiveness/dp/0921991568

As is the case with historical analysis in general, there is always the case of the author's interpretation, but I found this study worthwhile reading. Personally, I have not read a lot of the first wave of post war works on the Allied invasion of Normandy, but referring to the author himself, one of his intentions with the book was to bring a more faceted picture of the struggle where earlier litterature had seem to give a false impression of the german opposition, predominantly in numbers and organization. Most of this is probably known to the great number of you fellow combat missionaires, but I still recommend it. This also coincides with another topic about in the forums, where someone (was it LongLeftFlank?) was mulling over the seemingly appearant edge the germans seemed to benefit from in tactical combat, as the book encapsulates that topic in the main frame. The author is a scholar at the Swedish National Defence College.

Have it and though I can't vouch for what is in it, I think the premise is interesting and I don't have anything to refute the data.

Another one that Broadsword pointed out to me as being back in print and which will soon take it's place on my shelf when I finish reading it is Normandiefront: D-Day to Saint-Lo Through German Eyes by Vince Milano and Bruce Conner

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?field-keywords=normandiefront&url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks

[JonS]

The essays at the start of the book are largely weird and worthless. The appendicies are sometimes interesting ... and sometimes just weird and worthless filler. The one about the two unrelated authors having a tanty at each other about some other book springs to mind here.

The useful meat of the book is the central section about the various divisions and sub units. I have every confidence that the information presented is accurate but, given the overall tone of the book, I have somewhat less confidence that the information presented is complete. He has a relentless position that could be summarised as "

"

The lack of a table of contents and index is astonishing.

[GerryCMBB]

What operations are covered under CMBN. For example, are battles from Operation Cobra included?

Thanks,

Gerry

[bodkin]

What operations are covered under CMBN. For example, are battles from Operation Cobra included?

Thanks,

Gerry

Not in the official missions IIRC. The game allows for battles from June to August at the moment so Cobra is possible. I'm interested to know if the Bulge game will cater for the Lorraine-Alsace campaign.

[sburke]

Not in the official missions IIRC. The game allows for battles from June to August at the moment so Cobra is possible. I'm interested to know if the Bulge game will cater for the Lorraine-Alsace campaign.

Curious as well. The timing would fall under the Market Garden module, but not necessarily the building structures and terrain options.

[Sequoia]

As I understand it, for the Market Garden module, locality will be an selectable option in the scenario editor so one can select either Netherlands or France/Belguim and get the appropriate terrain and buildings.

[Mord]

As I understand it, for the Market Garden module, locality will be an selectable option in the scenario editor so one can select either Netherlands or France/Belguim and get the appropriate terrain and buildings.

Was that from an official answer or a guesstimation on what was said? I like that idea but the last time I remember anything, Steve told me in a thread that there'd be like, flavor objects and buildings specific to Holland but nothing about how they'd do it.

Mord.

[Sequoia]

I went back trying to find a post by Steve on which I based this and the most I could find is him saying the Market-Garden module would have terrain options. So I have to say this is more a guesstimation on what my 50 year old brain was remembering at the time.

[Mord]

LOL good enough. Regardless of how they do it, I am just glad they will be doing it. It'll keep the design aspects of scenarios fresh with region specific terrain and the like.

Mord.

[Sublime]

Perhaps the terrain will depend on the map.

Like QB maps from CMBN will have the normandy textures, while later ones will have their respective textures. And the editor will have them all for people to make as they please.

This would seem to make the most sense, or seem the most doable, at least to my fragile little mind

[Sequoia]

I'm thinking you would have to want something that would limit the Market Garden module terrain to specific scenarios otherwise if the new terrain were just added at large, it would be difficult to make scenarios that were not dependent on having the Market Garden module. It would be undesireable to have a scenario unplayable by others without the module just because you used one building type.

[sburke]

I'm thinking you would have to want something that would limit the Market Garden module terrain to specific scenarios otherwise if the new terrain were just added at large, it would be difficult to make scenarios that were not dependent on having the Market Garden module. It would be undesireable to have a scenario unplayable by others without the module just because you used one building type.

This is pure conjecture, but I expect mostly we may be talking about independent buildings including windmills and terrain options like dikes perhaps. I don't know what will be the requirements for modules and what not, but I expect if you build a scenario using either the ToE or map using the items in the module, folks would have to have it to play it.