Mapmakers Report For Duty

[Sgt Schultz]

We have scenario makers and questions threads.

We have map questions thread. Maps are mixed in here and there all over the forum.

How about some declarative statements of intent from the purveyors and feedback/requests from the folks who will be consuming?

Sound off here with any pertinent info you may choose to share in regards to all things mapmaker, such as...

What kinds of maps will you be making?

Historical, semihistorical, fictional, arcade(da jeep racetrack map ftw)?

ME, Probe, Attack/Assault types?

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Possibly include details such as...

general map sizes that you plan to create

what kinds of maps you want to see out there

what makes you feel your map is "done"

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And of course ... this would be a fine place for volunteers for all those meta-campaigners out there that will be looking for maps.

I will put my info down in a seperate post to keep things clear.

*

[Sergei]

I understand your enthusiasm as a Frenchman, but I think for most people it'd be a little too early to really tell what they can do with the game. It takes some time playing (both the game and with the editor) to get a good feel of that!

[MikeyD]

I've got no inside info on the subject but I expect to see Repository open a dedicated CM:BN wing, a scenarios & maps subforum show up like CMSF has. Just remember BFC isn't a thousand man company. Give 'em a few days to get all their ducks in a row after initial release and you'll probably see all the appropriate subforums and sections appear.

Personally, I'd like so see people a bit less fixated on faithfully recreating some gruelling historical hedgerow battle and focusing a bit more on FUN! You'll never find a wartime account of Six Tigers fighting twenty Shermans on a 2 sq km city map but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a blast.

[LemoN]

Personally, I'd like so see people a bit less fixated on faithfully recreating some gruelling historical hedgerow battle and focusing a bit more on FUN!

I think it really depends on your definition of fun.

Some people get more fun from accurate missions while they don't get "fun" from missions that focus on "FUN", whatever the definition may be.

[Sgt Schultz]

Facepalm

My apologies for not noticing that CMSF has subforums.

I am quite sure BFC will make a place for maps/scenarios/campaigns.

I will save all my other info for that happy day.

As was the case in BO/BB/AK, there is an incredible wealth of talent and resources going into historicals.

Unless I get a request for a meta-campaign map with notes/etc, I will be going fictional.

While I always endeavoured to make immersive and playable maps, any resemblance to a real place would be pure coincidence.

It used to be called Beer&Pretzels , now it's more Wine&Cheese CM.

[mjkerner]

Hi Sarge,

I plan to make maps and scenarios for the fight for the Merderet River crossings at La Fiere and Chef-du-Pont, as well as the actions around Ste. Mere Eglise. I have a personal interest in the 82nd AB in and after WWII, but especially concerning the battles for the Merderet crossings. I assume the Game won't ship with maps and scenarios for the causeway fights, since there will be no French Renault or Hotchkiss tanks at least until a later module. (I'll have to use armored cars and halftracks, I guess, until we get French armor.)

I plan on at least two, maybe four maps (the max size in CM:BN is 4k x 4k). The two will be Ste. Mere Eglise and north of La Fiere to south of Chef-du-pont, but since I also want to cover Amfreville and the area west of Cauguigny, I may need 3 or 4.

I have some very good detailed sources. Phil Nordyke's excellent "All American- All the Way" about the 82nd in WWII, and his companion volumes specifically about the 504 PIR and 505 PIR; Robert Murphy's "No Better Place to Die"; and US Army maps of the area @ 1:25000. Another excellent source is Critical Hit Boardgames (Ray Tapio), whose initial gaming effort in 1999, Combat Normandy (before that game system went through some changes to become the Advanced Tobruk System---i.e. ASL-lite), has some very fine research and 27(!) scenarios covering just about every aspect of those battles.

I made a lot of scenarios in CMSF and its modules, but only for personal use, since I didn't spend alot of time fine-tuning the AI plans or victory conditions. I'm not sure that people will like my scenarios much, though. I am a firm believer in "what you get is what they had...so deal with it". I could give a rat's ass about scenario "balance" per se, only that the disparity between the forces in the real-life situation is reflected in the VP. Can your infantry platoon hold off an enemy company plus some armor for 15 minutes to allow the wounded to be evacuted? [100 points] No, OK, how about 10? [50 points]--you get the idea. So I will try to make the VP meaningful in relationship to the circumstances.

I've spent the last month honing my map and scenarios making skills on CMSF so that I'd be ready to go when CM:BN is released. I am so pumped for this game!

I agree, MikeyD...but I assume there will be scads of ahistorical ones that I will enjoy playing. It's just that I like to build the historical ones, because I love the research.

[purpheart23]

Not being a scenario designer myself, I can say that imho anything that plays balanced is good. Scenarios where you have to do every single move just right or there's no recovering just turn the gameplay experience to frustration. I'm not an expert cm player but I've had my fair share of battles and know when the odds are completely stacked against you. Keyholing infantry for one is a particularly gamey tactic used by mission makers that is a huge turnoff once again imho. So anything balanced and fun, i particularly look forward to all infantry matches in thick bocage.

[Sergei]

I think it really depends on your definition of fun.

Some people get more fun from accurate missions while they don't get "fun" from missions that focus on "FUN", whatever the definition may be.

I think Michael meant that the joy exacted from a scenario is not necessarily proportional to how historical it is. Eg. the original CMBO Beta and Gold demo scenarios were fictional but still largely representative and fun scenarios to play, for most folks anyway. But people's tastes vary greatly. I like both strictly historical as well as goofy slapstick scenarios, myself.

[Broadsword56]

For me, it's historical all the way. Satellite photos, period documents and Google Earth, etc., as sources, aimed at making a map as much like the real place as possible. My area of interest is mostly the US 19th Corps area: Vire River on the W to the Elle on the east, and from the La Mauffe-Rehouf line on the N to St Lo in the south. I'll have to see how the editor works and how hard/easy it is to get accurate landmarks, contours, etc., into a map. I'll be looking at battalion-sized battles, but because the fights were concentrated, some of them may be only 1 or 2 km square. But I'd rather make a 4 x 4 km map and then it would be more useful for people to cut portions out where they want to fight. Mapping quickly becomes addictive for me, so I have to make sure I keep plenty of time to actually play the game! So my maps may take a long time to finish -- I tend to be a perfectionist and I like lots of flavor atmosphere. My maps won't have any AI in them, since they'll be intended for PBEM or MP. But it would be great if anyone wanted to build AI scenario scripts into them later.

[mjkerner]

But it would be great if anyone wanted to build AI scenario scripts into them later.

Broadsword, I did that for my own use with a lot of the CMSF scenarios--reversed engineered them adding different AI plans, sometimes different assets, etc. I'll look forward to your scenarios, since mapmaking in CMSF/BN is no picnic, it's easier to tweak another guys hard work!

[panzermartin]

I love maps that look real and nice. No pool tables, no villages that look like lego land etc.

[Sergei]

I love maps that look real and nice. No pool tables, no villages that look like lego land etc.

But what if it's the invasion of Denmark?

[DaveyJJ]

For me? Until the Commonwealth forces come out in the expansion I'll be creating semi-historical, small scale battles. A lot of infantry stuff, with the occasional foray into tiny drabs of armour support. Tactics tactics tactics will win the scenarios. After the Commonwealth expansion hits it'll be Canadian skirmishes and battles from Juno onwards, starting with Putot-en-bessin and through to Operation Totalize etc. In both cases using historic maps and photos to generally get most stuff right (again, with some minor changes to maybe makes stuff a bit more fun), as well as unit accounts.

[panzermartin]

But what if it's the invasion of Denmark?

That would be in the CM: LGW "Legos go to War" module. Its still a couple of years away and I think CM:PFH "Playmobil's finest hour" comes first anyway.

[Sgt Schultz]

Here is just one of my probable map pack premises...

I stopped thinking Western Europe, and started thinking Northeastern USA.

Oh yes, the war went quite a different way in my little alternate history. Same units, just someone else is on the receiving end.

The Siege of Baltimore

Philly Under Fire

Jersey Shore Battery(Sgt Situation eats an 88 round)

The DelMarVa(google) peninsula is great tank country, and it leads from the Atlantic right to ...

Washington D.C. is ALL right angle and 45 degree streets... talk about made for CM map.

Tigers on the Mall

Panthers on the Potomac Bridges

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[benpark]

US Paras take Berlin.

[Stagler]

Ill be having a crack at making some maps for CMBN. I never played the original CM games but im sure I can come up with some imaginative maps of northern france for QBs. Now that the QB mode has been made more streamlined and accessible, I think that the maps I make for CMBN will be perhaps used more.

[LJFHutch]

I can make maps but certainly not AI plans or detailed info to go with it, just the map, and not really historical (well probably historical but not house for house). I make things that would be interesting tactically and/or look really cool

[bodkin]

As we're not going to see a CMAK 2, I'd like to see someone having a go at doing some Italian campaign scenarios if the editor can be fudged enough to make them believable.

[Sergei]

I don't think that Italy is totally undoable, although there might be some difficulties with TO&Es, but nothing unsurmountable. You can make 1km tall mountains in the editor, so you could build terrain that was impossible in CMAK. Then there's also Dragoon in southern France. There's a lot of potential historical scenarios that can be made with CMBN.

[dieseltaylor]

Historical all the way.! Some of the least successful scenarios I played CM*1 where historical. The problem lay in the game engine was not capable of producing the right result so beautiful accurate terrain and the correct number of tanks simply did not cut it.

I hope that designers work at their art and get the right feel before they embark on historical and then find some design features [!] make certain ideas unacceptable in game-play terms.

Each to his own but CM*1 scenario design does show what can go wrong.

[LongLeftFlank]

I'll be doing historical all the way, which is pretty much the only reason I game -- as an augment to the history.

[dieseltaylor]

Perhaps a specific case would be helpful in illustrating the point.

In CM*1 there was a detailed map and TOE for Wittmans last action. What really screwed the game was the inherent tactical AI would target vanilla Shermans rather than Fireflies for a possible higher % chance to hit.

This meant it would re-set manual targets and despite it being German practice to target Fireflies first as they could hurt kitties at range.

So basically the game engine queered the historicity. Whether this also applies in CM:BN I know not but the example remains true.

[Peter Cairns]

Well I am for accurate maps so what I look forward to is making maps of real terrain.

Living in the Highlands I have a lot of farmland woods and country roads so odd as it may seem I like to model places I can actually visit.

In part I am just a big kid playing soldiers in the woods beside my house.....

Peter.

[Magpie_Oz]

Is there a way to place a bitmap in the map editor?

What I am thinking here is to get an aerial photo, resize it to the correct scale and then in the map editor "colour it in" with the game terrain tiles.