Will more vehicles be added later?

[GhostRider3/3]

Just a question but will there be more vehicles added later, to provide more depth and flavour to the game.

example:

US 3/4 ton truck

German Horch (Larger then the Kublewagen and could actually carry about 8 men total)

German Horch 108 Type 1A

UK Otter

UK AEC Command Car

Will there be any fluff vehicles at all?

Ambulance

Radio vehicles

I know that they really do not mean much, but for scenerio designs etc they could be used as victory points etc? Probably not going to happen but I thought I would just throw that out there. As single vehicles they add just a tad of more emmersion... but I will not complain if I dont see them. However the Horch does add more to German Recon elements even if it was a mixed platoon between the Horch and Kublewagen. After all, the 1.5 ton Horch from (Auto union) was amongst one of the most common multi purpose vehicles... Just like the US have their MG Jeeps, could we not see a Horch with MG42? Again they were the most common on all fronts.

I guess you could always rename the vehicle, but then you would not see the brilliant detail of your artitsts etc.

[Noltyboy]

A Ketternkrad please :'(

[Michael Emrys]

US Weapons Carrier.

BTW, if you go to the parent page for that pic and click on "slideshow", there is a large assortment of war time vehicles.

Michael

[MikeyD]

As far back as I can recall Steve has rolled his eyes over the prospect of multiple types of soft skinned vehicles with overlapping capacities. On the battlefield they tend to be just differently shaped flaming wrecks. That's not to say they won't show up in a later module, I have zero knowledge on that subject. But if they do it'll be out of the goodness of Steve's heart rather than to fill a genuine tactical requirement.

[Broken]

Still plugging for the M12 155mm gun carriage for the US. There were several battalions of these at Normandy. Some of them were historically used for direct fire, either defensively or to breach fortifications.

One even engaged a Panther at point-blank range in the Ardennes, blowing the turret clean off.

[ChrisND]

They are planning to add cheaper "Battle Packs" at the end of each game Family, which is for odds-and-ends stuff. So extra superfluous vehicles would seem to fit in there.

[MikeyD]

Will there be any fluff vehicles at all?

Ambulance

Radio vehicles

The German army is lousy with radio vehicles already PSW 223, SPW 251/3, SPW 250/3.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

That's it, I want a Gulash Kanone!

Amen to the M12. The US specializes in boring vehicles, and the one thing that is not boring will not be included? No sir, that will not do.

And besides, we were "promised".

[Battlefront.com]

Purpose is the most important decision point for what vehicles/weapons we add. Ambulance? Add that and people will expect that we do explicit casualty recovery to give the vehicle a purpose. Since we don't intend on adding that functionality, putting in an Ambulance is out of the question. Same with vehicles that are used explicitly for such purposes as rear or higher levels of C2, engineering vehicles like bulldozers and bridgelayers, etc.

The second important decision is functionality. Do we really need to have a dozen different softskin trucks in the game when, as MikeyD pointed out, they just tend to smoke up the battlefield? Making an argument for a 3/4 WC makes a little sense in that it has a different passenger capacity than a Jeep or a Deuce and a Half, but does it really matter? And more importantly, what frontline formations used WCs? I didn't find any. These vehicles were used by rear support as far as I can see.

The third question to ask is if it is easy. Having 4 different flavors of a PzIV model is OK since it means only minor modifications to something we already have built. Sometimes the differences are so small, or internal, that we don't have to make a new model at all. Or at least we can reuse the LODs without modification. Adding an entirely new vehicle, however, must be carefully considered.

Lastly, is it a priority to add? Obviously it would be a bad idea to put low priority vehicles ahead of high priority vehicles, right? Now, if we really don't have any priority vehicles AND a particular vehicle makes it through all of the above, then that's a different story. Probablem is we usually have an extremely long list of priority vehicles.

We will have a Battle Pack, containing stuff that might normally fail the above tests, but I've got to tell you... if something basically flunks the above tests it's really got no chance of getting into the game. Especially the first test.

Steve

[YankeeDog]

Degree to which it actually appeared on the CM-scale battlefield aside, there might be modeling issues to depicting the M12. IIRC, the M12 had an earth blade in the rear that had to be deployed and anchored in the ground before it could fire. Without the earth blade, it lacked sufficient stance to absorb the recoil of the big gun.

I don't think the game has any kind of system that models something like this right now, though I suppose it might be possible to use the setup time feature used for things like tripod MGs and AT Guns (I assume, since CMSF already has this).

But there are details that need to be considered with a big SPG like that -- They can't dig the earth blade in on pavement or other hard surface, for example. They also usually need to deploy on pretty much level ground.

Not saying it wouldn't be fun to have a toy like that to play with. Just pointing out that M12 is really in a different weapons system class than the types of SPGs that are currently in the game (M7, SiGs, etc.), and there is some technical stuff that would have to be considered to get them properly depicted.

[Holman]

"Battle Pack"?

This is the first time I've heard this phrase in connection with CMx2. Is this different from the modules that will be coming (and that will include considerably more than just a few new vehicles)?

[Noltyboy]

"Battle Pack"?

This is the first time I've heard this phrase in connection with CMx2. Is this different from the modules that will be coming (and that will include considerably more than just a few new vehicles)?

The third "module" will be the "battlepack"

Dont know what else it will contain, but a few scenarios using the new vehicles wil be included im sure.

[Sergei]

Modules are centered around a common theme. For example, the 1st module will feature Commonwealth forces and German SS and FJ formations. The 2nd module will feature the forces and terrain needed for Holland. A battle pack, on the other hand, is not limited to a single theme.

[Erik Springelkamp]

Modules are centered around a common theme. For example, the 1st module will feature Commonwealth forces and German SS and FJ formations. The 2nd module will feature the forces and terrain needed for Holland. A battle pack, on the other hand, is not limited to a single theme.

But technically it is the same as a module, isn't it?

[Magpie_Oz]

I think the distinction is that a Module adds a whole package such as troops, vehicles guns, maps, OOB etc.

A battle pack might only add some tanks and guns that had previously been left out.

[c3k]

We NEED articulated trucks. The Redball Express cannot be simulated without them. Think of the ambush possibilities. How could the breakthrough at Stoumont during the Bulge be worthwhile unless there are fuel trucks waiting? And we'd need new animations: truck drivers grouped around the cab of a parked truck, having a smoke, and bitching.

[LongLeftFlank]

... And vanishing into a massive red animated fireball billowing up into the heavens because, well, they were smoking by a fuel truck. I Like It!

[Sergei]

But technically it is the same as a module, isn't it?

Yes. It just will differ from every module that we've seen for CMSF so far. Even CMSF modules had a few "bits and loose ends" not really connected to the main content of the module, like the T-90, BMP-3 or ZSU-23/4, while 99% of the modules consisted of the USMC/Brits/NATO. I would imagine that the battle packs will be like a module full of stuff like that. As such it probably won't have large main campaigns either - it's hard to make a credible campaign using eg. Renault tanks, Hummels and staff cars!

[Fetchez la Vache]

Renault tanks, Hummels and staff cars?

"The Parisian Job".

Okay, it was a Wespe, not a Hummel, that was used to engineer the traffic jam. And would need to work out how to have a separate skins for the tri-colour getaway Renault tanks. But it's do-able imo.

[MG TOW]

I always liked the german recon vehicles like the 233 or 234. They didn't make much of an impact on the war but they are fun to have in a game such as this. They can be very successful at times and others are knocked out straight away.

[gunnersman]

From the "Summary of Battlefront Game projects March 2011" thread.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=95267&highlight=Battle+Pack

More fun reading.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=94339

[Broken]

Degree to which it actually appeared on the CM-scale battlefield aside, there might be modeling issues to depicting the M12. IIRC, the M12 had an earth blade in the rear that had to be deployed and anchored in the ground before it could fire. Without the earth blade, it lacked sufficient stance to absorb the recoil of the big gun.

I don't think the game has any kind of system that models something like this right now, though I suppose it might be possible to use the setup time feature used for things like tripod MGs and AT Guns (I assume, since CMSF already has this).

But there are details that need to be considered with a big SPG like that -- They can't dig the earth blade in on pavement or other hard surface, for example. They also usually need to deploy on pretty much level ground.

Not saying it wouldn't be fun to have a toy like that to play with. Just pointing out that M12 is really in a different weapons system class than the types of SPGs that are currently in the game (M7, SiGs, etc.), and there is some technical stuff that would have to be considered to get them properly depicted.

In terms of digging in the earth blade on hard pavement, the same is true of emplacing almost any howitzer or gun on hard-pavement: the trail spades won't dig in. Is this modeled in CMBN?

Speaking of guns, the horse-teams to draw the German guns aren't modeled either. Yet the German 150mm field gun (and it's 50 rounds of ammo) were somehow mobile in CM1. I just assumed the horses were too hard to model and were abstracted away.

By the way, the M12 which killed a Panther in the Ardennes didn't have time to emplace it's plowblade: the two adversaries stumbled upon each other on a mountain road and the M12 got away the first shot.

[dieseltaylor]

By the way, the M12 which killed a Panther in the Ardennes didn't have time to emplace it's plowblade: the two adversaries stumbled upon each other on a mountain road and the M12 got away the first shot.

Is there anymore detail on this?

[leakyD]

Flame vehicles/fire and tank riders trump REMF stuff.

Let's stay focused, people.

[Michael Emrys]

I want MASH units with cute nurses.

Michael