E-License

[Moon]

A DRM that limits installations to 3 events is similar to one that limits installations to 4 events - they are similiar in that they limit installations. A DRM that limits installations to 3 events is more similar to one that limits installation events to 4 events than one that limits them to 10 events (because the numbers are closer in value) but all 3 share the similarity of limiting installations. If there is anyone else on this board who can't or won't understand what "similar" means, whether for rhetorical purposes or not I can't say, there isn't much else I can do to explain.

There is no need to explain this. I think everyone knows what you think. The problem is not with others but what you. What you think is factually incorrect. Our OAS does not limit installations to 3 or 4 or any other number. Installations are unlimited. What it limits is the number of additional activations you can do beyond the first 4 without contacting our support. And that limit is 1 per year.

Since everything else you you *think* is based on the same wrong assumption, it's equally incorrect.

Martin

[Sergei]

For instance, Arma 2 has something called FADE, that makes the accuracy of the weapons get extremely low if you play a pirated copy of the game.

This isn't really true. The ORIGINAL Operation Flashpoint, released in 2001, used FADE. Arma 2, released in 2009, does not.

[JSj]

This isn't really true. The ORIGINAL Operation Flashpoint, released in 2001, used FADE. Arma 2, released in 2009, does not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARMA_2#Copy_protection

[Sergei]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARMA_2#Copy_protection

FADE creates fake scratches in specific areas on the disk image. When the disk image is copied, the program used to copy it will notice these scratches and automatically fix them. The game's master program then looks for these scratches, and if they are present then it is an original. If they are not available, then it knows it is a fake.

Are you saying that it checks the hard disk for scratches?

[CharlieMike24]

Moon,

Thank you for your reply to my concerns. It's this personal customer service that makes me think that true customers won't have any problems.

Regards.

[JSj]

Are you saying that it checks the hard disk for scratches?

I have no idea how it works. I just know that there have been lots of people on the Arma 2 forums with problems because of FADE having triggered unintentionally on their purchased copy of the game. God knows how many people have not come to the forums, but have instead blamed the game as "buggy", stopped playing and recommended their friends not to buy it.

The point is, DRM problems are very bad PR, there has never been a DRM without problems, and there has never been a DRM that hasn't been cracked anyway. So, DRM:s mostly cause problems for paying customers, never to the pirates.

[JSj]

Moon,

Thank you for your reply to my concerns. It's this personal customer service that makes me think that true customers won't have any problems.

Regards.

Agreed. Having someone from the developers active on the forums is always a very good sign. Lets just hope that the concerns people have expressed with the DRM gets listened to.

I don't expect to have any problems either, especially since I don't reformat my harddrive that often. But I don't like DRM:s and I certainly don't like a DRM that limits how paying customers can use their computers.

[Rocky Balboa]

Moon,

Thank you for your reply to my concerns. It's this personal customer service that makes me think that true customers won't have any problems.

Regards.

Agreed, I think everyone concerned about this needs to step back and take a deep breath. Then think carefully about how this new OAS will work. Personally after careful consideration I can see the advantages of this over the old e-license system.

Also the fact that BF is a small publisher they can give more personalized customer service so any rare problems that might crop up should be able to be resolved.

[Fredrock1957]

Are you saying that it checks the hard disk for scratches?

Dang, my arse is starting to itch reading this thread.... maybe this thread will just FADE away...

[Moon]

The point is, DRM problems are very bad PR, there has never been a DRM without problems, and there has never been a DRM that hasn't been cracked anyway. So, DRM:s mostly cause problems for paying customers, never to the pirates.

No, the point is that some people out there stick fingers in their ears and shut their eyes and then shout out their opinions as loud as they can.

[Erik Springelkamp]

Lets just hope that the concerns people have expressed with the DRM gets listened to.

These concerns were not based on facts, so it is the concerned people who should listen.

[sfhand]

There is no need to explain this. I think everyone knows what you think. The problem is not with others but what you. What you think is factually incorrect. Our OAS does not limit installations to 3 or 4 or any other number. Installations are unlimited. What it limits is the number of additional activations you can do beyond the first 4 without contacting our support. And that limit is 1 per year.

Since everything else you you *think* is based on the same wrong assumption, it's equally incorrect.

Martin

From a practical point of view this is a distinction without a difference... It is pretty clear that you are trying to control unauthorized use of your software and I have no problem with that. However, you are doing it by activating what? (installations)

[WillLight]

sfhand, I think the point moon is trying to make is that once you activate, you can install and uninstall as many times as you want without activating again and using up an additional activation. Basically activating probably analyses your system, comes up with a unique ID representing your system and it's makeup (CPU, MB, GPU) and writes down an entry in the registry somewhere. You can then uninstall CMBN and install it again, and it recognises that this computer has already been activated. The distinction is that the computer has been activated to use CMBN and not the actual installation.

[Moon]

I don't know what sfhand is trying to say in his post, to be honest. He's right in one thing though: no matter how you call it (activations, installations), there is no hard limit for either. Not 3 times, not 4 times, and not any other hard number after which the key would expire.

And yes, WillLight. Once activated, a game remains activated on that PC (even if you uninstall it). However, if you reformat your entire drive, or if you modify your PC in a major way, you will be forced to reactivate (same as it works with eLicense, btw). This is a necessary precaution to prevent pirates from copying activated games and sending them around, obviously.

[sfhand]

I don't know what sfhand is trying to say in his post, to be honest. He's right in one thing though: no matter how you call it (activations, installations), there is no hard limit for either. Not 3 times, not 4 times, and not any other hard number after which the key would expire.

And yes, WillLight. Once activated, a game remains activated on that PC (even if you uninstall it). However, if you reformat your entire drive, or if you modify your PC in a major way, you will be forced to reactivate (same as it works with eLicense, btw). This is a necessary precaution to prevent pirates from copying activated games and sending them around, obviously.

I hope you understand that BFC's well being is near and dear to my heart. I have been a loyal CM customer and I have never violated the license agreement. When I've wanted to turn my friends on to CM products I bought them their own copies and have viewed CM as an excellent gift over the years.

On to my concerns...

I have been disabled since November and will be until August which means I am operating on a limited and reduced income. My desktop is getting long of tooth and I have been planning on upgrading it for some time now - incrementally due to financial considerations. My current plans are as follows.

Install CMBN on both desktop and laptop which means I will use up 2 activations.

Buy a windows7 3pack for my 2 computers and my wife's and do a fresh install on both of my machines. Net result using up 2 more activations.

If my understanding of the DRM is correct this leaves me having used up 4 activations (one per installation in this scenario) without ever having the software installed on more than 2 machines at any time, as per the intent of the license agreement.

And we haven't even gotten to the new motherboard and memory, new hard drives, new graphics card upgrades to the desktop and the potential graphics card upgrade to the laptop (a very flexible laptop). Even if I hadn't been disabled since November I might favor an incremental upgrade path just to float the cost by the department of war, er, my wife...

So, taking the above into consideration perhaps you can see why this new plan might make me nervous. I don't see any aspect of my plans as being out of the ordinary when I examine my computer hobby history.

I hope you can see, from this example, how a revoke tool could prevent both me and your customer support from drawing the wrong conclusions from each others statements and explanations when/if I need to ask for more activations. The simple fact is I never contacted BF or elicense customer support because I forgot to unlicense the software prior to changing my systems. Which means that I will be moving from one who has never contacted customer support due to an upgrade to one who most likely will. And I don't view buying another license as a viable alternative in this scenario

.

It would make me very happy to be told I have misunderstood how this is going to work, if that is the case.

Thanks for taking the time to read and consider this.

George

[Moon]

sfhand,

I am repeating myself, but let's try it one more time: you will not have any problems doing all these activations. And in the future, if you want to replace a hard drive or motherboard, you will be able to do it as well, because you will be able to add one activation to your key per year. You will not have to contact support for that, it's an online tool. It's just like a revoke tool except it's called differently

Martin

[Sixxkiller]

You guys are kidding right? Already mad at a licensing program that gives you 4 activations and you havent even used it yet. You guys need a cup of coffee, a hug, or a nappy. Some of you even complained about e-license for CMSF. Not like BFC doesnt have a right to protect its product from being pirated. Oh well cant please everyone I suppose. But unless BFC goes to a F2P format, you guys are gonna have to deal with some form of copy protection. Thats the reality and that will not change.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

You guys are kidding right? Already mad at a licensing program that gives you 4 activations and you havent even used it yet. You guys need a cup of coffee, a hug, or a nappy. Some of you even complained about e-license for CMSF. Not like BFC doesnt have a right to protect its product from being pirated. Oh well cant please everyone I suppose. But unless BFC goes to a F2P format, you guys are gonna have to deal with some form of copy protection. Thats the reality and that will not change.

F2P, now there is a solution to many problems. Like too many über kittehs in QBs. Want to use a kitteh? Pay up!

[DaveyJJ]

Oh for Bastet's sake ... let the guys get the darn copy protection/e-licencing thingy coded for OSX and get it out the door, then start complaining. Some of us aren't yet even in a position to complain and you guys are taking all our thunder. :eek:

[Grim.Reaper]

So with this new found information about the licensing, has it really impacted anybody's desire to purchase the game? It probably would have been nice to know about this at the time of the pre-order since I am guessing folks can't get their money back since your charged right away for pre-orders.

Me personally, not a big fan of this approach since like others stated, me playing a game should have no ties how I manage and configure my PC over time. I am all for protecting people's products, but should not come at the expense of dictating what I do to my personal property. I know others will say people shouldn't make these kinds of changes to their computers, but that is missing the point. Changing my computer should have nothing to do with playing this game, regardless of the reason I choose to.

Now in the end, I have already pre-ordered the game so even with this new information I will still move forward. I just hope this does not end up being a mess down the road for me.

[Moon]

You may be in for a rude awakening: every DRM out there fingerprints your PC when you activate a game (eLicense does this, too, there is no difference between it and our new activation system). This is the only way to ensure that a game, once activated, isn't simply distributed illegally.

[Her Klink]

I have bought 5 PCs in the last 20 years, so it's going to be difficult for me to get upset about this.

[born2lose]

I have bought 5 PCs in the last 20 years, so it's going to be difficult for me to get upset about this.

I upgrade every 2 years and I find it difficult to get upset about this as well, i do think a lot of these posts are being created to cause an argument and not because there is a genuine issue.

[JSj]

If the police were given the right to beat up colored people, I wouldn't say "I find it difficult to get upset about this, because I am white".

I'm not comparing the DRM to beating people up, I'm just saying that you can be upset about an unjust policy even if you're not personally affected by it.

Clearly, as is evident by what have been written in this thread, some people do upgrade or reinstall their computer systems frequently enough to be affected by the limited number of activations, and that is very wrong.

[LJFHutch]

And even if you're unaffected by it, there's still unease, you know, I just like security with my games is all :| 'Probably won't have any issues' isn't my cup of tea.