CanuckGamer Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I assume that CM Normandy will have an e-license. Any difference between the CD and digital download versions in regards to e-license? I am always wary of the various protection methods as I have read horror stories about DRM. Over at another forum, some people posted threads about how the DRM for a specific game had not only slowed down their PC but destroyed one of their drives. Anyway, I am curious as to how the e-license will work for CM Normandy? Another game I am interested in is TOW Kursk. Does this employ the same e-license that will be used for CM Normandy? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 We are now using a different copy-protection/DRM system with our new games, including CMBN. eLicense will remain in effect for older games, but going forward we will be using a new system we call 'Online Activation System'. It is different from eLicense and hopefully it will have fewer conflicts with security software, but we have seen some issues (it's almost impossible NOT to have issues or one sort or another with all of the available security programs). eLicense itself runs as a 'service' and it only takes up a little memory (less than 50KB, if I recall correctly). It shouldn't "destroy" anyone's system or cause any particular havoc since it isn't encrypting files or inserting itself in between the user and lower levels of the OS (at least on a system-wide basis). We even have a Knowledgebase article on completely uninstalling it (which is a bit of a manual process) - it only consists of a few files beyond the games themselves. The 'Online Activation System' is different and doesn't run as a 'service' in the way that eLicense does. Hopefully it will result in fewer security software issues, but it does have its limitations. The Online Activation System does NOT have 'unlicensing'. Instead you are given four (4) total activations and then every 365 days you can add an activation via our website, if you need one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 We are now using a different copy-protection/DRM system with our new games, including CMBN. Yay!!! The Online Activation System does NOT have 'unlicensing'. Instead you are given four (4) total activations and then every 365 days you can add an activation via our website, if you need one. Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger33 Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Instead you are given four (4) total activations and then every 365 days you can add an activation via our website, if you need one. Er, what happens if, say, a patch doesn't install right or something and we have to do a fresh install? I had that happen with CMSF where something went wrong and all my unit names were messed up (some had names like Stug III or Parachute, no idea what happened). And then recently an update to AVG decided that the NATO module was a virus and deleted it, prompting a fresh install. Besides that I plan to install the game on two PCs (laptop and desktop) so you can see where 4 becomes a rather uncomfortable number for me. Will you make allowances for those types of possibilities, or would I have to wait a year to play the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volodnikov Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I've had Flight Simulator payware that makes an entry in the Windows registry, allowing for many re-installs of FSX even though I've activated the payware only once. http://www.battlefront.com/helpdesk/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=188&ratingconfirm=1 Judging from this it seems to be PC-specific and not installation specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Ummm... this is a surprise. The beauty of elicense, for me, was that I could unlicense and then relicense without there being a finite number of licensing events available (other than the 2 allowed). So, the result was I could have a copy of the game on my desktop and my laptop, I wouldn't have to have the CD to play (I always get a CD), and if I needed/wanted to re-install the Operating System for any reason - it has happened a couple of times on both machines so far - I wouldn't bump into any "activation limits" if I remembered to unlicense - which I did. This new system, presents some potential problems in the above scenario, depending on how many times I wish or need to fiddle with my computer. Generally I don't buy software that limits activations unless there is a way to deactivate that resets the activation counter. So, the first, most obvious question I have is, will I still be licensed to install the software on 2 machines? Second question, are you willing to be more flexible on the number of activations (4 seems rather sparse for 2 machines)? Third question, are the yearly activations cumulative? Fourth question, are you willing to develop a deactivation tool to replenish the number of activations available to the software license holder? Thanks for considering these questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsF Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Maybe you should change this whole model from 1 activation per year to 1 additional activation per month, where no more than 1 activation has happened (similar to EAs current DRM, 5 activations with +1 per month). Well let's see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 Er, what happens if, say, a patch doesn't install right or something and we have to do a fresh install? Nothing happens. Uninstalling does not erase your license status, i.e. if you activate the game, uninstall, then reinstall, then the game will simply work. You will not have to re-activate (and hence will not use up another activation). To trigger a new activation you would have to make major changes to your PC and/or reformat the entire drive. The beauty of elicense, for me, was that I could unlicense and then relicense without there being a finite number of licensing events available (other than the 2 allowed). There is no finite number of licensing events with our new system, either, since you can add activations. The "pace" at which you can do this is restricted, but the number of activations remains infinite. This new system, presents some potential problems in the above scenario, depending on how many times I wish or need to fiddle with my computer. Generally I don't buy software that limits activations unless there is a way to deactivate that resets the activation counter. Then you must have a hard time finding companies that offer this, because other than eLicense there are not many systems out there that allow you to un-license and re-license a game. So, the first, most obvious question I have is, will I still be licensed to install the software on 2 machines? Yes, our EULA does not change. Second question, are you willing to be more flexible on the number of activations (4 seems rather sparse for 2 machines)? No. Third question, are the yearly activations cumulative? I don't know what you mean. Fourth question, are you willing to develop a deactivation tool to replenish the number of activations available to the software license holder? It's already there: You can add one activation per year yourself at www.battlefront.com/activate. This only works for games released after Jan 1, 2011. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 I might be reading this wrong but four total activations per year seems like it will cause a bit of stress for users who have to upgrade, format drives, replace pc's etc for what ever reason. What happens if I use up all four in the first year, does that mean I can only install it once a year after that? Will there still be an offline activation process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 ... Then you must have a hard time finding companies that offer this, because other than eLicense there are not many systems out there that allow you to un-license and re-license a game. ... Martin AFAIK I don't ususally buy games that use this type of DRM. I know Bioshock added a "deactivate" feature to a DRM scheme similar to this one after massive outcry on their forum. I'm all for you guys protecting your product but not at the expense of a license holder's unfettered access to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brittany_Spear Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 If this means we do not need the disc in the computer to play the game like we did for CMBO etc., I am all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodkin Posted April 9, 2011 Share Posted April 9, 2011 If this means we do not need the disc in the computer to play the game like we did for CMBO etc., I am all for it. The current e-licence already provides this for CMSF and CMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I don't know what you mean. He means that if you get the 1 additional activation per year, but don't use it, can you save them up? I'm not a fan of this new scheme since you are basically telling us how we can use our machines. It shouldn't matter if we want to reformat our hard drives 20 times a year or do major upgrades 6 times a year. Frankly, it's really none of your business, but with a system like this you make it yours. And yes, several of EA's games have featured de-activations. activate.ea.com/deauthorize I'd like to urge you to rethink your position on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRMC1879 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Nothing happens. Uninstalling does not erase your license status, i.e. if you activate the game, uninstall, then reinstall, then the game will simply work. You will not have to re-activate (and hence will not use up another activation). To trigger a new activation you would have to make major changes to your PC and/or reformat the entire drive. There is no finite number of licensing events with our new system, either, since you can add activations. The "pace" at which you can do this is restricted, but the number of activations remains infinite. Then you must have a hard time finding companies that offer this, because other than eLicense there are not many systems out there that allow you to un-license and re-license a game. Yes, our EULA does not change. No. I don't know what you mean. It's already there: You can add one activation per year yourself at www.battlefront.com/activate. This only works for games released after Jan 1, 2011. Martin Dont often post here and I dont have a problem with DRM as some people do. But frankly this just sounds Dumb. What for example is actually the point of increasing the activation count by one a year ? Thats seems to me a tacit admission that there are circumstances where you can run out - so if you do you have to wait till next year ? Stupid. So if I reformat my drive every two months and rebuild my machine (I have it down to a fine art) - battlefront are bascially telling me I cant do that any longer AND play the game I bought ? Stupid and arrogant. Moon - you need to be a little more polite and helpful in your responses ... we are after all .... customers remember. I have worn every DRM scheme thrown at me and this is the only one that has raised my hackles a little. If you are going to implement a DRM scheme - and I fully support that if its necessary - you HAVE TO - as a business - implement a solution for ALL difficulties a customer may face and have a remedy for them - its simply not good enough to tell them to go suck it up if something goes wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJFHutch Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Erh, seems a bit of a nasty system really Even Starforce is more lenient than that. 1 activation per year? That's really harsh. What was wrong with e-license? I liked that one better ... Edit: And what exactly is a "major" system change? A new CPU? Graphics card? Motherboard? Ram? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I hate all this DRM rubbish. If people like the product enough they will purchase it regardless of whether they pirate it first, even if it's just for the printed manual. I'd offer software without any copy protection at all, thus saving money in the first instance by implementing the DRM. I'm a system designer/builder and I've run into numerous problems with DRM activations - but mostly with E-License and CMSF! It just seems so unreliable to me. I've still got a problem with one install of Nato and the British/Marines bundle on my laptop, but I've given up requesting help on it because I was fed up with it! I was expecting E-License to be replaced but time will tell how effective this new system will be. DRM is a very unpopular move either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Hunter Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I do agree that protection is needed but limiting it to one additional activation per year is a huge let down. We must have a possibility to unregister on our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mies Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I'd have to admit that even on 1 machine I could do 4 re-installs of the OS a year. In that regard and with 2 machines in the mix it could be a bit tight to have only 4 activations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I'd have to admit that even on 1 machine I could do 4 re-installs of the OS a year. In that regard and with 2 machines in the mix it could be a bit tight to have only 4 activations. Maybe you should move away from Windows 98? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Hunter Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I do at least a Windows reinstall every 3 months. So for me it's 4 reinstalls for laptop and 4 for desktop per year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I do at least a Windows reinstall every 3 months. That is soo 20th century. Why on earth would you do that with the newer versions of Windows? Anyway, you know now that that will have a price. You could consider using a virtual machine for your experimental and dangerous work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tank Hunter Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 That is soo 20th century. Why on earth would you do that with the newer versions of Windows? Anyway, you know now that that will have a price. You could consider using a virtual machine for your experimental and dangerous work. That's not really the point. It is the paying customers that suffer due to stupid DRM rules and regulations. No matter what protection you throw out today it will be cracked sooner or later. If I buy the software I must be able to install it on my PC at any time or? Now BF dictates how I must threat my machine.. It is still my machine right?? If I want to change hard drive every three months shouldn't I be able to do so? To you it may seem stupid but I might have a good reason and why should anyone decide on how I should threat my machine?? Much bigger companies than BF have been trying to deal with protection and yet most have failed miserably. The only thing it does is to make life miserable for paying customers. Look around on some sim forums and you'll see. I believe most of the BF's customers are serious wargamers that more than gladly support BF and their games. I sure bought all my CM games. Restrictions should apply to pirates and NOT PAYING CUSTOMERS!!! Pirates will still play the game while we may not be able to.... E-licensing was a good option since it allowed for deregistration.. That's the only thing we are asking for. The ability to return our license back to a server. If BF feels that such an option would be expensive to them then please reconsider the whole license thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieMike24 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 I don't know if I'd use up 4 activations in 1 year - I haven't done with CMSF. But I know when I buy a product, I'd expect a guarantee and/or insure it. That way I have piece of mind that IF there were to be a problem, then I'm OK. Four activations a year does not give me the confidence I need from this product. Has there been any discussion as to why the accepted method (eLicence) has to change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRMC1879 Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 That is soo 20th century. Why on earth would you do that with the newer versions of Windows? Anyway, you know now that that will have a price. You could consider using a virtual machine for your experimental and dangerous work. You are probably in a minority of one - if you think windows operating systems still dont benefit from a re-install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted April 10, 2011 Share Posted April 10, 2011 Four activations a year does not give me the confidence I need from this product. Sheeesh, then don't buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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