CM:BN Pre-odered

[Moon]

The person getting it can, even by accident, use up all your activations.

And how many will you give back after all are used up and somebody calls service?

We don't give anything back anymore since Jan 1, 2011. Our new Online Activation System allows you to add activations to your key once per year without requiring contacting support.

[user38]

I pre-ordered two copies of the game in two separate orders. (I got charged S&H twice as I couldn't figure out how to combine the orders but I am fine with that.) The second one is for a friend who is computer illiterate. (I had to install WinSP on his Windows 7 PC because he couldn’t figure out how to unzip a zip file.) However, I myself am only barely computer literate and I have no understanding of how the license key copy protection works. I know all license keys do something to the windows registry and I understand that some of them are associated with a certain user name and user details and others to a specific PC. I think some of them also references a server data base as part of the unlocking process.

I received two emails, each with a unique license key: one for my game and for my friend's.

My questions:

1. If I install CMBfN via the CD do I need to unlock the game with the license key? Is the license key somehow embedded in the installation CD? (*edit: on rereading Moon's post I think the answer to this is yes.)
   
2. I know that I can download the CMBfN installation file to my PC, install the game and unlock it with my license key. But can I then copy that installation file to a thumb drive and install it on a second PC and unlock it with the second installation key? (Do I have to download the installation file over the internets to my friend’s PC?)
   
3. If I install via the downloaded installation file on my friend’s PC do I have to “register” the game using my name or my Battlefront log on details?
   

[Manx]

Just pre-ordered today. Can't wait!!

[Moon]

(I got charged S&H twice as I couldn't figure out how to combine the orders but I am fine with that.)

If you need two copies, you simply change the quantity you want to order on the order page itself. The default is 1, but you can enter more than that. If you forget initially, then you can also change the quantity in your cart during checkout.

I know all license keys do something to the windows registry

Not ours

If I install CMBfN via the CD do I need to unlock the game with the license key? Is the license key somehow embedded in the installation CD? (*edit: on rereading Moon's post I think the answer to this is yes.)

There is no difference between the game on CD and the game you download. It's the same exact game. The CD is only the medium to get it to you. You do not need the CD in order to play, only to install the game. After installation, both CD and download versions behave identically, and need to be activated with a valid license key.

I know that I can download the CMBfN installation file to my PC, install the game and unlock it with my license key. But can I then copy that installation file to a thumb drive and install it on a second PC and unlock it with the second installation key? (Do I have to download the installation file over the internets to my friend’s PC?)

You only need to download once. You can then copy the setup files you downloaded as often as you wish. They are not copy protected. You do not have to download anew each time you want to install, the same setup files will work as often as you need. This is one of the many advantages of our system over a DRM that is purely online activated/run.

In fact, copying the installation files is strongly RECOMMENDED. Your download will expire after 365 days after the first time you download, so having a backup is the only way to ensure that you can reinstall after that time. Your license key never expires, but your download does. If you have pre-ordered, btw, then you don't need a backup, since the physical goods are part of your order automatically, and ship via mail. (After pre-orders are over, you can choose Download&Hardgoods Delivery to achieve the same thing, although it will be $5 more expensive).

If you go "Download Only", then you should backup to a thumb drive, or external HD, or you can even upload the setup file to an online storage site (there is a number of free ones out there), for a poor man's Steam version of unlimited downloads (boy, my cheak hurts)

If I install via the downloaded installation file on my friend’s PC do I have to “register” the game using my name or my Battlefront log on details?

You do not need to register your game. The only thing you need is the license key. You don't need anything else and your game is not tied to your Battlefront account or any other personal information. That, too, is a major advantage over purely online based systems. You can in fact even sell your game later on to someone else. As long as you include a valid key, that person will be able to play the game.

Martin

[Tactical Wargamer]

Why the change from the courtesy of two licenses per order as in CMSF? OR did I miss something I guess it would increase sales......

What happens when your machine dies? I gave up when HD's have failed on my machine over the years. I have literally 3 paradox versions and one battlefront version of CMSF a total of what 8 possible licenses to run on 2 machines. Gets a little expensive sometimes

If you need to reload a machine the license is gone....... Is there a way around this guys?

[Moon]

Why the change from the courtesy of two licenses per order as in CMSF? OR did I miss something I guess it would increase sales......

If you missed something depends on what change you have in mind. Because the change is from 2 per license to (theoretically) 5 per license (although our EULA still only allows you two, though). The total of 5 is a sum of 2 base activations you always get, 2 "overflow" activations (if you have a problem, such as a HD failure), and then you get 1 additional activation per year, no questions asked.

What happens when your machine dies? I gave up when HD's have failed on my machine over the years. I have literally 3 paradox versions and one battlefront version of CMSF a total of what 8 possible licenses to run on 2 machines. Gets a little expensive sometimes

If you need to reload a machine the license is gone....... Is there a way around this guys?

First of all, you should not have bought more than one copy. If your machine dies, we can reset your key for you. There is no need to buy more than one copy, except perhaps if you have total HD failures every week.

The only difference really between eLicense and our new system, as far as the user is concerned is twofold:

- no more unlicensing. This has the advantage of never being able to forget to unlicense

- you can automatically add activations yourself at www.battlefront.com/activate should you ever run out. No need to contact our support for a reset anymore. This is limited to 1 per year, for obvious reasons I guess.

So, in your specific example, if you have an HD failure:

- you get 2 base activations to start with

- if you used those already, you get 2 overflow activations

- if you used those also already, then you can go to www.battlefront.com/activate and add one more activation to your key (unless you did that within the past 365 days already)

And if really everything fails, and you have a legitimate reason for an extra activation within the 365 day period, you can always go to www.battlefront.com/helpdesk and explain why. We won't grant every request (especially not if you make them every week ) but at the end of the day the licensing system is not there to deny paying customers their activations (even if they may sneak out a few more than they should), but to prevent uncontrolled widespread distribution of our intellectual property... and that isn't undermined by being flexible on the rules, if need be.

Martin

[Erik Springelkamp]

Now this will be seriously inconvenient for those people who want to reinstall their system every two months.

:-)

[Peregrine]

How many rage uninstalls am I allowed if my tigers don't average 10 to 1 kill ratios?

To add some useful information I have pre-purchased. Trying also to get every person I know that has ever played a computer game where something shot at something else to buy it as well.

[Redwolf]

So basically you never give keys back anymore but you get 4 installs plus 1/year?

Will this apply to CMBN and CMSF modules currently ordered?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

So basically you never give keys back anymore but you get 4 installs plus 1/year?

Uh... in the last paragraph Moon explicitly says they will be giving keys back, within reason.

*edit*

Ahhh, mis-understood you. Never mind me.

[Moon]

So basically you never give keys back anymore but you get 4 installs plus 1/year?

Will this apply to CMBN and CMSF modules currently ordered?

If with "give back" you mean "unlicense/relicense", then the answer is yes. Once activated, a key remains activated on your PC (until you basically reformat or make MAJOR modifications).

Our new activation system currently is only used in games released after Jan 1, 2011, i.e. Strategic Command WW1 The Great War, Theatre of War 3 Korea and will be used in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy. Anything else uses eLicense. We do plan to release a patch in the future for selected games that will convert a game from eLicense to our new system. Using it will be optional. There are however fewer compatibility problems in the new system with anti-virus software, security systems, UAC, DEP etc. (actually, so far there are no problems at all, except virtualization, but that's on purpose).

Martin

[Redwolf]

Uh... in the last paragraph Moon explicitly says they will be giving keys back, within reason.

*edit*

Ahhh, mis-understood you. Never mind me.

I meant "you" as in the user unlicensing, not "you" as in Moon/BFC.

[Redwolf]

If with "give back" you mean "unlicense/relicense", then the answer is yes. Once activated, a key remains activated on your PC (until you basically reformat or make MAJOR modifications).

Our new activation system currently is only used in games released after Jan 1, 2011, i.e. Strategic Command WW1 The Great War, Theatre of War 3 Korea and will be used in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy. Anything else uses eLicense. We do plan to release a patch in the future for selected games that will convert a game from eLicense to our new system. Using it will be optional. There are however fewer compatibility problems in the new system with anti-virus software, security systems, UAC, DEP etc. (actually, so far there are no problems at all, except virtualization, but that's on purpose).

Martin

Are you sure that's still worth the trouble, then? That's 5 licenses outright (you can request one right away, that's my understanding). Doesn't sound like much of a copy protection anymore.

[Moon]

That's 5 licenses outright

In theory, you are still bound by the EULA, however, which only allows you two at any one time, and provides the others as "overflow" if you lose one. But yes, people could abuse the system to some degree. This is true about License, though, or most other systems. We do have various means to stop this if we do detect possible abuse (keep in mind, we log each activation)... but I don't expect it to be a problem at all.

There is a balance to be found here between inconveniencing legitimate players and stopping uncontrolled distribution of our games. eLicense was very good in theory about this but in practical terms a lot of people forget to unlicense, so we end up with an inconvenience. Our new system is a bit more flexible upfront but retains the control just as well down the road. And it's that control that makes it still very much worth the trouble, yes (among a few other things that our new activation system provides which I don't want to go into detail about here).

[Redwolf]

Oh I'm not complaining.

So, for a setup like mine where there is a variety of PCs floating around and I'd like to be able to run on any of them, would you send the squad if I installed it on 4 of them outright (assuming it's all from the same IP address) and never use it on more than 1 at the same time?

In theory, you are still bound by the EULA

I was talking of actual pirates who want to give away an illegal copy.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I don't think that customers that "share" a legitimate copy with a friend is too big a worry for BFC, even if they rather have people not do it. The real problem is the anonymous usenet/P2P pirate and this seems a good solution against them.

[Redwolf]

I don't think that customers that "share" a legitimate copy with a friend is too big a worry for BFC, even if they rather have people not do it. The real problem is the anonymous usenet/P2P pirate and this seems a good solution against them.

Well that's the big elephant in the room. There are two kinds of developers and their reactions to piracy: those who only care about lost sales, and those who don't want their products used by people without paying, regardless of whether they would have bought it or not. A lot of wargame developers are in the latter category, and at least Steve has openly said he is.

That's unfortunate because it's very unlikely that any of the p2p pirates would have bought the game if it wasn't free. We are talking about a pretty hardcore wargame here. Sharing with other wargamers might be much rarer than p2p piracy but it will cost real sales, because the recipient might have bought it.

If BFC would only care about sales then just dropping all of that nonsense might be an option. TacOps doesn't seemed to have suffered from it (Major H is in the first category).

[Moon]

So, for a setup like mine where there is a variety of PCs floating around and I'd like to be able to run on any of them, would you send the squad if I installed it on 4 of them outright (assuming it's all from the same IP address) and never use it on more than 1 at the same time?

You're not allowed to do it. If you do it, you break the law. Will the police show up on your doorstep if you do? No.

I was talking of actual pirates who want to give away an illegal copy.

If you paid for it, it is not an illegal copy. Sharing with a friend has been possible with eLicense as well, and even though also not legal (not allowed by the EULA), this was also not enforced.

[Moon]

Redwolf, you are making some sweeping assumptions that do not seem to be based on anything real, other than your opinion. "a lot of", "very unlikely", "much rarer", "might have", "doesn't seem to". I don't agree with most of them, and have the luxury of hard numbers in hand to know for a fact that rest is incorrect, too.

We care about being paid for the hard work that we do. But we also care about good customer service. I am repeating myself, but again: there is a balance between these two that works for us, and that works for customers. There is no option to go full out on one end (we tried that in 2005-2007 before implementing eLicense protection, and it didn't work), and there is no option to go full out on the other end (because we simply don't want to adopt draconian DRMs or online sniffers). The sweet spot is in the middle, and we're right in it with our new activation system.

Martin

Well that's the big elephant in the room. There are two kinds of developers and their reactions to piracy: those who only care about lost sales, and those who don't want their products used by people without paying, regardless of whether they would have bought it or not. A lot of wargame developers are in the latter category, and at least Steve has openly said he is.

That's unfortunate because it's very unlikely that any of the p2p pirates would have bought the game if it wasn't free. We are talking about a pretty hardcore wargame here. Sharing with other wargamers might be much rarer than p2p piracy but it will cost real sales, because the recipient might have bought it.

If BFC would only care about sales then just dropping all of that nonsense might be an option. TacOps doesn't seemed to have suffered from it (Major H is in the first category).

[Magpie_Oz]

"those who only care about lost sales, and those who don't want their products used by people without paying, regardless of whether they would have bought it or not."

I do not understand what that is meant to mean, are you suggesting that BF want us to pay for it every time we run it? or are you suggesting that it is ok to give a game to someone who would not have otherwise bought it?

Why is that most people would not ever consider taking 2 stereos with them when they leave the electronics store having paid for one but those same people seem to think it is ok to use multiple copies of computer software in contravention of the EULA?

The amount of work that goes into these games and the number of people who buy them must make for some pretty slim margins I expect and I for one have no problem at all with paying for fair use and BF implementing what ever restrictions on it that their business model requires.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Redwolf is not advocating any form of piracy at all. He's just weighing the pros and cons of the DRM.

He has a point that the passing along of the spare installation probably has a higher ratio of sales loss then P2P. But I would think the scale on which the later happens is so vastly bigger that that should indeed be the priority. Especially since that has minimal impact on the legitimate customer.

Though I'm not sure how many people actually run it on two computers, be it in the same household but different users or same user on lap and desktop. I could well be persuaded that allowing two installations active at the same time does more harm then good sales wise. But it is a nice gesture by BFC that I certainly am not going to argue against.

[Gaff]

"one of my favorite games was M1 Tank Platoon" - User 38

I'm with you on that one - I spent HOURS playing that game (sometimes head-to-head with a null-modem cable if I recall).

The thing that made CMBO stand out for me were the "stories" that took place during the playback reel. All of those wonderful moments when things come together spectacularly, or crumble to bits horrifically. I experienced a lot of the latter. I know a fair bit about WW2 era weapons and battles but I am a terrible tactician.

I think one of the things that makes the CM franchise great is that I suck at it but I still love it.

Can't wait for Normandy.

[gnorffy]

I think one of the things that makes the CM franchise great is that I suck at it but I still love it.

Hear hear.

Is it the end of April yet?

[UsF]

Will we get a fixed release date at some point or will it be like "It's out tomorrow/now." I am still looking forward to planning my vacation a bit regarding the release.

[imij0607]

what's the benefit of preorder? do you get the game sooner by download. i really don't want the box or hard copy...