Summary of Battlefront Game projects March 2011

[WillLight]

Originally Posted by WillLight

I doubt that's gonna happen, even for the contemporary base games (e.g normandy and bagration). Assuming they keep improving the engine between releases, making the newest release work with the old content will be an effort that will not really be rewarding financially to them as people will have already bought the earlier base games and (understandably) not be willing to pay too much to be able to combine the content...

If it was possible id like to see them upgrading the other ones via patches so CM:BN would be on the same as the CM:Bagration.

They have sort of done this already with CMSF and its modules. As far as I was aware you could make missions with all the sides across the modules..... thats essentially what I would want to continue with CMBN and subsequent addons.

They keep updating the core engine and features for all modules while the modules themselves determine what forces\campaigns you have to play with.

Oh, sorry mate, I thought you meant being able to make missions across games, not across modules within a game. That they have definitely said will work and has worked in CMSF. I meant you probably won't be able to make a mission with some forces from CMBN and some from CM:Bagration, for example.

[scottie]

Never really understood the fascination with the Eastern front. What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much ?

[Noltyboy]

Never really understood the fascination with the Eastern front. What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much ?

Awesome films like Stalingrad and iron cross. Plus Sven Hassel books!

[WillLight]

Never really understood the fascination with the Eastern front. What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much ?

Maybe because it hasn't been so romanticised as anything involving the US has, makes it seem more grimy and real, dunno... Anyway, that's where the "bulk" of the war was fought and as someone who likes history, that's where the main interest lies.

[scottie]

Never watched Stalingrad but will make a point of looking our for it , did read a VERY large book on it though aptly named STALINGRAD Personal preference but the open steppe for fighting battles in CMBB didnt do it for me , CMAK CMBO however i enjoyed the small villages and hilly terrain. Just found CMBB very bland. I guess most of media i have read watched when i was young was Western Front too so my imagination was all based around this side of things.

[scottie]

Maybe because it hasn't been so romanticised as anything involving the US has

Agree , has to be something to do with that.

[aka_Hawk]

Never really understood the fascination with the Eastern front. What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much ?

• Very diverse terrain, not just the open steppes from popular culture
• Lots of sexy hardware
• High degree of development in strategy and tactics throughout the war
• Simply the way the war progressed
  

Well, that's some of the reasons from the top of my head.

[Sergei]

Maybe because it hasn't been so romanticised as anything involving the US has, makes it seem more grimy and real, dunno... Anyway, that's where the "bulk" of the war was fought and as someone who likes history, that's where the main interest lies.

Oh I dunno about that, I think it has been romanticized a plenty, both by West German historians relying heavily on German accounts as well as Soviet official histories. But it hasn't been tainted by the Hollywood as much, and it's the entertainment like films and comic books that instill the first impression of a war on most of us. Many old school war flicks such as A Bridge Too Far, while showing the gritty, bloody reality of war, also had that uplifting atmosphere in them, especially in the musical score and the type of humour. Contrast this to German or Russian films, like Stalingrad.

Anyway, the sheer scale of East Front means that there is something for everyone. Whether it is fast paced tank battles in the steppe, WW1 type trench combat, fierce city fights, partisans skulking in the woods, air drops, marine landings, anything you name, it happened during the war between Germany and Soviet Union, and between 1941 to '45 both armies changed drastically.

[stikkypixie]

Never watched Stalingrad but will make a point of looking our for it , did read a VERY large book on it though aptly named STALINGRAD Personal preference but the open steppe for fighting battles in CMBB didnt do it for me , CMAK CMBO however i enjoyed the small villages and hilly terrain. Just found CMBB very bland. I guess most of media i have read watched when i was young was Western Front too so my imagination was all based around this side of things.

Check out the World at War episodes on the Russian front

[Erwin]

"What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much?"

This may be a throwback to cardboard wargame days b4 computers when everyone wanted to play the Germans "in their prime" stomping all over other countries.

In the Western Front, other than the (incredibly popular topic for gaming) Ardennes Offensive, the Germans were on the defensive. There were a fraction of Western Front games compared to Eastern Front topics.

I am quite serious that one used to have to bribe players to play any Allied side. All the games seemed to be designed for max fun for the German side. They always had the more interesting variety of powerful units, while the Allies seemed to be composed of generic cookie counter units.

I would say that even CM1 reflects that "prejudice" to a small degree. I personally still enjoy the CM1 Axis side more. Their units are just more interesting.

I think this started to change when RT FPS's set in WW2 appeared for the non-grognard mass market. Suddenly, nearly all the games were from the Allied (primarily US) POV.

[Michael Emrys]

I think you may be on to something there, Erwin. About 30 years ago I was interviewed by the local newspaper regarding my wargaming hobby, and one point I made was that I liked playing the Germans not because I was a closet Nazi, but because in the games they had more interesting problems to solve. Usually it was the Allies who just had to hang on and slow things down as much as possible, while the Germans were assigned the more dramatic task of making and exploiting breakthroughs.

Michael

[MengJiao]

"What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much?"

This may be a throwback to cardboard wargame days b4 computers when everyone wanted to play the Germans "in their prime" stomping all over other countries.

In the Western Front, other than the (incredibly popular topic for gaming) Ardennes Offensive, the Germans were on the defensive. There were a fraction of Western Front games compared to Eastern Front topics.

I am quite serious that one used to have to bribe players to play any Allied side. All the games seemed to be designed for max fun for the German side. They always had the more interesting variety of powerful units, while the Allies seemed to be composed of generic cookie counter units.

I would say that even CM1 reflects that "prejudice" to a small degree. I personally still enjoy the CM1 Axis side more. Their units are just more interesting.

I think this started to change when RT FPS's set in WW2 appeared for the non-grognard mass market. Suddenly, nearly all the games were from the Allied (primarily US) POV.

I think a lot of things happened to make the allies somewhat interesting to play. People got tired of completely stereotyping both armies. People got tired of not having any allied players. Some historical sophistication seeped in here and there and it became possible to imagine the allies as having some interesting aspects and problems even if you had to dig a little to find them or even add more factors to the games and move them a little closer to simulations where the friction and variability of war gave the allies the chance to escape the ideal world where they were always defeated and somehow approach the real world where they ultimately won.

[WillLight]

"What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much?"

This may be a throwback to cardboard wargame days b4 computers when everyone wanted to play the Germans "in their prime" stomping all over other countries.

In the Western Front, other than the (incredibly popular topic for gaming) Ardennes Offensive, the Germans were on the defensive. There were a fraction of Western Front games compared to Eastern Front topics.

I am quite serious that one used to have to bribe players to play any Allied side. All the games seemed to be designed for max fun for the German side. They always had the more interesting variety of powerful units, while the Allies seemed to be composed of generic cookie counter units.

I would say that even CM1 reflects that "prejudice" to a small degree. I personally still enjoy the CM1 Axis side more. Their units are just more interesting.

I think this started to change when RT FPS's set in WW2 appeared for the non-grognard mass market. Suddenly, nearly all the games were from the Allied (primarily US) POV.

That's a pretty good observation. At the FPS level the germans don't really have anything fascinating (well except for the MG42) and US based players would probably not want to be shooting down american soldiers "face to face". At the operational level, or even squad level where vehicles come in to play, german player has lots of cool stuff and there isn't that low down and dirty feeling of an FPS.

[Rayak47]

The allies had some great battles, I can't wait to re-create those classic historical battles from "Kelley's Heroes," not to mention "The Battle of the Bulge", as long as the game includes M-60's and M-47's with German markings!

[Sequoia]

The allies had some great battles, I can't wait to re-create those classic historical battles from "Kelley's Heroes," not to mention "The Battle of the Bulge", as long as the game includes M-60's and M-47's with German markings!

The final battle from the Battle of the Bulge movie was already done in CMBO but no one could actually play it. I really doubt there were M-60s in the movie however. Lots of Chaffees though.

[Rayak47]

Yeah but no paint rounds for the Kelly's Heros scenarios! I think I'm I'm mixing it up with "Patton." In in the Bulge movie, the U.S. used Chaffees, I'm pretty sure it was M-47's for the Germans.

[Cid250]

Looks pretty accurate to me! For Bulge we are currently planning:

Module 1 = Commonwealth

Module 2 = Spring 1945

Module 3 = Misc. stuff

As for the content of Module 3 it's similar to the way we're planning Module 3 for CM:BN... we're keeping it flexible until we get to it. For the Bulge's Module 3 I could see things like Volkssturm, E-100, Pershing, IR Panthers, etc.

Steve

Don't forget the Infantry's first infra-red devices, for example the ZG 1229 Vampir (Vampire):

Crews of infrared night-vision devices mounted vehicles were also armed with MP44 / StG 44 assault rifles fitted with infrared night-vision device - ZG 1229 Vampir (Vampire). Only small number of IR sets forassault rifles was produced.

[Cid250]

Never really understood the fascination with the Eastern front. What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much ?

Because it was the main battlefield of WWII.

The war was really won on that scenario. All other fronts of WWII were of a secondary scale in weapons, and men by a wide margin.

WWII was about who wins in the eastern front "mainly".

[Asmodeus]

Never really understood the fascination with the Eastern front. What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much ?

Quite few around here understand (eastern europe) the fascination about everything concerning WWII is objected towards western front/emericans, Normandy and so on.

Now that you mentioned, I just had to share my point here.

[Abrams]

CM has always been gaming nirvana for me, but if CMx2 had the E-25/E-50/E-75 and other late war goodies as above, then I would be happy beyond words.

WWII 1945-'46 would be interesting ...

M26 Pershings and T28s vs Maus and E75s ...

great fun !!

[Abrams]

Never really understood the fascination with the Eastern front. What is it about the Russian front (and CMBB i guess) that players like so much ?

Agreed ... I don't "do" Eastern Front gaming ...CM:BO keeps me busy and the new CM:BN is exciting news ...

[LongLeftFlank]

Don't forget the Infantry's first infra-red devices, for example the ZG 1229 Vampir (Vampire):

Wow, that looks like one of those mail order ads from a 1950s comic book.

Kids! Shoot your lovable playful Sea Monkeys® at night!

Or - to heck with Charles Atlas "Dynamic Tension"®, you'll be Big Man on the beach (or school book depository) with this rig!

[gunnersman]

Don't forget the Infantry's first infra-red devices, for example the ZG 1229 Vampir (Vampire):

Crews of infrared night-vision devices mounted vehicles were also armed with MP44 / StG 44 assault rifles fitted with infrared night-vision device - ZG 1229 Vampir (Vampire). Only small number of IR sets forassault rifles was produced.

Is that a hand cranked generator?

[Bradley]

Sadly never knew there was a 'Russian Front' until I picked up the game Panzer Blitz and read the back of the box. Every WWII movie I'd ever seen there was virtually no mention of the Eastern Front. It was not taught in my History classes to my memory. But I was immediately intrigued by it. The concept Germans vs. Russians became far more interesting than what the Western Front had to offer. Factor in the enormous scale of it and I was sold completely.

[Broadsword56]

Wow, that looks like one of those mail order ads from a 1950s comic book.

Kids! Shoot your lovable playful Sea Monkeys® at night!

Or - to heck with Charles Atlas "Dynamic Tension"®, you'll be Big Man on the beach (or school book depository) with this rig!

ROTFLMAO! You just made me flash back to a (very) early wargaming disappointment I had after swallowing the bait in one of those comic book ads: Action battle set with hundreds of authentic Revolutionary War soldiers! Stunning lifelike combat poses! (etc.). The set of miniatures turned out to be VERY miniature, comprising blue and red silhouettes of vaguely recognizable Rebels and Redcoats in brittle, 2-D plastic. Oh, and the final insult was that the mold-seam along the bases of the soldiers made it impossible for most of them to stand up.