Apocalypse 31 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 One thing that kind of annoys me are the machine gunners. They fire 1-3 round bursts of MG. Lets hear a damn MAN-BURST. Seriously...you cant consider yourself a man/Soldier if you're firing 1-3 round bursts at a long interval while manning the M240B...lets not even start with the M2HB...you need to get up there and FIRE the damn weapon.. a full, loud, and long burst. Enough to know that you've killed the guy you're shooting at, and the guy behind him. Ok . I'm done. How's everyone doing? I'm in lovely Diyala Province, Iraq. Hey I'm a Captain now, can I get a name change to CPT Mike? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindry69 Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Hey congrats on your promotion! I recently read a book on Iraq called "The Gamble" pretty interesting stuff. Stay safe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I don't think CM models punching pointless holes in the sky. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Are u a Mexican with a love of wasting ammo in the sky and do u like man-boobs lol But I hear you..... 50 rnds RAPID! FIRE! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I wholly agree. MG bursts are all so textbook. If there is one thing a soldier likes it's a long burst of automatic fire. I think vehicle MG bursts have been bumped a little ove time but infantry MG bursts are still pretty wimpy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1A1TC Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Hey Cpt Mike Just found out my unit is going to Iraq soon. We will be manning land-based CIWs "R2-D2" (C-RAM) weapons, shooting down incoming missiles. Have you seen those over there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destraex Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 I actually don't mind it being text book though. Makes a refreshing change from the gung ho games out their who think their ammo will last forever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 We currently have ROF tied to Experience and, IIRC, Morale. Poorer Experienced and shaken up units tend to let fly. The thing is that situation is rarely seen on the Blue side. I'll pass along the suggestion that Charles make it a bit more random, though tending to stick to the general principles that a better trained, higher Morale gunner is more likely to follow doctrine than just spray and pray. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 How about tying it in to incoming fire? As long as you're feeling safe and confident, textbook bursts are easy. Once you're taking incoming rounds, a bit of adrenalyn keeps that trigger back a bit more. If it's tied into Experience and Morale, perhaps strengthening the Morale input would help. (If morale goes down (due to incoming fire) fire discipline, e.g. 1-3 round bursts, goes out the window.) Does target type matter? If my MGer is Area Targeting, would a few more rounds help? Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 SQUEEZE the trigger surely. 4th principle of marksmanship and all that ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted October 1, 2009 Share Posted October 1, 2009 Area fire? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 I have noticed in v1.20 that SAW gunners do fire longer bursts, and I have seen M240 gunners firing 5-8 round busts, but usually against targets in the open. It makes a big difference wether the gun is deployed or not. When deployed, M240 usually fires 5-8 round busts. When not deployed it fires very short bursts, usually only 3-4 rounds. I haven't noticed any significant difference between area fire, or aimed fire. If you can guess, one of my favorite parts of CMSF is watching the machinegunners. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 We currently have ROF tied to Experience and, IIRC, Morale. Poorer Experienced and shaken up units tend to let fly. The thing is that situation is rarely seen on the Blue side. I'll pass along the suggestion that Charles make it a bit more random, though tending to stick to the general principles that a better trained, higher Morale gunner is more likely to follow doctrine than just spray and pray. Steve I think a more realistic depiction would be the gunner tending towards longer bursts until his target is pinned or retreating (vehicle), then reverting back to sustained rate of fire. It's low pri though, MGs are already fairly good at taxing the player who lets MGs get shots in at 50-700 meters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 A bad quality cellphone example of a GPMG firing during training shows short, disciplined fire on targets in the open at fairly close range. As far as I'm aware this gunner handled things as he was supposed to. I do agree with Apocal that sounds reasonable. However, I think we should still have situations of ammo dumping by scared/undertrained soldiers. That presents tactical problems for the side firing! Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 However, I think we should still have situations of ammo dumping by scared/undertrained soldiers. That presents tactical problems for the side firing! Oh yeah, certainly, never disagreed there. Though I see how you could've read it that way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 2, 2009 Share Posted October 2, 2009 SQUEEZE the trigger surely. 4th principle of marksmanship and all that ... Nah, "pull the trigger" is fine since 20+ round bursts have nothing to do with marksmanship or fire diss anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocal Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Nah, "pull the trigger" is fine since 20+ round bursts have nothing to do with marksmanship or fire diss anyway. Has a lot to do with fire superiority though. Some people think that ranks pretty high. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietrich Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Nah, "pull the trigger" is fine since 20+ round bursts have nothing to do with marksmanship or fire diss anyway. Has a lot to do with fire superiority though. Some people think that ranks pretty high. If a 20+-round burst is aimed at a single spot, it's probably inordinate, even factoring in relatively wide CEP on account of recoil and such. If a 20+-round burst is combined with traverse and/or elevation so that the rounds hit an area which may (or may not) contain multiple enemy personnel, then it's more probably worthwhile. Then again, CMSF doesn't model sweeping fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Nah, "pull the trigger" is fine since 20+ round bursts have nothing to do with marksmanship or fire diss anyway. Does it have anything to do with morale? This is how I read the original post - blokes happier that some at least some of the lead is outgoing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Good discipline and good morale are NOT antithetical. In fact, the latter is dependant on the former. Also, fire superiority (aka "winning the firefight") isn't often achieved by punching holes in the clouds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Good discipline and good morale are NOT antithetical. In fact, the latter is dependant on the former. Heh, what was it the Marine Commandant said? "The floggings will continue until morale improves." Also, fire superiority (aka "winning the firefight") isn't often achieved by punching holes in the clouds. No argument there. But a building occupied by unseen baddies should be liberally dosed first up to achieve suppression, then periodically topped up, no? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Punching holes in clouds? What poor MG gunnery were you used to?! Long bursts have their uses even for a high morale, high discipline unit. It's a way to assert dominance. I sense a belief that bullets should kill. And that's great in theory, but convincing someone that they should stop shooting and be somewhere else comes a very close second and is a lot easier to achieve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Then again, CMSF doesn't model sweeping fire. It depends for what. For example, I had a 1.20 game recently where I ordered a LAV to "Area Fire" on a building that had four windows. The LAV then proceeded to hose the entire wall, sweeping from left to right, firing at each of the windows for 5 seconds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secondbrooks Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Good discipline and good morale are NOT antithetical. In fact, the latter is dependant on the former. Also, fire superiority (aka "winning the firefight") isn't often achieved by punching holes in the clouds. Hmm... What was it called: Final defensive fires? The phase when enemy has got into charging distance and is trying to get as fastly as possible to defender's neck. Like Elmar Bijlsma seemed to suggest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted October 3, 2009 Share Posted October 3, 2009 Yeah, and that's the sort of stuff we should tweak a bit more. Having said that, JonS' perspective is about what is normal vs. what is perceived to be normal. At least for a well trained gunner. Normal is disciplined bursts, abnormal is letting fly. The latter is either because the gunner gets a bit unnerved or because it's a situation where the gunner thinks "I'm going to die unless I do something dramatic". All training does is condition the gunner to tell the difference between the two. A poorly trained gunner thinks drama is always called for Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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