Place your bets on the Front

[Cpl Steiner]

Originally posted by Ivan Drago:

That's not a very clear statement. Martin is quoted as saying that yes, they will revisit WW2 but doesn't specifically state that it'll be the first and 2nd game with the new engine.

'After we finish working on the new engine' could be interpreted as the first game, or as the 3rd or 4th game with the new engine. Really can't tell for sure from that one quote.

I admit it isn't clear whether the two year time frame mentioned is for the engine to be complete or for the Western and Eastern fronts to be revisited. However, it would not seem very logical to go away from WWII for the first two releases and then return to it later, because of the modular aspects of the new game system. I would have thought they would put out "CMx2: Western Front" and "CMx2: Eastern Front" first, so they could add modules to it as they were working on "CMx2: Arab-Israeli Wars" or something.

[aka_tom_w]

I REALLY hope the second game for the new engine is ETO after D-Day.

By that time they "should" have tweaked the engine enough to give us a really great CMBO sequal in the ETO on the new CMx2 engine.

For CMx2 Round one I am thinking Korea 50-53 or the Arab-Isreali wars in the 48- 49 or the Six day war or something else from the 60's.

Korea 50-53 would be a good guess for the CMx2 first title.

(maybe)

-tom w

[dumrox]

Good point, Tom. CMBB had so many little improvements over CMBO that I wouldn't mind seeing a CMx2 CMBO as a 2nd release.

[Soddball]

Originally posted by CanadaGuy:

I cannot believe that we missed it. I met Steve at a gamers convention and he said that it would actually be the first war, i.e. two cavemen, but it would take a long time to complete because they wanted to model each hair on the mammoth togas as accurately as possible.

And you would hate to hear what the grogs have to say about that.

[hellfish]

One of the reasons I think CMx2 might have a post-WWII game for one of the first releases is that it's a good way of showing what the engine is capable of - ATGMs, thermal sights and other high-tech stuff are a lot more complex to model than standard optics and rockets limited to 100m range. It'd be like saying "Look what we can do with this, now imagine what we can do with our next release."

[Barrold]

However, the reverse could also be true. They may wish to "prove" the concept with a stunning WWII release and then build upon the features once the system is past it's shakedown cruise.

BDH

[MikeyD]

BFC seems to hold their collective noses whenever Cold War theaters are mentioned. I don't know why, but they do. Also, Matt used to be dead set against doing a Pacific WWII theater but he lately seems to be weakening on this a bit. Still, they claim not to have gone too far into the game engine's abilities with water, which would make beach invasons unlikely. Early War was originally part of their 5 year plan (formulated well over 5 years ago). I don't know if they're not saying a peep about early war makes it more or less likely that they'd go that way. After all, if they're into secrecy and security wouldn't they be throwing out red herrings?

My conclusions? I'm sticking with Early War (emphasising Brits to keep their English speaking audiance). But I won't be shocked if I'm wrong.

[Cpl Steiner]

The problem with Early War for a first module (i.e. the module that comes with the first actual game) is that the Germans won. I know this may sound like a petty consideration from a wargaming point of view, but from a marketing point of view, would you really want to flog a game portraying the triumphant Nazi overrun of Western Europe in the Blitzkrieg of 1939-40?

And how would this keep the British happy? Dunkirk was the British Army's biggest military disaster virtually in it's entire history. British memories of the early war are about the heroic "little boats" crossing the channel to evacuate British soldiers trapped at Dunkirk, and the subsequent Battle of Britain air war, not the actual fighting in France, which of course we lost.

[PAEZ]

The fact that BFC will be adding modules does point to an early period. Yes maybe WWII but I was thinking that they could easily start with

Iraq or maybe even Vietnam. There is plenty of talk on buildings and such.

We'll know soon enough .....

[Battlefront.com]

And how would this keep the British happy?

Quite true. Dunkirk was an amazingly effective retreat, not anything militarily worthy of note in and of itself. The rear guards fought some pretty heroic battles, but that's all they were... rear guard actions.

Plus, if we don't want to alienate our English speaking audience we'd better not exclude WWII American forces. It is a well known fact that Americans aren't even aware that the British fought in WWII at all, so by saying the game is "Early War" the average American thinks of French. And it is a well known fact what the average American thinks about them

Steve

PS. I'm not really serious about what I just said. I was half kidding

[Bigduke6]

Meaning Matt is half serious as well. Hmm....

[Ivan Drago]

Would be nice to know for sure a month ahead of the CGW magazine article expose, due to be released at the end of this fine month of October.

Meaning, sometime this weekend

[MikeyD]

Hmmm... it sounds like CM's making slightly discouraging noises about an early war release. So much for Char BIS tanks battling Cz38Ts! ...unless Steve was just sowing more 'disinformation'.

Y'know, if BFC limits itself to just aspects of world history that the American public of gaming age is familiar with that REALLY restricts theater choices! Look up 'ignorant' in the dictionary and you'll find a photo of an average American teenager. But maybe they're right - for example, CMBB was unprescedented in scope, historical depth, and playability, but I lost count of the number of gamers who turned their noses up at CMBB simply due to lack of American voices among the troops. For the rest of us CMBB was not only a great game, it was a great history lesson as well. Lets hope BFC's temptation to go for the easy money with lowest-common-denominator products is offset by the fun and challenge of producing something original and unexpected.

... but then again, easy money does sound awfully tempting

[Michael Dorosh]

MikeyD, the game is the thing, not the setting. I loved Operation Flashpoint not because it was set in the Cold War with Russian badguys circa 1980, but because the environment was so immersive and the gameplay was well done.

Will be the same with CMX2 I suspect, at least for the original title.

Frankly, who cares which nationalities or theatre it will be? I'll buy the first one regardless.

[PseudoSimonds]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

Y'know, if BFC limits itself to just aspects of world history that the American public of gaming age is familiar with that REALLY restricts theater choices! Look up 'ignorant' in the dictionary and you'll find a photo of an average American teenager. But maybe they're right - for example, CMBB was unprescedented in scope, historical depth, and playability, but I lost count of the number of gamers who turned their noses up at CMBB simply due to lack of American voices among the troops. For the rest of us CMBB was not only a great game, it was a great history lesson as well. Lets hope BFC's temptation to go for the easy money with lowest-common-denominator products is offset by the fun and challenge of producing something original and unexpected.

... but then again, easy money does sound awfully tempting

So quick to judge them on a game they haven't even announced the setting of. If you're so much more enlightened than your average American, you won't care what theatre CMx2 takes place in now will you.

I would've thought Americans are too brainless and ADD-ridden to be interested in this type of game anyway.

[MikeyD]

"I would've thought Americans are too brainless and ADD-ridden to be interested in this type of game anyway."

Me, I had the benfit of growing up right on the border of Canada, and was positively influenced by it proximity

Besides, I believe BFC's 'official' birthplace is the great state of Maine too.

Mr. Dorosh has a good point. The theater's just the window dressing. Witness CMAK-normandy, CMAK-Sealion, CMAK-Israel 1947! I've tried a couple 'shoooter' games that were set in the ideal theater of war, but the game engine stank to high-heaven. Quick to judge? Me? When we find out the first release is going to be set on Mars colony I'll probably be the one on the board yelling least!

[Snow Leopard]

Originally posted by Sequoia:

That ends the War Comedy Trilogy. Notice there were no war comedies about Viet Nam. World War II and Korea were funnier I guess.

I wonder if "China Beach" have any comedy in it or dark one?

I was thinking of "I dream of Jeannie" even it not much show Vietnam theme but in same year.

Finally one, One of show that always on tv show when I was little kid and always see boot camp Sgt. yell at goof-off soldier all time....Guess what? "Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C." I found a interest line when I checked that website for Vietnam comedy theme to confirm my suspect.

"CBS executives ordered that Pyle remain in training indefinitely, and not be sent to the Vietnam War, to preserve ratings" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomer_Pyle

and good website about Gomer Pyle http://www.timvp.com/gomer.htm

I bet some of you get weird sudden flashback to past to time we saw it on tv. I never forget that one.

Cheerful

Snowleopard

[Brent Pollock]

...so...China or Spain then, with the latter getting the smart money because flippin' EVERYBODY was in there and it ain't PTO

Originally posted by Baneman:

Winter War would be good, but my money is on BFC starting at the beginning and working their way forward.[snip]

[jim crowley]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

MikeyD, the game is the thing, not the setting. Frankly, who cares which nationalities or theatre it will be?

Well, no. Not for me, at least.

I'm sure T-72, Down in Flames and Histwar;Les Grognards are all fine games; I'm just not interested in the subject matter.

For me it is the subject that is most important (WW2), games on the subject are just a bonus. CMX1 was a fantastic bonus in all its' versions. But I only bought them because they were WW2.

I suppose it depends on whether you are a gamer, first and foremost, or an "historian". I tend towards the latter. Will I buy CMX2 because it is a great, fun game. Yes, if it is a great, fun WW2 game. If not, then probably not (notice I keep my options open here

[MikeyD]

Jim, I'm interested in Grognards BECAUSE I'm a 'historian' as opposed to a gamer, and can claim minimal knowledge on that particular subject. I bet whoever thoroughly plays that game will come away more familiar with Austerlitz than most college professors! That's why the CMx2 theater is important to me - but isn't. Whether it turns out to be the Franco-Prussian war of 1870 or Red vs Blue wargames in the Nevada desert I'm sure to get something out of it. If WWII is a 'niche market' that particular niche has evolved into a deeply rutted road with all the traffic going the same direction. An early war CM would stilll fit the WWII niche but would be a decent learning experience.

[Peter Cairns]

I tend to go with MikeyD in a way. I was never interested in the Hundred Years war or the like, but then about 25 years ago I played the SPI game Wartzburg ( I think it was called that and it came with the magazine) and the game got me reading about it, as the mag was full of articles.

Another one that did the same, ( though It wasn't as good a game) was Constantinople which covered the siege of the city in 14 something. Not a period I would have touched with a bargepole, without the game.

so If this is the home of superior wargames, I think that an eduvational element is a part of it. I bet a lot of highschool lids would learn to appreciate history and take more of an interest if they played at being at waterloo instead of just being lectured about it, or told to right an essay.

Given most "boys" interest these days maybe game based history might well have a role to play in future education.

Peter.