General discussion about CM:SF

[Speedy]

With dynamic lighting night fighting would look awesome with tracers flying everywhere.

[juan_gigante]

I'll bet that in the night campaign missions, the player is given fewer units to work with, to even that out. But I could see a Special Forces Infiltration mission as being really cool. Your guys have much longer line of sight, and having to avoid enemy sentries and stuff, looking for a spot to bypass the MLR and blowing something up, and then having to retreat back to friendly lines.

[Private Bluebottle]

Why is it American centric? I was under the impression the UN consisted of a great many more nations than just the US.

Then there are the obvious problems of the US once more returning to the UN "fold", so to speak. I assume that one of the key assumptions is that there is a change of US presidency and a Democrat has been elected?

[Midnight Warrior]

Here is a link that discusses some of the night fighting issues

night fighting

I wonder how laser designators and pointers will affect borg spotting (or the lack there of)?

[juan_gigante]

Next presidential election being in 2008 and the game being set in 2007, most likely not.

[stoat]

Originally posted by Private Bluebottle:

Why is it American centric? I was under the impression the UN consisted of a great many more nations than just the US.

Then there are the obvious problems of the US once more returning to the UN "fold", so to speak. I assume that one of the key assumptions is that there is a change of US presidency and a Democrat has been elected?

If you want large numbers of UN troops you can have Americans, or you can have Nigerians. Which is better from a sales perspective?

[ASHBERY76]

Ditch the U.N nonsence from the story.Make it an Anglo-Yank liberation.You then have the U.K's point of view for the next module.Perfect.

[Wicky]

Originally posted by Midnight Warrior:

Here is a link that discusses some of the night fighting issues

night fighting

I wonder how laser designators and pointers will affect borg spotting (or the lack there of)?

Appropriate tag MW - I was wondering if the depiction for night combat will be pitch black (apart from moonlight, flares and explosions) etc. with units having enhanced spotting abilities (if so equipped) or will we as a player oversea the battlefield as if we had night vision.

Playing in the dark was always a pain in CM1 and was probably intentional to make it as confusing as it was in WW2 but with modern equipment how will this now work?

[Sergei]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

When you put a platoon of M-1s in support of a US light infantry company against a Syrian T-72 company with a BMP platoon in support in an urban environment, I think you've got an excellent case for a good, entertaining, exciting and unpredictable scenario.

Yes, though I would find the T-72's against T-72's a more interesting scenario. Preferably there's enough toys that you can leave out all the latest ultrahitec.

[hoolaman]

Originally posted by Mace:

I'd love to see Aussies included with a later add-on (since we've been fairly active in the Middle East of late), especially the SASR and it's Long Range Patrol Vehicle.

Funny how some things don't change much in 60 years. Some of these look very similar don't you think?

[Hat Trick]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com (snipped):

Yes, the new Victory Conditions do include ROE (Rules of Engagement) considerations along with others. For example, we will be able to weigh victory for stuff like "get your convoy to x location by y time without taking more than z casualties". We can do this in a way that is not necessarily apparent to the player ahead of time, or it can be explicate. In other words, Victory Conditions in CMx2 are going to be nothing like what they were in CMx1. That's one of the reasons why we expect CMx2 to be far more interesting

Steve

This is fantastic -- the single best change I can think of -- right up the with removing borg spotting. Should really open the game up. One BIG question: does this apply to the campaign only, or can scenarios also be designed by players this way?

[M1A1TC]

Just noticed from the screenshots that the infantry are missing their glint tape and unit patches. Also, the gas mask carrier should have "US" printed on the side.

Also, the side pockets on the ACU pants are slanted, not square

Thanks

[hoolaman]

Yeah I was just about to say, isn't BFC taking their lives into their own hands by doing a game based on stuff that a lot of people here see every day?

I mean, the grogglyness was bad enough with gear shrouded in 60 years of mystery, but the nitpicking will be endless with a range of modern gear in current service.

[76mm]

But, to put it into WWII terms, fighting Panthers against Stuarts (or even Shermans) isn't fun then either. But people still do it.

It's not about the hardware - it's about the scenario designers. Fighting a Panther company against a single M4 tank won't be any more fun that fighting a company of M-1A2s fighting a single T-55. It's up to the mission designers to make the game interesting.

I never said it was about the hardware--it is about one side hopelessly outclassing the other because of hardware, training, doctrine, etc., etc.

Your analogies to CMx1 are misplaced-it is not similar to fighting a "Panther company against a single M4 tank"--if anything, it would be more like the opposite--pitting a single Panther vs a company of M4s. While this might be interesting a couple of times, I think replayability would suffer.

While presumably the Syrian army, or at least parts of it, is more competent than the Iraqi army, the fact is that their conventional forces would have a very slim chance of winning any sizable engagement against US forces. In urban ambushes and unconventional warfare the US will certainly take its lumps. I just don't think it sounds very fun. And you will certainly be able to create some interesting scenarios, such as the one you describe, but how long will this kind of thing remain interesting? At least for me, I don't think it will retain my interest for very long...you are of course free to feel differently. In any event, I will certainly give the game a try, I'm just a bit disappointed in the subject area.

[M1A1TC]

If you are disappointed, maybe you should post in "Disappointed" thread?

[76mm]

This thread is for general discussion, and that's what this is. Maybe you should start a seperate cheerleading thread?

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by 76mm:

This thread is for general discussion, and that's what this is. Maybe you should start a seperate cheerleading thread?

I'd be stunned beyond words to find that aka_tom_w has not done that already.

Now, now, boys, play nice. I noticed the missing unit patches too...I think they should have one on THE CODPIECE, strike some fear into the heart of the enemy...

[hellfish]

Ok, 76mm... how about this. When the game is released, I'll play a couple PBEMs with you as the Syrians. I'll make it a challenge.

IMHO, part of the interest in the game is making sure I suffer the fewest number of casualties possible. American troops don't win wars just because they've got the best stuff and because their troops know the battledrills. Leadership is key.

You're playing the leader - are you going to do as good a job as the 21-22 year old lieutenants out there in Iraq under similar circumstances?

[Kwazydog]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

When you put a platoon of M-1s in support of a US light infantry company against a Syrian T-72 company with a BMP platoon in support in an urban environment, I think you've got an excellent case for a good, entertaining, exciting and unpredictable scenario.

Hellfish, I agree

I think people shouldnt consider a conflict against a determined enemy, even one with older equipment, as a push over particually in an urban environment... unfortuantely the current insurgency in Iraq should teach us that.

Much of Syrias equipment is older but they have a lot of it and have been making some significant attempts to upgrade in the last few years. Some examples of this including the purchase of a considerable number of Kornet-E ATGM's, the updgade of a reasonable number of T-55's with Kontankt-5 ERA, a new battlistic systems and a 125mm gun (capable of also firing ATGM's) and they are currently upgrading a bunch of their T-72's through an Italian company including new armor, computers, thermal gear and ability to fire the 9K119 Reflecks ATGM. They had also recently purchased a bunch of night vision gear from a British source (oops!).

The result is that there should be some very interesting challanges for the player, particually in urban environments as you mentioned.

Dan

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

Now, now, boys, play nice. I noticed the missing unit patches too...I think they should have one on THE CODPIECE, strike some fear into the heart of the enemy...

But what is the use of a unit patch if it's so small that you can't see it? :confused:

[Michael Dorosh]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

IMHO, part of the interest in the game is making sure I suffer the fewest number of casualties possible. American troops don't win wars just because they've got the best stuff and because their troops know the battledrills. Leadership is key.

You're playing the leader - are you going to do as good a job as the 21-22 year old lieutenants out there in Iraq under similar circumstances?

EDIT - moved to a new thread located here

[ October 08, 2005, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ]

[Sergei]

Originally posted by fytinghellfish:

Ok, 76mm... how about this. When the game is released, I'll play a couple PBEMs with you as the Syrians. I'll make it a challenge.

Which brings me to repeat my question: any news on PBEM?

[gunnersman]

Interesting choice you guys made. Im up for it.

Since buildings will be modeled with such detail, in many respects, it sounds like room to room fighting will be possible. And since night fighting will be a part and dynamic lighting will be used, what about tactical flashlights on the guns?

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by 76mm:

This thread is for general discussion, and that's what this is. Maybe you should start a seperate cheerleading thread?

I'd be stunned beyond words to find that aka_tom_w has not done that already.

Now, now, boys, play nice. I noticed the missing unit patches too...I think they should have one on THE CODPIECE, strike some fear into the heart of the enemy... </font>

[Kingfish]

Will there be Camels? You gotta have Camels, they are the prime movers for insurgent artillery, field kitchens, mobile prayer Mosques, etc.