MikeyD Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 I found this site being mentioned on another chat group. It may be the best collection of pictures I've seen for CMAK Italian theater players. Its a site dedicated to the U.S. 752nd Tank Battalion in WWII. Photos of training with Lees (including one that fell off a bridge); CM-useful scenic shots of Italian countryside; a knocked-out Tiger (75mm AP into the fuel tank at just 25 yards! Yikes!); lots of Shermans, and even a photo of an Italian theater Chaffee! (fielded post-war). I haven't seen a single one of these photos elsewhere. Definitely worth checking out. http://www.752ndtank.com/index.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 That is a nice site, thanks for the link. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
752ndTank Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Thanks very much for the kind words about my website. It was my father's tank that KO'd the Tiger at Cecina, and I put about 2 years worth of research into studying this tank vs. tank engagement. If any of you have any questions about the battle for Cecina, or about US armor in the MTO, ask away and I will try to help. The website might also provide some interesting technical and historical information about tank battalions in general. It contains a lot of well-researched technical information about tank battalion personnel, equipment, and functions in WWII. You might also want to take a look at a pretty detailed page I have on the development and deployment of rocket tanks in the Italian Campaign. Hope you guys find this of some interest. Bob 752nd Tank Battalion in WWII [ March 04, 2004, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: 752ndTank ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by 752ndTank: Thanks very much for the kind words about my website. This was my father's tank that KO'd the Tiger at Cecina, and I put about 2 years worth of research into studying this engagement. If any of you have any questions about the battle for Cecina, or about US armor in the MTO, ask away and I will try to help. Bob How accurate is the Knifefight at Cecina scenario on the CD, then? I take it your work was consulted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Wow. Just took a look at some of the other pages on the site; I think that one pretty much sets the standard for battalion history sites. Great restoration project and photos, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
752ndTank Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Mike, Sorry, but I haven't seen the Knifefight wargame -- I'm just a historian so I'm way out of my league here. I'm curious to see the game though. Is this something you buy at retail? No, I wasn't consulted about the development of Knifefight, so I assume it was developed on the basis of my website. A much more detailed account appears in an article I wrote a couple of years ago for After the Battle magazine. Bob 752nd Tank Battalion in WWII 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 5, 2004 Author Share Posted March 5, 2004 I got it bookmarked! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Good stuff The Organisation and Equipment pages, in particular, are very useful. Many thanks JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by 752ndTank: Mike, Sorry, but I haven't seen the Knifefight wargame -- I'm just a historian so I'm way out of my league here. I'm curious to see the game though. Is this something you buy at retail? No, I wasn't consulted about the development of Knifefight, so I assume it was developed on the basis of my website. A much more detailed account appears in an article I wrote a couple of years ago for After the Battle magazine. Bob 752nd Tank Battalion in WWII You rotten boy; it was one of the scenarios on the Combat Mission: Afrika Korps CD. You can download the demo at www.battlefront.com but to play the Cecina scenario you have to order the full version of the game online. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Originally posted by 752ndTank: ... but to play the Cecina scenario you have to order the full version of the game online. ...which you should certainly do if you haven't done it already. Combat Mission is by general consensus the best tactical level wargame ever devised and given your interest in WWII armored combat you'd be sure to find it fascinating. CMAK covers the North African, Cretean and Italian theatres with unsurpassed historical accuracy. The game excells at handling combat from the platoon level on up to battalion.... Nuff said. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
752ndTank Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Thanks for the recommendation! Bob 752nd Tank Battalion in WWII ...which you should certainly do if you haven't done it already. Combat Mission is by general consensus the best tactical level wargame ever devised 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMX2 Borg Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by CombinedArms: Cretean That's Cretin, cretin. And stop working my side of the street. :mad: Bob's distinctiveness WILL be added to our own. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Bob EXCELLENT WORK! One of the best Battalion web pages I've seen. The game is HIGHLY recommended. You should be able to recreate a fully historic reconstruction of your father's tank fight. Screen shots from that might be an interesting addendum to your website 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugilist Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Wow! Great site. "In the Apennines, the 752nd tanks were used mainly in indirect fire support roles. Here, two of the new 76mm M4A3s from HQ are shown providing indirect fire support. Note the elevation of their main guns. This photo was taken sometime in March or early April of 1945." The above was especially eye-opening....! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 I'm not a grog, and even I agree that this is an outstanding web site... good job, very interesting! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 752ndTank, Read the rocket tank portion of the site (loved it; great groggy stuff!) but found an inadvertent howler in the process. Just below the first B&W pic, there's a passage which says "a brief mamo was written..." Now you know and I know it's supposed to read "a brief memo was written..," but as written, it's a bit jarring to come across. Am looking forward to perusing the rest of your site, but it looks juicy as can be for an info junkie such as moi. Any chance you can make the pics expandable for easier viewing? Wunderbar regardless! Gratefully, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
752ndTank Posted March 7, 2004 Share Posted March 7, 2004 "In the Apennines, the 752nd tanks were used mainly in indirect fire support roles." The above was especially eye-opening....! During the Italian Campaign, armor was used mainly for indirect fire and harassing missions during the bitter winter of '44-'45. Tanks had extreme difficulty maneuvering over icy, snowy, muddy mountain roads. Their tracks literally became frozen in place when the soft, muddy ground froze, and icy turret races had to be continually thawed in order to traverse the main gun for target acquisition. The entire front was quite static during the winter in the Apennines, so the tanks joined in the almost constant artillery duels. With the breakout into Bologna and the Po Valley, the tanks were once again used in more conventional fashion. Hope this helps Bob 752nd Tank Battalion in WWII 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Thorne Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 That is a very nice site!!!Thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWB Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Originally posted by 752ndTank: Thanks very much for the kind words about my website. It was my father's tank that KO'd the Tiger at Cecina, and I put about 2 years worth of research into studying this tank vs. tank engagement. If any of you have any questions about the battle for Cecina, or about US armor in the MTO, ask away and I will try to help. The website might also provide some interesting technical and historical information about tank battalions in general. It contains a lot of well-researched technical information about tank battalion personnel, equipment, and functions in WWII. You might also want to take a look at a pretty detailed page I have on the development and deployment of rocket tanks in the Italian Campaign. Hope you guys find this of some interest. Bob 752nd Tank Battalion in WWII Bob, Awesome site, and a very good resource. It was the main source for the "Knifefight in Cecina" scenario which I made for the CD. I plan to turn a few of the other vingettes into scenarios as well. Keep up the good work. WWB PS: Mike, I would say that forces and OOB are as accurate as I could make based on the source. Map is not accurate, as I had no good source. But it is intended to create the climactic situation in the story (Sherman getting flaking shot on Tiger). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Great site. I particularly liked the picture of the bogged (excuse, me) immobilized tank: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Great thumbnails, like John Kettler, can I also ask if you have any larger ones available as I'd like to use them as reference for modding the game's graphic representations of Shermans etc. during the Italian campaign. I'd wish I'd seen them before finishing my Winter mod packs. [ March 08, 2004, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Wicky ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dook Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 For those interested in the fight at Cecina, might I suggest my scenario Cecina Counterattack available at the Proving Grounds. It too was inspired by the account of the action at the 752d Tank Battalion website. It portrays the same action as the CD scenario "Knifefight at Cecina" created by WWB and mentioned earlier. However, the map is more accurate since it is based on maps included in the After the Battle magazine article Bob and an Italian co-author wrote. Bob, if you have detailed information on the OOBs of the German and the American sides at Cecina, I would be very interested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Potential Italian Player Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 @ Bob thanks for the pictures, especially the To the Arno section. I was born in Livorno but i didn't know the battle at podere Madonnina on 12 July 1944. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 11, 2004 Author Share Posted March 11, 2004 This quote from the 752nd battle for Cecina should be of interest: "...came face to face with the Lieutenant Cox's Sherman, at a distance of 75 to 100 yards. Both tanks fired simultaneously. The Tiger's 88mm shell struck the ground close to the left side of Cox's Sherman." Sooooo... After all the complaints on this board about CM Tiger first shot inaccuracy at close range here's a combat account of a Tiger doing just as badly with his first shot as any CMAK Tiger would! Once again, this game just looks more and more accurate the more you dig. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted March 12, 2004 Share Posted March 12, 2004 Originally posted by MikeyD: This quote from the 752nd battle for Cecina should be of interest: "...came face to face with the Lieutenant Cox's Sherman, at a distance of 75 to 100 yards. Both tanks fired simultaneously. The Tiger's 88mm shell struck the ground close to the left side of Cox's Sherman." Sooooo... After all the complaints on this board about CM Tiger first shot inaccuracy at close range here's a combat account of a Tiger doing just as badly with his first shot as any CMAK Tiger would! Once again, this game just looks more and more accurate the more you dig. Not to mention: At the same instant, the Sherman fired a 75mm armor piercing (AP) round, hitting the lower front hull of the Tiger. Crew members of the Sherman recalled seeing the shell merely bounce off the Tiger's hull. The only damage inflicted upon Tiger 221 by this hit was a chip in the Zimmerit coating, which is clearly visible in after-action photographs. The two tanks momentarily lost sight of each other in the dust that had been raised by the firing and movement of the tanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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