Tread Head Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Just a question for all of us who have no real war-gamming interest in the mighty Russian front. I know and understand the relevance of the eastern front (even my tag jokes about it)but it just does not make me want to stay up hours glued to my computer. A lot of us prefer the west and what CMBO has to offer. With all the hype of CMBB going on here, it makes one fear the future of CMBO. Will there no longer be debates on the Brits and their infantry, no more jokes about Polish paratroopers, no more 101st AB? What to do? Yes the hordes of buttoned-up T-34’s (BTW I wonder if buttoned T-34’s will be modeled?) and divisions of expendable infantry do not appeal to all of us. This is a call to BTS from all of us CMBO fans, do not let the Western Front die. I and others will gladly pay for a CMBO with the new engine and updates.. Post here loyal "Western Fronters"! As Ben Franklin once said... If we don't all stand together we will surly all hang separately [ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: Tread Head ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 What basis is there to presume that BTS will not return to the West Front with its oft-cited "CM II" game engine of the future? The only possibility of this is if interim sequels like CM2 (CMBB) or maybe also CM3, would fall too short in return revenue for expended development effort. Then BTS would probably discontinue CM work and seek out other wargame themes. But I kinda doubt that's going to be the case. (I'm certainly lined up for CMBB.) Perhaps this thread could be redirected to speculate on the most significant ways that CM II will raise the bar even further up from CMBB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tread Head: Just a question for all of us who have no real war-gamming interest in the mighty Russian front. A lot of us prefer the west and what CMBO has to offer. With all the hype of CMBB going on here, it makes one fear the future of CMBO.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> just a post to let you know there's plenty of people who actually look forward eagerly towards the fighting on the eastern front. taste is something very subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer: just a post to let you know there's plenty of people who actually look forward eagerly towards the fighting on the eastern front. taste is something very subjective.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Realizing that ordinarily Hof has no taste, I agree with him. The Eastern Front will be great, as will the desert and Italy, the early war, and the triumphant return to the Western Front in years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Tread Head- Look at it this way: When BTS returns to the Western Front (as they have stated they will) it will be with an updated game engine and better modeling than we have even today. We have to wait a couple of years but it will be worth it I'm sure. No pressure there, Steve & Co. -dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Hi, I hear the pain and I share it. However, you have to remember these guys are not just doing it for money. They code because they have a passion which is bloody lucky for us. It is not an easy job to convert and if it was they would. It requires a rewrite and I am sure a whole bunch of other things which all take time and development effort. While I would like the magic wand to be waved and have the Western Front in my hands today with all the sexy changes they are making it ain't going to happen quickly and I will be paying my Shillings and Pence for the Eastern Front because even if I don't play it much I want a chance that they will update the Western Front with all the new Bells and Whistles introduced for the East. So I am prepared for a long wait and will support them by buying their games... Waiting quietly... H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 CMBO will still work just as well after CMBB is released as it does now. There is no expiration date on CMBO of which I am aware. Actually, CMBO might get even better if any of the enhancements found in CMBB are made backwards compatible with CMBO through a patch. BTS hasn't promised us anything, but maybe they will do a patch if they have the time. If you like CMBO now, there is no reason you won't like it after CMBB is released. And since you aren't going to play CMBB you won't have to worry about any new features you might be missing out on because you won't even be aware of them. Time marches on, and so does BTS and Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Merse Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Holy moly: While I can understand that Tread Head is upset that CMBO may be left behind by CMBB, the Battlefront programmers have time and again stated that their intention is to attempt to make the CMBB engine compatible with the CMBO database. Even if it isn't, they are not the same level of blood-sucking scum that exist in the retail (read: on-the-shelf retailers who charge 49.95 for an upgrade adding one more disk file format, i.e. PowerQuest and PM 7.0) software world. They will not abandon us unless we abandon them by lack of software purchases on our part. Back in my college days, I, too, had no interest in the Eastern Front. Games such as Panzerblitz, Kampgruppe, and Squad Leader changed my mind. Now it as interesting, if not more so, than the Western Front. Keep an open mind. Buy CMBB if you wish and see if your mind is changed. It's a small price to pay for continued development of the CM engine. Look at the numbers of patches they provided for CMBO. Most, but not all, were tweaks to satisfy us, their market. I'd wait a bit before bemoaning their abandonment of the Western Front. I don't believe they have. Bob Mercer Former Redleg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 I agree with what everybody else said but do know where you are coming from also. But hey the Russia front will be fun too. Just don't know who's side I'll be on though. I'm still a little confused as who the bad guy will be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 I think you should wait and see CMBB before blowing it off altogether. You may find your interest in the eastern front growing, as so many have with the West just because of CMBO. Pure gamers with no particular historical affinities will have to love the engine improvements, the variety of units, and the sheer scope of battles in the East. If you mostly PBEM, who cares what kind of vehicle your opponent has, as long as it blows up real good? Of course the East is also where most of WWII was fought... but that alone won't make a satisfactory gaming experience for everyone. I think BTS can be relied upon to make a GAME even more exciting than CMBO, even if one's father or grandfather wasn't on one of the sides. Anyway, I think each of us who has enjoyed CMBO has a moral obligation to order CMBB, to make up for the original being so cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan: Actually, CMBO might get even better if any of the enhancements found in CMBB are made backwards compatible with CMBO through a patch. BTS hasn't promised us anything, but maybe they will do a patch if they have the time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, BTS has ruled this possibility out on a number of occasions. There will be no further patches for CM:BO. [ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: MrSpkr ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbaro Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Read a news item reciently that stated that Intel had developed an improved chip technology that would allow computer speeds up to the neighborhood of 70 Gig hz. Now think what that would do applied to ram chips and what that would do to CM programming. It would probably create such a possibility overload that OSHA would terminate the game as a safty hazzard to programers as well as to the playing public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV: Anyway, I think each of us who has enjoyed CMBO has a moral obligation to order CMBB, to make up for the original being so cheap.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I regret having to be the contrary old fart, Mark IV, but I disagree in principle. Gamers who've enjoyed CMBO already obligated themselves with their initial purchase of same. Isn't that what the upfront cost is for? To enjoy a game? Or rather to be a 2nd-round beta tester? By added example, I got plenty of enjoyment also from the BG2 role-playing game. But I'm not obligated to buy the BG2 sequel now released. "Cheap" is also a relative term. $45 isn't really that "cheap" when scaled directly against all other computer games, with typical initial costs of $40--$55. What rather makes CMBO "cheap" in the relative sense, however, depends on the "play value" gotten from the game in terms of hours played and an open-ended editor that allows all kinds of possible game scenarios. However..... BTS did expend a lot of added effort in the multiple patches for CMBO to get it to v1.12. The vast majority of the fixes was not so much for bugs & programming errors than for seeking to improve "historical fidelity." To many other other producers of "wargames," improving historical realism doesn't even weigh in as a criteria. Thus for me, it is those patches (and downloading/using same), and the scope of the patch fixes, that instills a sense of obligation in me to follow through with CMBB, even if I wasn't interested in the Eastern Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTHenry Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 I to would enjoy the western front. I will be patient and wait for more news and would enjoy it being released in the upcoming release but if not they will only have time to improve on the game itself. I'm sure they read and consider our posts but have to do what is best to stay afloat and continue to offer unparalled service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Once the newness of CMBB wears off I'm sure there will be a group of hardcore western front enthusiasts who return to CMBO unless the new features and tweaks improve gameplay dramatically. I will probably be one of them. However, when they get to North Africa and Italy I will probably go so far as to commit the ultimate blasphemy and remove CMBO from my hard drive. As it is now I rarely take it out of the CD tray. If you like the western front a great deal you should buy every game BTS puts out so they are still around when it comes time to redo the 1944-45 western front, which is on their list after the other theaters I believe. Treeburst155 out. [ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 I'm really looking forward to CMBB and the Eastern Front, but I have to admit that CMBO is going to seem somehow diminished in comparison. After we get used to the new features in CMBB (MG zones of fire, vehicle crew morale, perhaps even some improved AI routines, etc.), I think CMBO is going to feel somehow "lacking." It might feel a bit like taking out the Chevy when you know you have a Porsche in the garage. But I think this is inevitable. Steve and Charles should continue to move on, especially since they've indicated that they will be coming back to the Western Front at some point in the future. I do find myself wishing that BTS would move on to the new CM engine right after CMBB is released (and bug-free). I'd be happy to wait for the desert and the early war to come later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 25, 2001 Author Share Posted September 25, 2001 Thank-you all for the non-critical responces. Yes,(if my wife gives me the money :eek: )will be getting CMBB. I will support BTS I just hope and pray it is not YEARS before a CMBO 2.0 comes out..... I am still waiting for Disney to make a Tron 2.0! So, will the Russian doctrine of buttonning up tanks in battle be modeled? Hey, how about a US civil war game with this engine? I would rather wait a year for Italy and Rommel in the sand and have a updated CMBO sooner, anyone agree? [ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: Tread Head ] [ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: Tread Head ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 I am looking forward to all those threads that change from "How was my Panther knocked out at 300m" to "How come my T-34's blow up at 3500m when hit by an 88mm armed Ferdinand" Regards Måkjager [ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: Måkjager ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Måkjager Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 I am looking forward to all those threads thatchange from "How was my Panther was knocked out at 300m" to "How come my T-34s blow up at 3500m when hit by an 88mm armed Ferdinand" Regards Måkjager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Måkjager: I am looking forward to all those threads thatchange from "How was my Panther was knocked out at 300m" to "How come my T-34s blow up at 3500m when hit by an 88mm armed Ferdinand" Regards Måkjager<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> While I am not looking forward to those going 'How come my Ferdinand was knocked out at 500m by an AT Rifle - fix or do somefink!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 To abandon CM because you have no interest in the Eastern Front is like abandoning Tombraider because you have no interest in Egyptian archaeology! One could argue that WWII is just the suit of clothes to dress up a great strategy game. That it's historically accurate is just the cherry on the top of the sundae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spook: I disagree in principle...(snip) Thus for me, it is those patches (and downloading/using same), and the scope of the patch fixes, that instills a sense of obligation in me to follow through with CMBB, even if I wasn't interested in the Eastern Front.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I wish everyone disagreed with me like that... you ended up in the same place I am. I suppose I should have used a smiley in the original... When I look at the computer games I've bought, divided by hours spent playing (and controlled for hours lost to bugs), CMBO is pennies per hour. Maybe per day. I once snagged Steel Panthers out of the bargain bin for $1.82, but I'll bet this still divides out better. To me Combat Mission has been the difference between a decent game about WWII, and a front-row seat with a backstage pass to WWII. Nothing else has come close. Peng ate my smilies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 Different tastes aside I never stop being just a little, well, surprised when reading these reoccurring "don't forget the west" posts. The reason for this, of course, being that there is no period or front in the history of human conflict that is as well represented in board and computer games as the western front 1944 to 1945. Personally I'm hard pressed to find one single theatre in WWII that I would not gladly pay up for, should BTS choose to go there. No matter if it was "limited" to, say, Dutch colonial forces fighting against the Japanese in the East Indies or the Norwegians facing the Germans in 1940. Coming to think of it, it wouldn't even have to be WWII.. Any conflict with organized opponents would do M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV: To me Combat Mission has been the difference between a decent game about WWII, and a front-row seat with a backstage pass to WWII. Nothing else has come close.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In terms of how close a game can create that "front-row seat" to WWII tactical combat, I certainly agree. And it stands to get even better with future CM versions. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Peng ate my smilies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Geez, does he still pursue a jihad on those little buggers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted September 25, 2001 Share Posted September 25, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mattias: Different tastes aside I never stop being just a little, well, surprised when reading these reoccurring "don't forget the west" posts. The reason for this, of course, being that there is no period or front in the history of human conflict that is as well represented in board and computer games as the western front 1944 to 1945. Personally I'm hard pressed to find one single theatre in WWII that I would not gladly pay up for, should BTS choose to go there. No matter if it was "limited" to, say, Dutch colonial forces fighting against the Japanese in the East Indies or the Norwegians facing the Germans in 1940. Coming to think of it, it wouldn't even have to be WWII.. Any conflict with organized opponents would do M.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Very true. Despite the rumor that the majority of wargamers and students of WW2 history prefer the Eastern Front of WW2 for its immense wealth of operations, the ferocity of the two oppponents, and the gigantic diversity of terrain, men, and vehicles, the Western Front seems to see a lot more games and "media coverage". I would attribute this to the way most of such games and movies are for the genral, happless public who barely even knows there was an Eastern Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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