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How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?


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13 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

Brilliant idea! This thread the last couple of pages has been a bunch of boring back and forth about Afghanistan, etc., and then of course you had to get one more dig into Trump (sounding like a child at that), because hey, we're already off-topic, right?

And now I know why I spend less and less time in this topic.

Ouch, did I touch a nerve? Bunch of Biden bashing going on,thought I'd help the fella out a bit... you know throw one trump cow pie into it. Just for prosperity. Nothing more.

Edited by Blazing 88's
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27 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

and then of course you had to get one more dig into Trump (sounding like a child at that), because hey, we're already off-topic, right?

I agree.  Hopefully you are as equally unhappy and disappointed with the post Blazing 88s was responding to.  Specifically Cederic's uncalled for political dig on Biden, which spawned some other digs.  Neither does anything to further this thread, don't you think?

So with that in mind, I'm asking everybody to put a sock in it.  Each side of the political isle should realize by now that the other side has no interest in listening to the other.  And I've got no interesting in having to remind people that if they want to engage in useless and pointless postings, there's plenty of other places to do it.

27 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

And now I know why I spend less and less time in this topic.

You didn't pick the best time to dive in again, obviously ;)

Steve

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1 hour ago, Aragorn2002 said:

On a more serious note. Some say after the exercises Chinese and Indian material will 'get lost' and stay behind to turn up again in the war in Ukraine. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11119667/Chinese-troops-travel-Russia-military-exercises-India-eastern-war-games.html

Would they even need such an "elaborate" deception? It's not like it would fool anybody.

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10 hours ago, FancyCat said:

The article linked has so much more information on Russia and attitudes to war. The head of former station Echo Moscow, a opposition oriented radio station, which was closed following the invasion, ill quote below, which is only part of the long article. Nevermind, look this stuff as well. Just part of the long article, please do read it all. https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-putin-s-war-changed-my-moscow-a-3b5049e7-93fd-4c2a-9c9f-742635ae2099

I think when looking at Ukrainian anger at Russia, this comes to mind, from article, Ukraine has "Within three decades, Ukraine has experienced five genuine changes of power, whereas Russia has seen none." for a people who have regularly seen changes in government, and experienced two revolutions (Orange and Maidan) since independence only 30 years ago, Russian attitudes towards their government must be near infantile. 

Also, the article has a interview with Alexander Borodai, who was appointed PM of the DPR in 2014 (after helping to annex Crimea), despite not being from Ukraine, says this: just absolutely dripping antisemitism.

 

Worth noting that Echo of Moscow was "opposition-oriented" in name only. It was 100% owned by Gazprom e.g. putin himself and its execs (most of whom were Echo's journalists) had their shows in that media and were really imperialistic and aggressive in their views, especially towards Ukraine from as far as 2007 at least. I guess their goal was to cater to the "intelligencia fascists" that hoped to occupy Ukraine without the war, the ones people in the West mistakenly consider "opposition" - but after the full scale invasion started and it turned out that there's zero difference between russian "opposition" and Z-tattooed crazies - there was no point in pouring millions of $$ into it - spare money russians don't exactly have lying around anymore.

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15 hours ago, dan/california said:

The proof that Biden new and believed is the Afghanistan exit. I have zero inside knowledge on this, but I am convinced knowing about Russias plans for Ukraine are why Biden got out of Afghanistan so abruptly. We just would not have been ale to respond the same way with the Taliban suddenly being flooded with Russian kit.

It may be much simpler that that. Why waste lives (and huge cash) on a country that does not want to change and does not want you there? As was clearly proven by an instant collapse when the big guy was out - everybody rushed towards supporting and joining Taliban.

Real "Mission Accomplished" was at least a decade ago. Staying in Afghanistan was only helping people that cope with reality by thinking that dictators run the show and not people put dictators in power, hence why people need somebody else to depose that one for them and guide them to Democracy, Liberty and Freedom.

Edited by kraze
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23 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

Would they even need such an "elaborate" deception? It's not like it would fool anybody.

True enough. But it would be 'a cunning plan' to export arms and ammo to Putin, without large transportation over sea or land. But you're right of course. Anyone who still believes in China's neutrality (or India's neutrality) is very naive, to put it mildly. Apart from that it's a very strange signal to continue joint exercises with Putin in a time like this.

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5 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

True enough. But it would be 'a cunning plan' to export arms and ammo to Putin, without large transportation over sea or land. But you're right of course. Anyone who still believes in China's neutrality (or India's neutrality) is very naive, to put it mildly. Apart from that it's a very strange signal to continue joint exercises with Putin in a time like this.

More to the point, how many actual soldiers can Russia commit to these 'Joint Exercises' ... a Company and a Half? Riding in T-62s and superannuated first gen BMP-1's perhaps, Isn't that about all Putler has left?

Unless they want to send the guys who mount Ceremonial Guard at the Kremlin? Not exactly combat soldiers.

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8 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

True enough. But it would be 'a cunning plan' to export arms and ammo to Putin, without large transportation over sea or land. But you're right of course. Anyone who still believes in China's neutrality (or India's neutrality) is very naive, to put it mildly. Apart from that it's a very strange signal to continue joint exercises with Putin in a time like this.

The world is not black and white. India is a historic ally of Russia that is moving away from that partnership, albeit slowly. China is a nominal russian partner but there are serious trust issues between them and they only despise each other marginally less than the USA. 

Neutrality is a spectrum, not an absolute. 

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Ninja'd :)Looking forward to more of this account though.

I don't think any of it is surprising at this stage, but it does highlight a background issue. For want of a better description, there is a kind of 'zombie' aspect to the Russian army, where they don't really conform to Western expectations.

Perhaps for the troops north of Kherson the fact that they're existing with their logistics practically severed, abandoned by their commanders, scavenging for food, living in unsanitary conditions and slowly succumbing to disease isn't the kind of military disaster that we would envisage... it's just like being back in barracks.

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1 hour ago, paxromana said:

More to the point, how many actual soldiers can Russia commit to these 'Joint Exercises' ... a Company and a Half? Riding in T-62s and superannuated first gen BMP-1's perhaps, Isn't that about all Putler has left?

Unless they want to send the guys who mount Ceremonial Guard at the Kremlin? Not exactly combat soldiers.

It will indeed be interesting to see what Russian units will join the exercises. Only a symbolic participation will be another loss of prestige for Vlad. 

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34 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said:

Mine is. Especially when it comes to joint military exercises with an aggressive country that just invaded another country and is bombing, killing, raping and torturing it's civilians.

It's all true, but there's no way they would miss the unique learning opportunities:

 

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It is worth to read this article by Kyiv Independent about criminal commander of International Legion. There were before many informations from fighters about this kind of problems in part of the unit that was subordinate to GUR. It is unfortunate that "top", including people from Zhelenksy entourage, were reportedly not interested in checking and correcting how things were going there. Now we have scandal.

On one side, Russian propaganda have a Christma present. On the other, it shows that independent journalism is well in Ukraine; publishing such article would be impossible in Russian press.

https://kyivindependent.com/investigations/suicide-missions-abuse-physical-threats-international-legion-fighters-speak-out-against-leaderships-misconduct

Edited by Beleg85
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