How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[CAZmaj]

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by CAZmaj

[Desertor]

If the loss of the cruiser Moskva doesn’t make Putler die from apoplectic stroke?

[asurob]

3 hours ago, amadeupname said:

So I guess the work on every CM title has just stopped so we can pretend we're defense analysts now? 

I have read everything in this thread from one crackhead schizoposting about crisis actors and ancient alien bullsh*t to several of you speculating about the possible deployments of WMD's and other such nonsense. 

Can we please get back to creating more content for the game? 

No.

Good enough answer for you troll?

This might be the best source of information regarding the war on the internet.  It has become my go to reading.  I assure you the guys behind the game are still working.  Happy now...begone troll.

[c3k]

3 hours ago, DesertFox said:

Read this. It is worth it:

"Mars cost the Soviets an estimated 335,000 dead, missing, and wounded men and over 1,600 tanks. But in Russian history books, it was a battle that never happened—a historical debacle sacrificed to Stalin's postwar censorship."

Amazon.com: Zhukov's Greatest Defeat: The Red Army's Epic Disaster in Operation Mars, 1942 (Modern War Studies): 9780700614172: Glantz, David M.: Bücher

 

I'll second the book recommendation. Great read.  No way was it other than a planned hammer-blow with great hopes on its success.

[asurob]

56 minutes ago, Huba said:

And we have confirmation:

 

The sailor in me wonders how not one but two missiles got past the close defense systems all warships have.  Could it be the Russian navy is also incompetent (based what I saw during my time in regarding the Soviet navy all signs point to yes).

[OldSarge]

 

26 minutes ago, BeondTheGrave said:

Also for point of clarification, the Moskva attack. Im not familiar with the Neptune missile, is it hypersonic or in some way unusual? I read in a tweet they got two hits on three missiles? Seems like a pretty high rate of success if true. Should I take from this that Ukraine has next level ASuM or that the Russian CIWS sucks? Or maybe CIWS isn't all its cracked up to be?

Tbh just having a hard time processing this Moskva thing, IMO its one of the most wild things I've read here in a while. Want to talk about @The_Capt's 'oh ****' moments regarding what the UA can do, for me this is another one. 

https://www.military-today.com/missiles/neptun.htm#:~:text=Neptun The RK-360MC Neptun (Neptune) is a Ukrainian,design bureau. It uses R-360 anti-ship cruise missile.

"  The RK-360MC Neptun (Neptune) is a Ukrainian anti-ship missile system. It was developed by Luch design bureau. It uses R-360 anti-ship cruise missile. It is a Ukrainian version of the Russian Kh-35U. The Ukrainian missile is generally similar to the Kh-35U, but has a longer body with more fuel, larger booster, and some other modifications. This missile was first announced in 2013. First examples were reportedly completed and tested in 2016. At the time this missile reportedly lacked guidance system. This missile has a range of up to 280 km. It could be carried and launched from naval, land and air platforms. Development of the Neptun land-based anti-ship missile system was completed in 2019. Ukrainian military trials were completed in 2020. In 2021 a pre-production system was delivered to Ukrainian military for testing. In 2021 Ukrainian MoD funded production of a batch of Neptun coastal defense systems. It was planned that a batch of 18-19 launcher vehicles will be delivered in 2022. Ukrainian military plans to obtain a total of 54 to 90 Neptun launcher vehicles with missiles."

Moskva is one of three Slava cruisers operated by the Russian Navy. The other two, Marshal Ustinov and Varyag,  are currently under the watchful eyes of the NATO led Truman CSG in the Mediterranean. Removing the Moskva is pretty important.

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by OldSarge

[Huba]

It might very well be that the ship wasn't at full alert, with CIWS not set to automatic mode etc. After 6 weeks you could let your guard down a little. We don't know what was it's position when hit, I'd guess it was quite far off the coast.

[CAZmaj]

9 minutes ago, CAZmaj said:

 

 

[asurob]

4 minutes ago, Huba said:

It might very well be that the ship wasn't at full alert, with CIWS not set to automatic mode etc. After 6 weeks you could let your guard down a little. We don't know what was it's position when hit, I'd guess it was quite far off the coast.

In a war zone?  I find it unlikely that their CIWS wasn't in auto mode.   But then again, the Russian navy is a long way from the soviet navy and the soviet navy wasn't that professional....back in the day of course.

[Huba]

Imagine that for example any heli operation is done at the same time of attack, friendly aircraft were flying, anything like this. Also they might've been outside the war zone in their opinion. We'll probably never know.

[DesertFox]

LOL!

[akd]

Apparently there are reports on Telegram that Moskva capsized to her port side.

Edit: fake photo removed

https://www.mk.ru/politics/2022/04/14/minoborony-raketnyy-kreyser-moskva-poluchil-sereznye-povrezhdeniya.html

RE: Chornobaivka, yes, large explosion lighting up low overcast:

Edited April 14, 2022 by akd

[Kinophile]

40 minutes ago, BeondTheGrave said:

Since everyone in this thread seems to be talking about game dev again, when are we going to get a new line in the mission results screen? Killed, wounded, destroyed, $ cost for ordinance?  

Killed

Wounded

Destroyed

Towed

[Fenris]

Second part of this tweet

 

[Kinophile]

Pretty stupid to start a war on the Black Sea and not have your entire Black Sea Fleet....on the Black Sea.

Especially when an amphibious op was part of your Glorious Rescue Of Ukraine from Nasty Nazis.

And when getting back into the Black Sea by force would be 1) impossible and 2) activate Article 5.

Thank god the Russian General Staff is INSANELY incompetent.

[billbindc]

Imaginative tactics, morale and aggression are going a long, long way in this war.

[G.I. Joe]

23 minutes ago, OldSarge said:

 

https://www.military-today.com/missiles/neptun.htm#:~:text=Neptun The RK-360MC Neptun (Neptune) is a Ukrainian,design bureau. It uses R-360 anti-ship cruise missile.

"  The RK-360MC Neptun (Neptune) is a Ukrainian anti-ship missile system. It was developed by Luch design bureau. It uses R-360 anti-ship cruise missile. It is a Ukrainian version of the Russian Kh-35U. The Ukrainian missile is generally similar to the Kh-35U, but has a longer body with more fuel, larger booster, and some other modifications. This missile was first announced in 2013. First examples were reportedly completed and tested in 2016. At the time this missile reportedly lacked guidance system. This missile has a range of up to 280 km. It could be carried and launched from naval, land and air platforms. Development of the Neptun land-based anti-ship missile system was completed in 2019. Ukrainian military trials were completed in 2020. In 2021 a pre-production system was delivered to Ukrainian military for testing. In 2021 Ukrainian MoD funded production of a batch of Neptun coastal defense systems. It was planned that a batch of 18-19 launcher vehicles will be delivered in 2022. Ukrainian military plans to obtain a total of 54 to 90 Neptun launcher vehicles with missiles."

Moskva is one of three Slava cruisers operated by the Russian Navy. The other two, Marshal Ustinov and Varyag,  are currently under the watchful eyes of the NATO led Truman CSG in the Mediterranean. Removing the Moskva is pretty important.

 

Very interesting, thanks for the backgrounder. As an aside, I have heard that the Kh-35 series are nicknamed "Harpoonski" in NATO on account of their similarity in appearance and role to the AGM-84 series.

Bonus irony that the Slavas were built in a Ukrainian shipyard at Mykolaiv, Varyag was originally named Chervona Ukraina ("Red Ukraine") in the Soviet Navy...

[dan/california]

[sburke]

@Haidukwe need to get some of those stamps.  

[LukeFF]

13 minutes ago, billbindc said:

Imaginative tactics, morale and aggression are going a long, long way in this war.

Yes, I like to call it the old "hey, look over here!" trick.

[asurob]

16 minutes ago, billbindc said:

Imaginative tactics, morale and aggression are going a long, long way in this war.

Simply amazing.  

[asurob]

7 minutes ago, sburke said:

@Haidukwe need to get some of those stamps.  

I hope the sell them to help raise money for Ukraine.  I'd be all in!

[JonS]

4 hours ago, db_zero said:

Im going to bet that the artillery and shells provided by the US include FASCAMs and other artillery shells designed to disable, destroy or impede tanks and IFVs.

You do understand that this war is not abstract, right? There is a "tomorrow", and an "after the war"?

Seeding any country, let alone your own, with either FASCAM or any other cluster munition is a terrible idea.

That's probably why Ukraine has signed and ratified the Ottawa Treaty.

Edited April 14, 2022 by JonS

[MSBoxer]

The fact that the Moskva  was built in Mykolaiv gives new meaning to "I Brought You Into This World and I Can Take You Out"

[The_Capt]

6 minutes ago, JonS said:

You do understand that this war is not abstract, right? There is a "tomorrow", and an "after the war"?

Seeding any country, let alone your own, with either FASCAM or any other cluster munition is a terrible idea.

That's probably why Ukraine, unlike the US, has signed and ratified the Ottawa Treaty.

This is a very good point but a couple clarifications that might help.  A lot of signatories have clauses built in, in the "case of self-defence war" and I do not think anyone would blame Ukraine for their employment in this case, so long as they are employed against legitimate military targets - which is basically any and all Russians on Ukrainian soil.

The US lead the planet on self-neutralizing scatterable mines and ICM, with things like 99.9% reliability, it is one of the reasons they did not feel they had to sign on, that and the Korean peninsula.  The US has done this for the exact reason you layout above, particularly after they saw the mess in Lebanon when the IDF used older US munitions.   So unless those are 80s era FASCAM and DPICM, we are not talking about massive RoW problems and the battlefield payoff is potentially significant.  

So the primary issue is really political and I have no idea what the spin on that will be.