Phantom Captain Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Hello all, I know someone here knows... What is the long horizontal cylinder thing (sometimes two of them) on the back of Russian tanks? My guess is a snorkel? I'm probably wrong, please do tell! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megalon Jones Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 I want to say they are extra fuel? The GSFG were supposed to be self sufficient for 72 hours before having to stop for fuel or ammo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Megalon Jones said: I want to say they are extra fuel? The GSFG were supposed to be self sufficient for 72 hours before having to stop for fuel or ammo. Not the barrels on back but the cylindrical tubes attached directly to the back of the turrets. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 If you're talking about something like this pic, it's the snorkel and an unditching log. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Vergeltungswaffe said: If you're talking about something like this pic, it's the snorkel and an unditching log. Yes!! I was talking about the one ringed in blue! It is a snorkel! Ha, I was right! Thank you! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 You're welcome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 It makes me nervous just thinking about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, MikeyD said: It makes me nervous just thinking about it. Whoa!! I'm surprised I have never seen them deployed before. Yeah, big NO thanks!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPB II Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 To be a tank crewman is to embrace insanity, so while swimming with a tank is certainly more insane than tanking on dry land, it's probably not as bad for a tanker's anxiety level as one might expect since they've already suppressed their self-preservation instincts to such great degree. Joking aside, when a BTR-60 sunk to the bottom of a lake during a water crossing in 1991 and took with it 7 young men there were rumours that some of the dead had their fingernails torn off as they had tried to claw their way out of the pitch black steel coffin as it sank into the depths. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 IMHO Russian/Soviet tanks (& other tanks with snorkel systems) should be able to use Deep Ford tiles (usually only for infantry & amphibs), semi-submerged tanks would look so cool in game! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: IMHO Russian/Soviet tanks (& other tanks with snorkel systems) should be able to use Deep Ford tiles (usually only for infantry & amphibs), semi-submerged tanks would look so cool in game! Not sure how wise it would be to go snorkeling in the middle of a combat zone though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Not terribly, but having the option would be cool.....I can think of other things that would be more useful, like smoke generators. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Prep time is according to the Website 20 minutes for fording to the same depth as infantry. We can play this better in the set-up zone. Deep, deeper and deepest water fording with main battle tanks. (narkive.com) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Captain Posted September 3, 2021 Author Share Posted September 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Zebulon Pleasure Beast II said: To be a tank crewman is to embrace insanity, so while swimming with a tank is certainly more insane than tanking on dry land, it's probably not as bad for a tanker's anxiety level as one might expect since they've already suppressed their self-preservation instincts to such great degree. Joking aside, when a BTR-60 sunk to the bottom of a lake during a water crossing in 1991 and took with it 7 young men there were rumours that some of the dead had their fingernails torn off as they had tried to claw their way out of the pitch black steel coffin as it sank into the depths. Wow. Yeah, agreed. Exactly what my fear would be too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 There was probably some discussion about including deep fording during development but I can't recall the conversation. If I were to hazard a guess it was probably something like "No new feature that would have required extensive real world crew prep to accomplish." In the CMCW initial release Bradley couldn't swim. It wasn't until the first patch that they included (abstracted) swimming Bradley out of the goodness of their heart. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurian52 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Zebulon Pleasure Beast II said: To be a tank crewman is to embrace insanity, so while swimming with a tank is certainly more insane than tanking on dry land, it's probably not as bad for a tanker's anxiety level as one might expect since they've already suppressed their self-preservation instincts to such great degree. Tankers want to live just as much as any other soldier (or any other human for that matter). The odds of getting stuck in the mud while driving across a deep river are rather high, and if you are using a Russian snorkel, which is too narrow to climb up, you are basically just trapped in a steel coffin at the bottom of the river if that happens. I have heard that some Russian tank crewmen will flat out refuse to ford a deep river if they aren't hooked up to a recovery vehicle that can tow them out if they get stuck (in contrast, American tank snorkels are wide enough to climb up, but that means they are too large to be carried on the tanks as part of their basic kit). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Te construction of a hatch which could open under water pressure wouldn't be too hard. After the tank fills up with water the crew can ascent in the same manner as a scuba diver. It was suggested a depth of not more than 2 meters which is feasible. The better solution is the editor just makes a few more crossing points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bufo Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, chuckdyke said: Te construction of a hatch which could open under water pressure wouldn't be too hard. After the tank fills up with water the crew can ascent in the same manner as a scuba diver. It was suggested a depth of not more than 2 meters which is feasible. The better solution is the editor just makes a few more crossing points. Soviet tank crews have a kind of breathing device exactly for this, so they can escape a flooding tank. More info: http://mraphoristic.blogspot.com/2017/02/soviet-ip-5-gas-maskrebreather-system.html Edited September 3, 2021 by Bufo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domfluff Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 5 hours ago, MikeyD said: In the CMCW initial release Bradley couldn't swim. It wasn't until the first patch that they included (abstracted) swimming Bradley out of the goodness of their heart. Worth pointing out that the CMCW Bradley was specifically listed as being Amphibious in 1.0 though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Bufo said: Soviet tank crews have a kind of breathing device exactly for this, so they can escape a flooding tank. Yes, it is worth noting if a vehicle fills the air will have a higher pressure. You need to exhale during your ascent. It is almost impossible to drown. We had at the time drop the scuba gear at a depth of ten meters. Ascend with your mouth wide open and a big bubble escapes. Once on the surface a free dive to pickup the gear and put it back on. An AFV needs a means to open an exit under pressure escaping becomes childsplay. It requires training I imagine the panic the first time in that situation without training. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 52 minutes ago, chuckdyke said: We had at the time drop the scuba gear at a depth of ten meters. Ascend with your mouth wide open and a big bubble escapes. Once on the surface a free dive to pickup the gear and put it back on. An AFV needs a means to open an exit under pressure escaping becomes childsplay. Did you have a gun-breach, ammunition stowage, radios etc. etc. to avoid tangling with? Were you dressed for diving, or driving a tank? Just wondering? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: Did you have a gun-breach, ammunition stowage, radios etc. etc. to avoid tangling with? Were you dressed for diving, or driving a tank? Just wondering? Only pointing out the physics involved. To get rid of your scuba gear maybe harder than to strip of your boots and tank helmet. Your clothes may very well aid you in buoyancy. How long does it take to exit a tank during an emergency? I imagine you have to wait sometime till the tank is flooded before you can attempt to open the escape hatches. If you design a tank to negotiate a riverbed it should include the means to escape. Helmets and your boots I wouldn't bother about the coveralls. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) FM 100-2-2 gives details of Soviet river crossings https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/fm100-2-2.pdf and has this to say Tank unit crossings are more complicated than motorized rifle assaults. Although tanks may be attached to support motorized rifle assault crossings,a tank battalion usually crosses in the second echelon. However, a tank battalion could cross in the first echelon in a weakly defended sector. A tank battalion crosses a river by fording, by going over bridges, by being transported aboard ferries or on tactical pontoon bridging, or by snorkeling. Although Soviet tank crews receive periodic underwater training, snorkeling is the least-preferred option. Some elements snorkel across at one site while others cross elsewhere by other means. Sealing arras arc [areas are] selected near concealed routes about 3 to 5 kilometers from the river. Snorkels are installed about 1 to 2 kilometers from the water barrier. Some tanks provide fire support for the crossing, and artillery is used for both direct and indirect fire. The far bank must be secured before tank snorkeling starts. Efficient traffic control is essential. If the traffic controller permits tank formations to mass, they become a lucrative target for enemy aviation and artillery. Tanks cross underwater in column formation at approximately 30 meter intervals. They cross at low speeds without shifting gears or halting. The tank must be halted to remove waterproofing before the turret can traverse and the main gun can fire. I suspect the process remains much the same for the Russians with that confirmed pretty much here https://community.apan.org/cfs-file/__key/docpreview-s/00-00-13-80-40/2019_2D00_12_2D00_04-Russian-Deliberate-River-Crossings-_2800_Grau_2900_.pdf Russian Deliberate River Crossings: Choreographing a Water Ballet from 2019 P Edited September 3, 2021 by Pete Wenman 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Pete Wenman said: The tank must be halted to remove waterproofing before the turret can traverse and the main gun can fire. That pretty much settles it for game purposes then.....Nice idea but it just ain't how it's done when shooting is imminent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 It's in Russian, but has plenty of video material. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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