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To be a tank crewman is to embrace insanity, so while swimming with a tank is certainly more insane than tanking on dry land, it's probably not as bad for a tanker's anxiety level as one might expect since they've already suppressed their self-preservation instincts to such great degree.

Joking aside, when a BTR-60 sunk to the bottom of a lake during a water crossing in 1991 and took with it 7 young men there were rumours that some of the dead had their fingernails torn off as they had tried to claw their way out of the pitch black steel coffin as it sank into the depths. 

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9 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

IMHO Russian/Soviet tanks (& other tanks with snorkel systems) should be able to use Deep Ford tiles (usually only for infantry & amphibs), semi-submerged tanks would look so cool in game!  B)

Not sure how wise it would be to go snorkeling in the middle of a combat zone though 😉

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3 hours ago, Zebulon Pleasure Beast II said:

To be a tank crewman is to embrace insanity, so while swimming with a tank is certainly more insane than tanking on dry land, it's probably not as bad for a tanker's anxiety level as one might expect since they've already suppressed their self-preservation instincts to such great degree.

Joking aside, when a BTR-60 sunk to the bottom of a lake during a water crossing in 1991 and took with it 7 young men there were rumours that some of the dead had their fingernails torn off as they had tried to claw their way out of the pitch black steel coffin as it sank into the depths. 

Wow.  Yeah, agreed.  Exactly what my fear would be too.  

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There was probably some discussion about including deep fording during development but I can't recall the conversation. If I were to hazard a guess it was probably something like "No new feature that would have required extensive real world crew prep to accomplish." In the CMCW initial release Bradley couldn't swim. It wasn't until the first patch that they included (abstracted) swimming Bradley out of the goodness of their heart. 

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5 hours ago, Zebulon Pleasure Beast II said:

To be a tank crewman is to embrace insanity, so while swimming with a tank is certainly more insane than tanking on dry land, it's probably not as bad for a tanker's anxiety level as one might expect since they've already suppressed their self-preservation instincts to such great degree.

Tankers want to live just as much as any other soldier (or any other human for that matter). The odds of getting stuck in the mud while driving across a deep river are rather high, and if you are using a Russian snorkel, which is too narrow to climb up, you are basically just trapped in a steel coffin at the bottom of the river if that happens. I have heard that some Russian tank crewmen will flat out refuse to ford a deep river if they aren't hooked up to a recovery vehicle that can tow them out if they get stuck (in contrast, American tank snorkels are wide enough to climb up, but that means they are too large to be carried on the tanks as part of their basic kit).

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Te construction of a hatch which could open under water pressure wouldn't be too hard. After the tank fills up with water the crew can ascent in the same manner as a scuba diver. It was suggested a depth of not more than 2 meters which is feasible. The better solution is the editor just makes a few more crossing points. 

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1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

Te construction of a hatch which could open under water pressure wouldn't be too hard. After the tank fills up with water the crew can ascent in the same manner as a scuba diver. It was suggested a depth of not more than 2 meters which is feasible. The better solution is the editor just makes a few more crossing points. 

Soviet tank crews have a kind of breathing device exactly for this, so they can escape a flooding tank.

 

More info: http://mraphoristic.blogspot.com/2017/02/soviet-ip-5-gas-maskrebreather-system.html

Edited by Bufo
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5 hours ago, MikeyD said:

 In the CMCW initial release Bradley couldn't swim. It wasn't until the first patch that they included (abstracted) swimming Bradley out of the goodness of their heart. 

Worth pointing out that the CMCW Bradley was specifically listed as being Amphibious in 1.0 though.

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2 hours ago, Bufo said:

Soviet tank crews have a kind of breathing device exactly for this, so they can escape a flooding tank.

 

Yes, it is worth noting if a vehicle fills the air will have a higher pressure. You need to exhale during your ascent. It is almost impossible to drown. We had at the time drop the scuba gear at a depth of ten meters. Ascend with your mouth wide open and a big bubble escapes. Once on the surface a free dive to pickup the gear and put it back on. An AFV needs a means to open an exit under pressure escaping becomes childsplay.  It requires training I imagine the panic the first time in that situation without training.  

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52 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

We had at the time drop the scuba gear at a depth of ten meters. Ascend with your mouth wide open and a big bubble escapes. Once on the surface a free dive to pickup the gear and put it back on. An AFV needs a means to open an exit under pressure escaping becomes childsplay.

Did you have a gun-breach, ammunition stowage, radios etc. etc. to avoid tangling with? 

Were you dressed for diving, or driving a tank?

Just wondering?  :rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Did you have a gun-breach, ammunition stowage, radios etc. etc. to avoid tangling with? 

Were you dressed for diving, or driving a tank?

Just wondering? 

Only pointing out the physics involved. To get rid of your scuba gear maybe harder than to strip of your boots and tank helmet. Your clothes may very well aid you in buoyancy. How long does it take to exit a tank during an emergency? I imagine you have to wait sometime till the tank is flooded before you can attempt to open the escape hatches. If you design a tank to negotiate a riverbed it should include the means to escape. Helmets and your boots I wouldn't bother about the coveralls. 

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FM 100-2-2 gives details of Soviet river crossings

https://irp.fas.org/doddir/army/fm100-2-2.pdf

 

and has this to say

Tank unit crossings are more complicated than motorized rifle assaults. Although tanks may be attached to support motorized rifle assault crossings,a tank battalion usually crosses in the second echelon. However, a tank battalion could cross in the first echelon in a weakly defended sector. A tank battalion crosses a river by fording, by going over bridges, by being transported aboard ferries or on tactical pontoon bridging, or by snorkeling. Although Soviet tank crews receive periodic underwater training, snorkeling is the least-preferred option. Some elements snorkel across at one site while others cross elsewhere by other means. Sealing arras arc [areas are] selected near concealed routes about 3 to 5 kilometers from the  river. Snorkels are installed about 1 to 2 kilometers from the water barrier. Some tanks provide fire support for the crossing, and artillery is used for both direct and indirect fire. The far bank must be secured before tank snorkeling starts. Efficient traffic control is essential. If the traffic controller permits tank formations to mass, they become a lucrative target for enemy aviation and artillery. Tanks cross underwater in column formation at approximately 30 meter intervals. They cross at low speeds without shifting gears or halting. The tank must be halted to remove waterproofing before the turret can traverse and the main gun can fire.

I suspect the process remains much the same for the Russians

with that confirmed pretty much here

https://community.apan.org/cfs-file/__key/docpreview-s/00-00-13-80-40/2019_2D00_12_2D00_04-Russian-Deliberate-River-Crossings-_2800_Grau_2900_.pdf

Russian Deliberate River Crossings: Choreographing a Water Ballet

from 2019

P

 

Edited by Pete Wenman
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