Use of mortars

[arpella72]

In the game,I usually use mortars from rear positions and I try to keep them as much concealed I can or even behind hill slopes,buildings or trees for indirect fire but I have never used them as a first line assault weapon like in this scene from The Pacific series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhyGPxc4gQY

Edited December 27, 2020 by arpella72

[MikeyD]

Someone posted a video of a firefight in Ukraine where they were firing their mortar without a charge, only using the igniter - just enough oompf to get the round out of the tube and however many dozens of meters downrange. That's in nobody's manual on how to properly use a mortar.

[Glubokii Boy]

The lighter the mortar the further forward it could be used i guess...

Medium and heavy mortars belong further back.

[Freyberg]

On-map medium mortars are wasted if they are used for indirect fire - I usually try and sneak them to within 750-1000m of the target, where they are accurate.

2" belong up there with the platoon (in QBs, I make sure I pick up some vehicles with extra ammo, so they have more HE rounds).

60mm mortars work well in both roles, but they are light and quick to set up, and more accurate the closer you get (up to about 300m), so the best place for them is with the HMGs, just behind the front-line infantry.

[John1966]

52 minutes ago, Freyberg said:

On-map medium mortars are wasted if they are used for indirect fire - I usually try and sneak them to within 750-1000m of the target, where they are accurate.

 

I'm playing a meeting engagement scenario with green troops and the call times are 13 minutes in a 45 minute game. So they're really only of use for direct fire.

[chuckdyke]

Like debussing infantry. Use the feature between your objective (not necessarily the game objective). The 60 mm mortar is excellent in the dual role. Even in the direct mode it is often out of LOS of the enemy it is attacking. Mortars (Also artillery) make an area mission the moment you get contacts in the area. You soon get identified enemies for which you can adjust inside a minute. medium on long is how I start. The large area may fool the enemy they are spotting rounds not close enough to worry about. Mortars are the infantry's personal artillery use them as such. Don't go for the kill they were designed for suppression, I found it out after a game. The Kornets were not knocked out but must have been suppressed when my armor was attacking. Make it as fair and as honest as a Bullfight in Spain. Airforce, Artillery, Infantry, Armor play in concert and the firepower masks your planning and intentions. You can always cease a mission and cut it short. "Klotzen Nicht Kleckern!" Heinz Guderian is reputed to have said. Unite your forces when you commence your mission don't use them divided. This is what makes this game great, the moment you try to create a Rambo or American Sniper you end up as one of their victims. 

[mjkerner]

Never bothered to test, but on map mortars can spot/target one action square beyond an obstacle like a wall or bocage, so they can often stay hidden and/in cover and still fire. I use them like Freyberg and usually are able to preserve them, depending on enemy mortars or arty, lol. I consider it a success if my mortar teams run out of ammo before they get blowed up real good! Unless in a desperate defense and needed as infantry, I keep out of ammo teams in the rear and perform buddy aid.

[MikeyD]

There's direct fire, then there's direct fire. Direct firing on distant houses or a copse of trees is one thing, direct firing on an enemy that has LOF on your position and can shoot you is another matter. Its not a fair trade, trading a mortar team for a couple green infantrymen.

[Freyberg]

2 hours ago, mjkerner said:

....on map mortars can spot/target one action square beyond an obstacle like a wall or bocage, so they can often stay hidden....

Mortars can spot from just below the top of a slope, and hit just beyond the ridge of a hill or rise. It takes a bit practice to choose the right spot (part of the fun of the game), and there's no guarantee a sharp-eyed high-quality unit won't spot you - a human opponent is sure to work out where you are before long, so you have to be stealthy, displace before too long, choose your targets and so on; but two or three medium mortars or so can zero in on a juicy soft target very quickly and make a much more deadly mess than most artillery.

Not much good against buildings though.

[arpella72]

7 hours ago, Freyberg said:

 

Not much good against buildings though.

Yes,definitely,60 mm mortars are not really efective against buildings,even medium mortars need lots of rounds to do any significant damage thought the 81mm mortar shell it's quiet powerful.It's a thing that should be improve.

[John1966]

20 minutes ago, arpella72 said:

Yes,definitely,60 mm mortars are not really efective against buildings,even medium mortars need lots of rounds to do any significant damage thought the 81mm mortar shell it's quiet powerful.

But they do supress the occupants of a building.

Those little ones the Brits used don't though. In fact they usually land miles off.

[John1966]

9 hours ago, MikeyD said:

Direct firing on distant houses or a copse of trees is one thing, direct firing on an enemy that has LOF on your position and can shoot you is another matter.

Depends on the distance and what weapons your opposition has. Mortars are effective at ranges small arms usually aren't (MG42s aside).

[nik mond]

If the crew is taking even sporadic rifle fire, its seems to take a long time for them to sight a direct fire shot, especially the 81mm vs 60mm.

On a not so related note, when the tube runs dry, I send the mortar men in as riflemen for the win if needed.

[John1966]

1 hour ago, nik mond said:

On a not so related note, when the tube runs dry, I send the mortar men in as riflemen for the win if needed.

It's why god gave them rifles. 

One usually has an SMG too so rude not to send them in.

[JoMac]

1 hour ago, John1966 said:

It's why god gave them rifles. 

One usually has an SMG too so rude not to send them in.

And, it's why God said, "Return Irish vs John's next Game File" (Germs vs Paras...Little Arnhem) :-)

Edited December 28, 2020 by JoMc67

[Freyberg]

6 hours ago, John1966 said:

But they do supress the occupants of a building.

Those little ones the Brits used don't though. In fact they usually land miles off.

I'm very biased towards the Commonwealth forces, being a Commonwealthian, but I like the 2" mortar, and often purchase more of them in QBs.

Their range is limited, as is their HE load, but they are very light and fast, run without tiring too soon, and set up quicker than any other support weapon. They are a smoke mortar with plenty of smoke shells, and a company's worth can lay down a very good smoke screen in seconds - many of my Commonwealth tank crews owe their lives to them.

I always make sure I pick up all the loose 2" HE lying around in various vehicles (none in ammo trucks, unfortunately) - the mortars are quite accurate at infantry platoon range and while unlikely to KO an MG or ATG on their own, they add that little extra power to the other platoon and company weapons, especially the ability to get that last couple of crewmen in good cover.

Commonwealth forces have less firepower than US forces, because of their inferior rifles, but they are very integrated units, and I have had a lot of fun learning (over many years!) to use all the components effectively together to get the most out of them

[John1966]

5 minutes ago, Freyberg said:

I'm very biased towards the Commonwealth forces, being a Commonwealthian, but I like the 2" mortar, and often purchase more of them in QBs.

I'm very biased to British stuff being a Brit. 

But most of it sucks, he says with a  shocking lack of patriotism.  OK, it doesn't. The Really Big Guns are nice but a Brit squad is terrible. A Bren and a Sten and everyone else with a polite .303. You have to buddy aid the guys with the automatic weapons otherwise it's like ordering a firing squad about.

Of course, the Paras have a bit more firepower but it's short range and they run out of ammo in a couple of minutes.

9 minutes ago, Freyberg said:

They are a smoke mortar with plenty of smoke shells, and a company's worth can lay down a very good smoke screen in seconds

This I will concede. There's little excuse for not using smoke when you're the Brits. In fact it seems to be my main use for those little platoon mortars.

They could be a useful suppression weapon if they were accurate but they're not. I assume it's because they were handheld (hence the lack of set up time).

 

[Freyberg]

2 minutes ago, John1966 said:

They could be a useful suppression weapon if they were accurate but they're not.

The US 60mm mortar is a fine weapon, and often deadly accurate - I especially like the little teams in recon units with their own jeep.

But the best small mortar in the game I reckon is the Soviet one - it may just be my perception, but I've found it the most accurate of all the sub-81mm mortars

[John1966]

4 hours ago, Freyberg said:

The US 60mm mortar is a fine weapon, and often deadly accurate

Most mortars are quite accurate after a few shots. But not that British platoon thing with 12 rounds (none of which will land anywhere near the target).

[chuckdyke]

To suppress is the purpose of this weapon if some of your enemy end up as a casualty it is just a bonus. I know that an 81 mm mortar shell goes through any housing roof and explodes inside. But not in CM learn to live with it. Buildings are hypothetical in this game. Unless the building collapses assume that your fire has been ineffective walls needs to be breached at least in Shock Force 2 you can climb on the roof. In Final Blitzkrieg you can't go up the attic and punch some rooftiles out. I wish I could in this game. My tip, before you risk a spotter see or a scout or his squad leader can call a strike, you need also to be able to observe the spotting rounds. See at how many places you can put the pointer. If it is all good get the observer in the position you are about to vacate. The further away a mortar is the greater is the pattern of the barrage. On map mortars they move up with my security squads. You need them up the front sometimes your C2 is just verbal communication. 

[Warts 'n' all]

8 hours ago, John1966 said:

 he says with a  shocking lack of patriotism..

 

Which is just as well given the fact that it is the last refuge of a scoundrel, as someone who wielded a much sharper quill than mine once said.

And I also like the British 2in Mortar. They came in handy when Paddy wanted to fire off bottles of Guinness to his mates without getting his spud thick Mick napper shot off by Gerry.

[Bulletpoint]

10 hours ago, John1966 said:

a Brit squad is terrible. A Bren and a Sten and everyone else with a polite .303. You have to buddy aid the guys with the automatic weapons otherwise it's like ordering a firing squad about.

The Bren is nearly as good as the MG42, so British squads are compable to the German squads that only have one LMG. Both sides need to buddy-aid the LMG to stay in the fight, because their riflemen are so ineffective.

[Freyberg]

11 hours ago, John1966 said:

...a Brit squad is terrible. A Bren and a Sten and everyone else with a polite .303. You have to buddy aid the guys with the automatic weapons otherwise it's like ordering a firing squad about....

I like the British squad, but it is just one part of a larger integrated unit.

The Enfield is an accurate rifle, so it has a longer effective range - the Bren is a good LMG; but you also need your scouts, who are well-armed (3 Thomsons & 3 Brens per section), your mortars, your nimble little carriers, your Vickers MGs, which can keep up sustained fire as long as they have ammo and are excellent at longer ranges, point-for-point an easy match for the MG42 (at range), and of course your mortars.

Commonwealth infantry (especially Motorised Infantry) are a really fun force to play - I love trying to bring all the elements together, and together they can be very effective.

[JoMac]

Well said, Fryer Tuck 

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Freyberg said:

I like the British squad, but it is just one part of a larger integrated unit.

The Enfield is an accurate rifle, so it has a longer effective range - the Bren is a good LMG; but you also need your scouts, who are well-armed (3 Thomsons & 3 Brens per section), your mortars, your nimble little carriers, your Vickers MGs, which can keep up sustained fire as long as they have ammo and are excellent at longer ranges, point-for-point an easy match for the MG42 (at range), and of course your mortars.

Commonwealth infantry (especially Motorised Infantry) are a really fun force to play - I love trying to bring all the elements together, and together they can be very effective.

 

 

You forget their hand grenades (Mills Bombs.) The Gammon Bomb is wonderful you could manufacture your own at the front half a load to breach a door and a double load to attack a tank. Without them military operations urban terrain would be impossible.