theforger Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 I've been in the process of building a campaign for most of the year and during recent scenario testing I'm seeing incidents of friendly fire from my panzergrenadiers! CMFB, V2.03, Engine 4 MAC Catalina 10.15.7 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultradave Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) Do you have a save that you could post? Be glad to take a look at it. And is this during actual play, or in the scenario author check? I *think* playing on "Iron" level, you can get friendly fire. Unless you mean your PzGs are actually going at each other. That would be bad. I'm also on Catalina 10.15.7 but that shouldn't matter, jus the v.2.03. Dave Edited November 2, 2020 by Ultradave 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theforger Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 thanks, I'll drop you message the file is too big to upload here. It's happened on 3 occasions whilst testing. I do play in iron mode but never noticed being shot at by my own side Fallshrimjager and Grenadiers in earlier scenarios. This latest incident 2./Zug HQ Pioneer team start shooting at Grenadiers 1./Zug 11th Kompanie who are in a building opposite, 2nd and third floor. They are in the eastern group of German forces. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Never saw this happen. Are you sure you did not give them an area fire order by mistake? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 5 hours ago, theforger said: thanks, I'll drop you message the file is too big to upload here. It's happened on 3 occasions whilst testing. I do play in iron mode but never noticed being shot at by my own side Fallshrimjager and Grenadiers in earlier scenarios. This latest incident 2./Zug HQ Pioneer team start shooting at Grenadiers 1./Zug 11th Kompanie who are in a building opposite, 2nd and third floor. They are in the eastern group of German forces. Time of day? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) A slightly different situation, but my US opponents the other day were strafed by their own P-40. That's probably a representation of real life I suppose. Edited November 2, 2020 by Vacilllator My awful typing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howler Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Vacilllator said: A slightly different situation, but my US opponents the other day were strafed by their own P-40. That's probably a representation of real life I suppose. That's working as intended as are friendly fire incidents involving ammo .50cal(?) and up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I don't know if this is relevant to your situation, but IIRC I have experienced friendly fire when there are confusing circumstances - like night-time or in other poor visibility. Also, maybe if poorly trained/experienced. But, am not sure about that. There have been so many patches and updates since 2007 that it's often hard to know what to expect in the game currently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerKommissar Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) A month or two ago, I've had an MG open up on a friendly mountain troop. At night, and British recce units infiltrated into throwing distance. At first, I thought that the MG was firing at the British recce, and accidentally hit a soldat or two. After closer inspection, it looked like the MG sent a series of accurate bursts at my squad -- one guy killed and another wounded. The MG did cease fire, soon after -- possibly coinciding with the HQ getting in visual range of the casualties. I don't have any objections to this, from a gameplay/realism standpoint. Is this feature documented somewhere? Hopefully someone can confirm or deny. Edited November 3, 2020 by DerKommissar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theforger Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: Never saw this happen. Are you sure you did not give them an area fire order by mistake? They had no fire orders. I let the first couple of incidents pass with the fallshirmjager but third time I thought I'd call it out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theforger Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 5 hours ago, Wicky said: Time of day? Fair point, early morning before first light so visibility not great. Maybe a feature rather than bug. But after 3 occasions in separate campaign scenarios I thought I'd call it out. The Pioneer HQ were vets, so experience a non issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theforger Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Howler said: That's working as intended as are friendly fire incidents involving ammo .50cal(?) and up. All low calibre infantry weapons, which is why it caught my eye, thought I was seeing things. Thanks for the interest all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 5 hours ago, theforger said: Maybe a feature rather than bug. There's not supposed to be small-arms friendly fire in the game. So I'm curious what you're seeing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Wicky said: That post was not about units opening fire at each other by mistake like @theforger reported. My post from back then was saying that small arms could cause casualties if the firing unit did not spot the friendly unit in the target zone. I thought it was a great detail, but unfortunately it was seen as a bug by BFC and removed. Small arms no longer cause casualties this way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Op poster says what he's seeing as friendly fire happening in poor visibility conditions My understanding is that 'friendly fire' can happen in those circumstances. "At night friendly small arms fire is also possible." Steve, May 31, 2008 "I thought it was a great detail, but unfortunately it was seen as a bug by BFC and removed. Small arms no longer cause casualties this way. When did they do that? Have you a link to an engine bug-fix list for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 20 minutes ago, Wicky said: Op poster says what he's seeing as friendly fire happening in poor visibility conditions My understanding is that 'friendly fire' can happen in those circumstances. "At night friendly small arms fire is also possible." Steve, May 31, 2008 You must be thinking of the old CM1, which I never played. 21 minutes ago, Wicky said: "I thought it was a great detail, but unfortunately it was seen as a bug by BFC and removed. Small arms no longer cause casualties this way. When did they do that? Have you a link to an engine bug-fix list for that. It was never published in any bug-fix log, but somebody said they could no longer reproduce it, and when I went back to try, I couldn't either (using the same savegame as the first time). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 #theforger So it seems a save file where you're seeing it occuring would help. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 So, is it the conclusion that friendly fire used to occur with small arms in poor visibility, but that was cured by a patch? Not sure when that patch came out but it seemed that I saw friendly fire casualties in the last couple of months. This was when many units were pouring suppressive fire at a building and the assaulting unit took casualties when there seemed to be no enemies that I could see. I have a vague memory from ancient CM2 days that we were told that RICOCHETS can cause friendly casualties. Maybe once a bullet is deflected by something it can cause a friendly casualty? Either way, small arms friendly fire seems like a realistic feature. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I've see fratricide in night battles before, a long time ago. Its rare but it happens. People play so few night battles that you don't often get to see it - or recognize it when it happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) friendly fire does happen, but it is rare. This is from SF2 testing. MGS stryker fires on its own and kills the Abrams in front of it. night time, Iron. Not sure if it was friendly fire or if it was targeting enemy infantry and the shot fell short. either way, it is always a good idea to properly space your units. HQ is still deciding whether to recommend a court martial... Edited November 3, 2020 by Sgt Joch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeyD said: People play so few night battles Have found that many/most CMBS and many CMSF scenarios are set at night due to Allied forces taking advantage of night vision and thermal equipment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howler Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Erwin said: Have found that many/most CMBS and many CMSF scenarios are set at night due to Allied forces taking advantage of night vision and thermal equipment. Have found that most BN, FI, FB, and RT players prefer playing day scenarios because no one has advantage of night vision and thermal equipment. @ErwinWhat percentage of your play in WWII occurs at night? The great majority of scenarios in the modern tittles occur during day. I haven't counted but the ratio feels like 10:1 day/night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyberg Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 12 hours ago, Wicky said: That's a very interesting thread. If it's true that small-arms fire can cause friendly-fire incidents if the firing unit does not have LOS or contact of the receiving unit, then that is both a fair, and a very sophisticated, way to model friendly fire. I haven't noticed this myself, but then I suffer so many friendly fire incidents - from DF, mortars and artillery - that I probably just haven't realised... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 I was about to say 'I hardly ever play night scenarios', then I remembered - Oh yeh, I built a moonless night scenario for CMRT module, and another early dawn scenario. And just yesterday I was testing stuff under night fighting conditions. I seem to play night/pre-dawn battles more often than I realize! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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