Freyberg Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 46 minutes ago, Erwin said: In some ways this is fine. But, there is a problem when one has missions which have short time periods and the designer seems to think that a player has a telepathic knowledge of where reinforcements will appear, or what they will be equipped with... From the first game I played way back when, I assumed the briefings were to some degree misleading - I guess it comes from watching war movies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornGinger Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Erwin said: for some reason the reinforcing engineers had no demo charges... Am hoping there will be an updated version that has a briefing which mentions this rather important fact... Instead of assuming that they had demo charges, couldn't you have just spent a second or two to see what equipment those engineers were carrying before comitting them to the assault? Edited March 14, 2020 by BornGinger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 I am saying that one does not know that the reinforcing engineers who arrive during the scenario have no demo charges. Once cannot check that without going into the editor and that spoils other surprises - so I never do that. Either the designer made a mistake and did not ensure that the reinforcing engineers possessed demo charges, or it should have been mentioned in the briefing. After all, this is a game and there are many compromises. There are aspects where one has much more control and info than in RL, in other ways one is much more limited in one's options. But, to be a successful scenario the player must not end up feeling they were deliberately misled by inaccurate info if that spoils the scenario. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyberg Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, Erwin said: I am saying that one does not know that the reinforcing engineers who arrive during the scenario have no demo charges. Once cannot check that without going into the editor and that spoils other surprises - so I never do that. Either the designer made a mistake and did not ensure that the reinforcing engineers possessed demo charges, or it should have been mentioned in the briefing. After all, this is a game and there are many compromises. There are aspects where one has much more control and info than in RL, in other ways one is much more limited in one's options. But, to be a successful scenario the player must not end up feeling they were deliberately misled by inaccurate info if that spoils the scenario. It seems odd that they had no demo charges - I've never seen that with engineers and I haven't noticed it as something you can set in the editor... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weapon2010 Posted March 14, 2020 Share Posted March 14, 2020 On 3/8/2020 at 3:11 PM, Erwin said: Lots of designers have Anglish as a 2nd language so they should be congrachulated for what they can do. Am less vorried about grammer and speling than about breefings that are either inaccurate, to complex and/or hard to unnerstand or omit important info dat the player needs in order to plan proper. ok now thast funnee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fusselpulli Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Well, it might be annoying to see mistakes in the briefing, but it is as it is, many designers are not native English speakers. Especially grammar mistakes are difficult to spot for a foreign person, and often as well for a software program. What can the designer do? He will probably never be able to speak the language as fluent as a native speaker. He need to trust proof-readers, if any are available, which seemed to be the case with the briefing mentioned in the first post of this thread. What are other solutions? Writing no briefing at all, because the designer can´t make sure to not make mistakes? Not designing missions, because he isn´t a native English speaker? A problem requires a solution. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dr.Fusselpulli said: Well, it might be annoying to see mistakes in the briefing, but it is as it is, many designers are not native English speakers. Especially grammar mistakes are difficult to spot for a foreign person This is a bit of a red herring, since native English speakers also make all sorts of grammatical errors. Even the venerable BBC is not immune. For example, they might write "try and" instead of "try to", or use "was" instead of "were" to speak about hypothetical situations. I've also noticed that many native speakers seem to struggle with the difference between "its" and "it's". Its not quiet write. Edited September 8, 2020 by Bulletpoint 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howler Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 33 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said: Its not quiet write. I sea what you did they're... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Dr.Fusselpulli said: Well, it might be annoying to see mistakes in the briefing, but it is as it is, many designers are not native English speakers. Especially grammar mistakes are difficult to spot for a foreign person, and often as well for a software program. What can the designer do? He will probably never be able to speak the language as fluent as a native speaker. He need to trust proof-readers, if any are available, which seemed to be the case with the briefing mentioned in the first post of this thread. What are other solutions? Writing no briefing at all, because the designer can´t make sure to not make mistakes? Not designing missions, because he isn´t a native English speaker? A problem requires a solution. Could always ask someone in UK or US on this site to proof read when they playtest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Erwin said: Could always ask someone in UK or US on this site to proof read when they playtest. You mean proofread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howler Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 2 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: You mean proofread? We Canucks need not apply. This must be how it feels to be an Aussie or Kiwi... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Us oldster were taught proof reading. However apparently as language evolves... http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammar-tip/is-it-proofreader-proof-reader-or-proof-reader/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 So I'm Scottish (yes I know) but even though I speak English (and when with friends use Scottish dialect - I'm a Fifer - that's broad as Scots goes with words like 'eicht' (eight) and 'twa' (two) and 'richt' (right). I've written articles and all sorts published and profession (in my other life). But writing briefings for scenarios is a style in and of itself. My writing has all sorts of idiosyncrasies I'm not aware off until pointed out. though, I'm lucky in that @Combatintman does a bang up job of picking me up on my rather 'variable' use of the English language (and for that I am forever grateful and I'm due him loads of beers, and crisps). A great many scenario designers are not native English speakers, but man, speaking English covers a lot of variables and styles! So please cut independent designers some slack. There is no 'style guide' for custom made missions. In that regard I'd suggest good briefing graphics are key as I think they should give the player a good summary, of what they have to do in the mission (objectives, own force and enemy). Make it pictorial, make it accurate, the nuance comes in the briefing. I like detailed immersive briefings personally, although I do know they are not everyone's cup of tea, but I do hope the briefing graphics will give any non-native speaker the intent of the scenario/mission. Tioraidh! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Erwin said: Us oldster were taught proof reading. However apparently as language evolves... http://www.future-perfect.co.uk/grammar-tip/is-it-proofreader-proof-reader-or-proof-reader/ How oldster are you, if I may ask? I don't know about that page you linked to, but - according to the Mirriam-Webster dictionary - the first use of "proofread" as a verb dates back to 1845... and that's from an American dictionary. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proofread But I'm not trying to put you on the spot here. I'm just interested in language and how it evolves. Edited September 9, 2020 by Bulletpoint 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combatintman Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 11 hours ago, George MC said: A great many scenario designers are not native English speakers, but man, speaking English covers a lot of variables and styles! So please cut independent designers some slack. There is no 'style guide' for custom made missions. In that regard I'd suggest good briefing graphics are key as I think they should give the player a good summary, of what they have to do in the mission (objectives, own force and enemy). Make it pictorial, make it accurate, the nuance comes in the briefing. I like detailed immersive briefings personally, although I do know they are not everyone's cup of tea, but I do hope the briefing graphics will give any non-native speaker the intent of the scenario/mission. Tioraidh! Tell me about it - I was born in the UK, but had to learn Australian English when I transferred to the Australian Army. In my current job I have to write in the dialect from the 13 Colonies switching to the Queen's English when I'm not at work or Strine when I'm communicating with someone in Oz. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 Thankfully all those Chamberlainesque "Keep Calm" posters got pulped in the Spring of 1940. And then it was time to "Get Angry and Kill Nazis". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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