antaress73 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Well the gunner on the t-72b3 will spot well when rotating the turret left and right to cover à bigger arc and the gunner sight is much superior to the one on the t-64 and has thermals so it should see much better on the frontal arc . Side and rear it will see marginally better because of more vision blocks but it should be bad at spotting and i think it already is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiduk Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) On 13.08.2016 at 10:33 PM, MikeyD said: The biggest offense against a vehicle in-game is the Ukrainian T64 in my humble opinion. Sure, its an old vehicle but giving it the spotting ability of a buttoned BT fast tank in CMBB seems a bit harsh. Even if you unbutton the commander (only to get him shot by a sniper 5 minute later) he still can't spot anything. Need to test this, but in articles about war on Donbas our tankers said T-64BV is absolutely blind from left side or even left semi-sphere. Often happened death or injures of TCs, which were unbuttoned in order to watch battlefield. PS: I have found this article. Tank commander of 30th mech.brigade told: "People ususaly think if a tank drive directly on you this is a death, but it's not always true. For example T-64 is blind on left side. A crew hope that gunner will control from left, but gunner for his part always watch in the sight" T-64BV gunner has day sight 1G42 with zoom 3,9x (angle of view 20 degree) up to 9x (8,5 deg ) and night sight TPN 1-49-23 zoom 5,3x (8 deg), identification "tank" target on 1000 m maximum in active mode and up to 600 m in passive mode Commander has usual prism optic observation devices w/o zoom and combined day-night TKN-3V sight with day zoom 1x...5x (10 deg) and night zoom 4x (8 deg). Identification of "tank" target on 400 m maximum in active mode. Edited August 15, 2016 by Haiduk 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antaress73 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 10 hours ago, Oleg said: I dont think so. I think any tank ingame with TKN-3 should really be almost blind, and thats while stationary, while on the move they must be completely and utterly blind(cause TKN-3 does not have optical stabilization). So for my look T-64BV is modeled correctly, its T-72B3 who has way more vision ingame than it deserves. Well the gunner on the t-72b3 will spot well when slewing the turret left and right to cover à bigger arc and the gunner sight is much superior to the one on the t-64 and has thermals so it should see much better on the frontal arc . Side and rear it will see marginally better because of more vision blocks but it should be bad at spotting and i think it already is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 (edited) On 8/15/2016 at 2:34 AM, Vanir Ausf B said: BTW, with regards to the OP, the spotting ability of many vehicles will be getting tweaked to more closely match their optics in the next patch if I get my way. Of course, I frequently do not get my way. yes, I have been playing a lot of CMBS lately, night scenarios. There are spotting issues that have to be tweaked. UKR tanks are blind while RUS T-72s/BMP3s have X-ray vision. OTOH U.S. Abrams + drone + 155mm Paladin w. precision ammo = shooting fish in a barrel... Edited August 17, 2016 by Sgt Joch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Also how to take control of both teams in the battle, so i can do more accurate tests? I made test in OP post with AI controlling infantry, i just have chosen units for him to be sure he has only infantry and no anti tank weapons. But to do proper test i must rid of AI and control both teams myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 To control both sides play the game in Hotseat mode. What happens then is you take turns giving orders for each side. It is intended for play when both players are in the room and take turns at the computer. But there is no reason you cannot be both players yourself. You are allowed to leave the password field blank - saves a ton of time not having to type passwords. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinaldi Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I never thought I'd see a thread that says the T-72 sees too well. My Black Sea forums drinking game didn't account for this... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Posted August 19, 2016 Author Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) On 18.08.2016 at 0:24 AM, Rinaldi said: I never thought I'd see a thread that says the T-72 sees too well. It sees so much too well that in weather condition "thick haze" dedicated surveillance vehicles like brm-1k, prp-4m with ground Radars sees less than T-72B3 with its gunner site. Yes T-72B3 has good gunners site, but it should not be that good to outspot dedicated surveillance vehicles with Radars like brm-1k, prp-4m Edited August 19, 2016 by Oleg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerpanic Posted August 19, 2016 Share Posted August 19, 2016 I should start my topic on how the t64bv and bulat are more blind than a t-34 who have a drunken crew! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Posted September 4, 2016 Author Share Posted September 4, 2016 Here T-72B3 outspotting PRP-4M dedicated ground surveillance vehicle equipped with radar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 GSR type radars are not inherently superior to thermals in terms of short range spotting. Not to mention the issue is more "wide" angle spotting, and less narrow angle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Posted September 5, 2016 Author Share Posted September 5, 2016 And here is T-72B3 outspotting Oplot Both tanks has second generation thermals, and should be at least equal in spotting. PTT-2(Oplot) thermal gunners sight characteristics here http://photopribor.ck.ua/en/products/defense/equipment_for_armored_vehicles_control_systems/buran1/ it says detection range is 8km characteristics of Sosna-U(T-72B3) sight here http://www.uvd.kirov.ru/information/5416-xarakteristiki-sosna-u-dnevnoj-opticheskij-kanal-teplovizionnyj.html it says detection range is 5km 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) Guys in general, This is a most educational and somewhat provocative thread. How well do the earlier T-72 models spot compared to the T-64 and the Oplot? Oleg, Man, do you know how to make a solid case! How did you manage to get the Russian-exclusive T-72B3 and the Oplot in the same game, or did you simply stick them in the same map with the same viewing position and foes swapped? Regards, John Kettler Edited September 6, 2016 by John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Oleg said: And here is T-72B3 outspotting Oplot It's not clear from you screenshots what you mean my "outspotting". Does the T-72 spot things that the Oplot never can or does it just spot them faster? If it is the latter, how many times did you run the test? Edited September 6, 2016 by Vanir Ausf B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Posted September 6, 2016 Author Share Posted September 6, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Vanir Ausf B said: It's not clear from you screenshots what you mean my "outspotting". Does the T-72 spot things that the Oplot never can or does it just spot them faster? If it is the latter, how many times did you run the test? I launched map with night and thick rain condition in Hotseat mode, controlling both sides put Oplot and T-72 at front one another with clean line of sight, and move them close till some one spot the opponent. T-72 spots Oplot first and Oplot still need to move a lot closer to spot T-72 Edited September 6, 2016 by Oleg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 John, Oplot is Ukraine only. @Oleg the Oplot is not a valid choice for spotting comparison - it's commander has a known bug where he spots but then is constantly 'rotating' for the rest of the game. This significantly degrades the Tank's spotting ability. You're better to use an elite '64 (BV or Bulat, I forget which one is more "advanced"). Soeaking if which, in RL doesn't the Ukraine have 72s of its own? If memory serves, I don't think they're available as a choice in game? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 12 minutes ago, kinophile said: You're better to use an elite '64 (BV or Bulat, I forget which one is more "advanced"). BV and Bulat does not have thermals. 13 minutes ago, kinophile said: in RL doesn't the Ukraine have 72s of its own? Few old modification of 72s was restored from storage as act of desperation, when our army needed any tank they could get. Officially t-72 are not in active service. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) 22 minutes ago, kinophile said: Oplot is not a valid choice for spotting comparison - it's commander has a known bug where he spots but then is constantly 'rotating' for the rest of the game. This significantly degrades the Tank's spotting ability. It should be. Since T-72B3 has terrible commander optics it should not add any spotting power, especially at night at bad weather conditions(this situation i used in test). So in that test commander of T-72B3 should be as good at spotting as comander of Oplot with 'rotating' bug Edited September 7, 2016 by Oleg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 (edited) On September 5, 2016 at 8:48 PM, Oleg said: I launched map with night and thick rain condition in Hotseat mode, controlling both sides put Oplot and T-72 at front one another with clean line of sight, and move them close till some one spot the opponent. T-72 spots Oplot first and Oplot still need to move a lot closer to spot T-72 So you took a single sample and declared "test complete"? To compare spotting times: 1. Both test subjects must be spotting the same type of unit with all other conditions identical. 2. You must run hundreds of iterations and compare average spotting times as there is a highly randomized element in spotting. However, you can probably get away with much fewer iterations if you are simply testing can / cannot spot. Edited September 7, 2016 by akd 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Oleg said: It should be. Since T-72B3 has terrible commander optics it should not add any spotting power, especially at night at bad weather conditions(this situation i used in test). So in that test commander of T-72B3 should be as good at spotting as comander of Oplot with 'rotating' bug Well perhaps should not, but in game It does. In contrast, the rotating Oplot commander is not spotting At all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUAN DEAG Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 On 9/7/2016 at 6:03 AM, Oleg said: BV and Bulat does not have thermals. The T-64 Bulat actually has a thermal sight for the gunner in the form of the Buran-Catherine-E thermal imaging sight (the commander lacks a thermal sight AFAIK). http://morozovkmdb.com/eng/body/addburan.php 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machor Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 According to the Russian Wikipedia article on the Bulat (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Т-64БМ ), the Buran-Catherine thermal sight has not been installed in service vehicles due to financial reasons: "Предусмотрена возможность установки вместо него тепловизора «Буран-Катрин»[33], однако по финансовым причинам он не является стандартным оснащением." Based on my (disastrous) attempts to take on T-90AMs with Bulats in reduced visibility, I can definitely confirm the in-game vehicle lacks thermals. While I'm at it, I'd greatly appreciate if anyone could help me with the thermals (or lack thereof) on the following Ukrainian vehicles in game, as I could not find information on the forum: - Does the Ukrainian Tunguska have thermals? - Does the BTR-4E have thermals? - The PRP-4M should have a Soviet thermal sight. Any experience using it? (Can it, for example, match Russian thermals?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oleg Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, Machor said: Does the BTR-4E have thermals? No 6 hours ago, Machor said: The PRP-4M should have a Soviet thermal sight. Any experience using it? It has first generation thermals. Its more like thermal photo camera than video. Its give thermal scans of target with slow update rate. In game i think it works. PRP-4M and BRM-1K spots further then any other ex-soviet vehicle like btr-70 and bmp-2. But less then modern second generation thermals like on t-72b3 and t-90 and Oplot (Oplot currently spots less cause of bug, realistically it should spot as good as rusian tanks) Edited September 9, 2016 by Oleg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VladimirTarasov Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 4 hours ago, Oleg said: No It has first generation thermals. Its more like thermal photo camera than video. Its give thermal scans of target with slow update rate. In game i think it works. PRP-4M and BRM-1K spots further then any other ex-soviet vehicle like btr-70 and bmp-2. But less then modern second generation thermals like on t-72b3 and t-90 and Oplot (Oplot currently spots less cause of bug, realistically it should spot as good as rusian tanks) Quite true, Oplots should be spotting equal to Russian tanks. Oplots are definitely more capable machines than T-72B3s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 All 20 of them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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