How many scenarios are there?

[Zveroboy1]

Can someone tell me how many scenarios there are in the full game?

Thanks.

[gnarly]

25

[Zveroboy1]

Thanks, that was quick.

[Big Boss]

A further question;

Dos any body know how many of the 25 are H2H and how many are vs AI?

[George MC]

3 minutes ago, Big Boss said:

A further question;

Dos any body know how many of the 25 are H2H and how many are vs AI?

Often there is not enough time for any scenarios to be properly tested H2H (H2H play takes ages - often way longer than you have time given the builds that need tested). Designers often give their best guess whether a scenario is suitable for H2H but it'll come out in the wash as and when players play the shipped scenarios H2H OR designers once the game is live will craft specific H2H scenarios.

FYI all the scenarios that ship are designed for play against the AI and will have AI plans for either side (although the designer may recommend Scenario X is better played against AI side Y).

 

[Big Boss]

58 minutes ago, George MC said:

Often there is not enough time for any scenarios to be properly tested H2H (H2H play takes...

Alright, thanks!

[MikeyD]

Scenarios are usually all about the cleverly crafted AI orders. If you're playing primarily H2H there's about 400+ maps in the Quick Battles folder including maps picked up from the scenarios. So in QB you're playing over the scenario terrain but with control over force balance and composition.  

Edited April 7, 2016 by MikeyD

[AttorneyAtWar]

Don't forget the scenarios in the campaigns, that probably easily pushes that number to 40+.

[PanzerMike]

2 hours ago, George MC said:

Often there is not enough time for any scenarios to be properly tested H2H (H2H play takes ages - often way longer than you have time given the builds that need tested). Designers often give their best guess whether a scenario is suitable for H2H but it'll come out in the wash as and when players play the shipped scenarios H2H OR designers once the game is live will craft specific H2H scenarios.

FYI all the scenarios that ship are designed for play against the AI and will have AI plans for either side (although the designer may recommend Scenario X is better played against AI side Y).

 

Yup, that is exactly right. Some scenarios are tested H2H but not all. You would neet a boatload of people to test all scenarios (multiple times) for H2H. Testing vs the AI for both sides (multiple times) is already a LOT of work, especially for the larger scenarios.

I try to keep H2H in mind when I design, but no guarantees it will play out as a fun H2H scenario. That said, one of my scenarios ("A Muddy Affair") was tested H2H and played out nicely in H2H mode, though it was not specifically designed for it. I got lucky I guess, hehehe.

And like MikeyD said, there is always the QB option, often with maps yanked from the scenarios.

Ow, and very excited about CMFB being finally available for you guys! I hope you enjoy playing it as much as I enjoyed making scenarios for it!

[A Canadian Cat]

So, when I test I do play H2H at least some.  This time I played even more PBEM than usual thanks to having two of my regular opponents now on the test team: @Bud Backer and @Nidan1 .  So here are my thoughts:

A Muddy Affair - definitely fun H2H but really tough for the US so either accept that it is not an even match up and just have fun or give the more experience player the US.

Action at Lanzerath Ridge - not really designed for H2H.  You might like it but the German side will have a frustrating time and the US side might get board.

CMBO Classic Wiltz - yeah awesome - do it.  The Germans might have the harder go of it but that could just be because I got may back side handed to me in that one.

Cutline to Grosshau - again awesome - do it.  We are not quite done with this one but lots of fun infantry fight and a bit different than the usual fight for the objective.

We started another one but did not get far before it would not load in the latest beta, or was it alpha, and we had to abandon it.  Ah well it happens.  It was big and we never restarted it.

[Big Boss]

49 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

Scenarios are usually all about the cleverly crafted AI orders...

I know about the QB but my favorite is the Player vs AI but also playable as H2H and dedicated H2H. IMO QB are a little too much chess and guy in candy store for my taste. And AI is AI for better or worse.

 

28 minutes ago, PanzerMike said:

Yup, that is exactly right. Some scenarios are tested H2H but not all. You would neet a boatload of people to test all scenarios (multiple times) for H2H. Testing vs the AI for both sides (multiple times) is already a LOT of work, especially for the larger scenarios.

I can only imagine the amount of work that must be put in a really good H2H, but you have managed that a few times yourself even if they weren't dedicated H2H scenarios. Sometimes it help just by adding a setup zone to the AI side and some briefing to have it worth a try as H2H.

 

I really look forward to playing CMFB and I know in my heart there will be very enjoyable mission to be played H2H even if they are primarily designed as vs AI.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Big Boss

[Big Boss]

11 minutes ago, IanL said:

So, when I test I do play H2H at least some.  This time I played even more PBEM than usual thanks to having two of my regular opponents now on the test team: @Bud Backer and @Nidan1 .  So here are my thoughts:

A Muddy Affair - definitely fun H2H but really tough for the US so either accept that it is not an even match up and just have fun or give the more experience player the US.

Action at Lanzerath Ridge - not really designed for H2H.  You might like it but the German side will have a frustrating time and the US side might get board.

CMBO Classic Wiltz - yeah awesome - do it.  The Germans might have the harder go of it but that could just be because I got may back side handed to me in that one.

Cutline to Grosshau - again awesome - do it.  We are not quite done with this one but lots of fun infantry fight and a bit different than the usual fight for the objective.

We started another one but did not get far before it would not load in the latest beta, or was it alpha, and we had to abandon it.  Ah well it happens.  It was big and we never restarted it.

Sounds promising

[A Canadian Cat]

5 minutes ago, Big Boss said:

I know about the QB but my favorite is the Player vs AI but also playable as H2H and dedicated H2H. IMO QB are a little too much chess and guy in candy store for my taste. And AI is AI for better or worse.

I hear ya. I have a suggestion: Try QB Probes.  I totally agree with you that QB meeting engagements can start to feel like a chess match all to often. Using Probe is pretty much a balanced attack defend matchup.  You can still get a candy store effect I suppose but that depends more on who you play with.  One of my current favourite things to do is a mirrored Probe via QB.  So same map, same nationality defending or attacking, different force selection as made by the players themselves.  Or the variation mismatched mirror Probes where one is in CMRT and one in CMBS, for example, you defend in one and attack in the other.

[Nidan1]

Absolutely, testing in H2H mode does take a lot of time. You can usually obtain enough information to make educated comments as IanL did without necessarily playing a battle to the end of allotted time.

I personally have found that playing PBEM games is my first choice now. I have several games going in all the different CMx2 releases. Being retired I do have more time to devote to playing, not only to test, but for the fun of it as well. Times zones do not really present a huge obstacle. I have opponents  not only in all time zones of the US but in Europe, New Zealand and Down Under as well. My regular Canadian opponents are conveniently in the same time zone as me. 

All players have a preferred mode of play, some regularly play more than one mode. The designers seem willing to please all the different groups and that is a good thing.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Nidan1

[Ultradave]

As Raptor said, there are numerous scenarios in the campaigns. I play tested some of the KG Peiper ones. I promise you a challenging time with those. There are even choices you can make that will affect what scenario comes next or how the next one is set up. Really great. Now that I'm done with my income taxes I plan to tackle that beast myself.

[Andrew H.]

1 hour ago, IanL said:

 I have a suggestion: Try QB Probes.  

I would second this; I think probes are easily the most interesting QB type.

Meeting engagements were rare historically and tend to lead to gamey QB play - like rushing to get to the objectives first so you can defend them.

Attacks and assaults were fairly common historically, but often leave the defender with little to do after the battle has commenced. (Particularly in medium-sized and smaller battles).

Probes were common historically, and because the point difference isn't as great as in attack/assault QBs, there are a lot of options for the defending player...including the ability to gain local superiority on one part of the map and to conduct a limited counterattack.

IME, the AI is also works best when it is the defender in a probe QB.

[Childress]

5 hours ago, Andrew H. said:

Meeting engagements were rare historically and tend to lead to gamey QB play - like rushing to get to the objectives first so you can defend them.

I'd go farther than that. A Meeting Engagement in the CM sense, precisely equal combat factors on both sides, NEVER happened in WW2. It's as mythical as the Unicorn. However, based on my PBEM experiences, those who favor MEs are the most competitive, skilled and ruthless players in the game. They tended to care little about Mods or historicity and often refused to countenance any other kind of battle for PBEMs- in other words, a breed apart.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Childress

[Vanir Ausf B]

To Verdenne and Victory is also suitable for H2H although the American side is a little easier IMO.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Vanir Ausf B

[Big Boss]

10 hours ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

To Verdenne and Victory is also suitable for H2H although the American side is a little easier IMO.

Thanks for the recommendation!