sburke Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 ouch. according to Doug's last post, the M10 is down (burning) and a Sherman is likely dead. I would still be real cautious against Bil even with an equal Panther on Sherman set up, but this looks to have suddenly gotten more interesting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 The 57mm ATGs can still ruin a Panther's day if they get a side shot, I think, so he's not quite got impunity outside Bazooka range, but it's certainly looking like it's going to be harder for the Shermans now. It's ironic that after the early-turn discussion of how Bil's elevation advantage might make the Panthers more vulnerable, it was Panther fire on a Sherman which was hitting top armour because of the steepness of the incline Bil has to descend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 The most likely thing to get damaged with mortar fire is the running gear. And 60mm aren't going to do much even to Tracks. "Small HE" was downgraded in effect against armour, some time ago (v2? 1.11?) As an interesting aside, I've just completed a small QB in which circumstances allowed me to rain 60mm mortar rounds on a Stug and a Mk 111. In the case of the Stug, one round achieved a partial penetration on the gunners hatch - marked as hull top I think - causing the crew to bail. Oddly enough another round went through the now open commanders hatch but neither actually KO'ed the Stug. The MK 111 also took a hit on the turret roof which caused another partial penetration and did KO it. I was quite surprised at those results as I didn't think they were possible with 60mm ammo; 81mm maybe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yes going to be very tough for Bil, I would have lobbed some smoke rounds in that area DF from the Sherman's. He has to get to the side and where they are now he will lose. He has one maybe two turns before the Panthers close that option for him. I am hoping he can pull something out of the bag. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 From Bil's response to my post about why his Shermans are coming down the mountain where they are, compared to what I'm seeing in Doug's videos (admittedly with tree foliage off) I wonder if his usual painstaking assessment of his fighting ground has come up a little short. Looks to me like there's a fairly broad gap in the woods, but Bil averred that he hadn't left their cover... That said, not sure how he was ever going to sneak armour past overwatching Panthers, if what I think I'm seeing is right. Smoke might've helped, if the elevation didn't mean the tanks were visible above it (can't see if that's the case from visuals provided). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Yes I think you are right the elevation might make smoke less effective. When looking at the smoke from the hit Sherman it did not seem to help because it reversed up the slope. Hard to tell with tree foliage off. I think Bil had one shot at flanking and it looks like it is close to failure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobo Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Anybody else want them to flip slides and play again on this map and allow us to "watch"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Anybody else want them to flip slides and play again on this map and allow us to "watch"? That's a really good idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delliejonut Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I agree, they should flip. I think Bil could plan a lot better the second time around. To be honest though, I'm rooting for Doug to win. I'm a big fan of Bil's, but my record vs Doug is 3-2 in his favor, so him beating Bil will make me look better 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbarbaric Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 uf, posted this on bil's thread but i think it might be a bit over the top. luckily we have this thread. so,if this was real life, would the allied side look to cease the engagement and withdraw from battle at this point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 (edited) uf, posted this on bil's thread but i think it might be a bit over the top. luckily we have this thread. so,if this was real life, would the allied side look to cease the engagement and withdraw from battle at this point? Funny you mention that. I just replied on Bil's thread that a draw or a minor defeat is still a victory of sorts in some circumstances. So yeah, I'd say pulling back and waiting to come back another day would be quite realistic. A surrender in the game has the misfortune of making it an instant decisive loss but if one compares units destroyed, the picture is less clear*. In theory, Bil's losses are two armoured vehicles while I think Doug lost a fair bit of his supporting infantry. *if one is prepared to concede the map on the premise it's not vital to hold to the last man Edited July 10, 2015 by Bud_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Just seen this thread and posted in Bils IMO yes Allies would call off assault, but if Bil can obtain a draw I think he will have done very well! Not his best game for sure and why he kept trying to deploy the mortars when it was clear they were too exposed and IMO needed to pull back and deploy elsewhere. If he can keep Sherman's alive as a threat that should keep Panthers at bay and lay some zooks side shots if Panthers come forward to play. I would be setting some armoured arcs for the zooks to keep tight control on ammo usage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Looking forward to reading this thread.. I hope you guys went easy on me Doug and I are winding this game down and both selecting cease fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Looking forward to reading this thread.. I hope you guys went easy on me Doug and I are winding this game down and both selecting cease fire. I don't think you have to worry, Bil. Lots of respect for both opponents in this battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 Interesting thread, men. Some very good comments/observations here. Thanks for caring about the battle. AARs are fun, but a lot of work. This was my first one......which makes me wonder just what kind of idiot picks a fight with Bil Hardenberger for his first AAR? Re: flipping sides/mirror match..... I think I've just about had enough of this map. Better quit while I'm ahead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 I would like to see a rematch, but on a much larger and more open map. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I would like to see a rematch, but on a much larger and more open map. I'm game, whenever Bil has the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I enjoyed this AAR, but I think ultimately, this sort of map boils down to who has the strongest frontal armour. Not to dismiss your effort Doug. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I enjoyed this AAR, but I think ultimately, this sort of map boils down to who has the strongest frontal armour. Not to dismiss your effort Doug. Thanks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobo Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 I enjoyed this AAR, but I think ultimately, this sort of map boils down to who has the strongest frontal armour. Not to dismiss your effort Doug. Hmmm. Perhaps you should challenge Doug... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobo Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share Posted July 17, 2015 Interesting thread, men. Some very good comments/observations here. Thanks for caring about the battle. AARs are fun, but a lot of work. This was my first one......which makes me wonder just what kind of idiot picks a fight with Bil Hardenberger for his first AAR? Re: flipping sides/mirror match..... I think I've just about had enough of this map. Better quit while I'm ahead. Gamey.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Gamey.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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