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Kibitzer's Korner - Gamey SOB Challenge - No Doug No Bil


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I think Doug should move his HMG team forward, into the uphill farm  building. Better to duck under the arty than to retreat back. (Plus, back puts him in woods and the HMG out of position. In the farmhouse it can still dominate the far woods.

 

As well, I think he should advance a Panther into that green field. He'd have quite the, wait for it, field day from that position. In fact, I'd put 'em both there. They would totally stop any moves by Bil.

 

Were I Bil, I'd attack. ;)

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As well, I think he should advance a Panther into that green field. He'd have quite the, wait for it, field day from that position. In fact, I'd put 'em both there. They would totally stop any moves by Bil.

 

I think Doug will lose the whole left side position on that forested hill if he doesn't stop Bil's Shermans from coming out of the woods. I had posted my previous comment before looking at the game threads, I think Bil is going to try a right hook with Easy Company and hit the VL on that side, supported by his tanks.

 

Doug needs to do something now, because I can see Bil putting together some Panther bait real soon...

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I think Doug should move his HMG team forward, into the uphill farm  building. Better to duck under the arty than to retreat back. (Plus, back puts him in woods and the HMG out of position. In the farmhouse it can still dominate the far woods.

 

As well, I think he should advance a Panther into that green field. He'd have quite the, wait for it, field day from that position. In fact, I'd put 'em both there. They would totally stop any moves by Bil.

 

Were I Bil, I'd attack. ;)

Yes to both suggestions. He certainly needs to stop those Sherman's getting into the fields in front of that HMG team. From there he can fire across the map and support his infantry attacking the right hand objective (Doug's right).

As noted by Slim this is a key moment in the deployment of the forces.

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it is amusing to watch this from the side. if i'd take a guess i'd say the battle has ended as soon as bill got tanks down. with a bit of luck and ATG in position Doug is done and doesn't even know about it.

Yes that's my reading of it, but still depends on spotting and shooting, the Panthers could have a better day? Mind you with one losing his T/C the odds are against him...

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Just read Bils approach and it is as we thought, the one aspect that jumped out at me is sending the Sherman's one at a time. I guess it makes sense, but if you have a limited window maybe more at same time would be better? (I can see why testing the waters with one might be safer)

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I think one at a time will allow Doug a chance to kill them one at a time. The Shermans need to get across the dead ground and into Doug's woods. There, they can turn the Panthers' flank. That would allow the hilltop tracks a chance to kill the Panthers. Once the Panthers are down, then Bil can use his infantry freely. Until then, the infantry has to stay clear of the Panthers.

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As far as I can see from the images and vids, the advancing Shermans are only going to break concealment into dead ground, wrt the Panthers. And Doug has entirely inadequate infantry AT assets to protect his Shermans in that high-canopy woodland. Once the Shermans reach the bottom of the valley, they'll see the defenders reasonably well, or at least be able to direct HE at the instruction of the infantry, and Doug will have to expose a Panther to deal with them. Considering the eyes-on that Bil has, and his knowledge that Doug could only possibly be bringing 2 Panthers, I'm surprised he's being so cautious, since any reaction from the Panthers is to his advantage. Moving slowly gives Doug time to push forward just a little and increase the exposure of the Shermans, rather than having to react, late and wildly.

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Just seen Doug latest video, I think his Panther has got into a decent position to counter the Sherman's without exposing his flank too much. The trees might block LOS from the M10 and it looks like he should get LOS onto the valley, I think Bil will need some smoke to be able to break cover.

Of course all depends on exact LOS and without loading up the map that is hard to see. The advantage for Doug is he can mount a reverse slope defence of that ridge line if he needs to. Also I see he has a shreck in the area which he will have to look after as he might need it..

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Yeah I think Bil is going to achieve his goal.  Force the Panther to react.  In reacting it may find itself engaged by multiple enemies.  Doug's infantry has turned into the bait that will make him have to react.  After that luck may end playing a huge roll.  If the Panther can take a few rounds from the Shermans, Bil may find himself short some tanks and nothing to show for it.  A few turns may decide the rest of the game, especially with those Pshk guys dropping like flies.

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Hmm after seeing Doug's turn and losing two men from the two Zhreck teams that is going to hurt, maybe his Panther will have a turkey shoot, but if noot having your AT teams reduced by 50% is not going to help....

 

I am wondering if Bil will try to move the Shermans more to his right (Doug's left flank) or if he will engage from that area...

 

For me it would seem to make sense to try to get further on his flank, and maybe with hindsight it might have been better to have the M10 with them?

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Hmm after seeing Doug's turn and losing two men from the two Zhreck teams that is going to hurt, maybe his Panther will have a turkey shoot, but if noot having your AT teams reduced by 50% is not going to help....

 

I am wondering if Bil will try to move the Shermans more to his right (Doug's left flank) or if he will engage from that area...

 

For me it would seem to make sense to try to get further on his flank, and maybe with hindsight it might have been better to have the M10 with them?

I'm surprised Bil's coming down so near his centre; I was expecting the Shermans to squeeze further to their right. Leaving the M10 up top is a very effective pinning move. A threat from two directions is more effective than from just one; if Doug ever figured out the allied armour was all coming in on his left flank, he could maneuver on them with the Panthers and impunity.

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Yep a threat from two directions is always better, but if Doug can find a position to fight the Sherman flank move without being threatened by the M10, he can bring the other Panther foward in a turn or two. That then means the M10 is being wasted sat on the ridge.

That is why I am wondering if it might have been better to bring it along?

I guess it will depend on sight lines from the ridge through the tree canopy.

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Looks like Bil has lost a Sherman for not a lot and I think I can see why Bil can not easily get the Shermans further to the left (Doug's). I would be using smoke to try and mask the move from that Panther and i would be questioning if the M10 is really contributing to the place where the action will be won....

 

If the M10 can get LOS into the side of that forward panther all well and good, but I don't think it can and Bil will need to draw back his Shermans or use smoke to block that Panther and force it to move... IMO

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it might work with a lucky shot as some vital part might be knocked out or granade entering the open hatch. however mortar team should have the tank in sight to minimize leading rounds as the tank would sail away as soon as it would notice that is being a target if targeted by indirect fire.

Edited by mbarbaric
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How useful would be a point target on the panther from a few mortars? I recognize that 60mm mortar shells are not going to penetrate, but would they damage optics, rattle the crew, etc. enough to cause disruption?

It is possible, but Bil is better disposed to strip away Doug's infantry, and that will pay better results than a chancy Panther hit. If Bil can target those German infantry squads it will really give him some options. The Panthers without infantry can not win the game imo

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How useful would be a point target on the panther from a few mortars? I recognize that 60mm mortar shells are not going to penetrate, but would they damage optics, rattle the crew, etc. enough to cause disruption?

 

In my experience, mortar teams will refuse to fire on vehicles they cannot damage. I tried to hit a StuG with a mortar during The Road to Montebourg, and my mortar team just sat there like, "you're joking, right?"

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