AnorakNo1 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I've seen lost of discussion on the merits of whether BF should charge $10 for the 3.0 upgrade what I would like to know, does the upgrade improve the general game play? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I've seen lost of discussion on the merits of whether BF should charge $10 for the 3.0 upgrade what I would like to know, does the upgrade improve the general game play? I think you'd have to define what you were including in "general game play", since it seems to be something that peoples conception of varies quite considerably. The framerate improvements for big maps won't have much noticeable impact on little maps where framerates were already more than adequate, for example, and the potential of AI triggers could greatly affect the single-player experience, once there are maps and scenarios out there using them. What do you mean by gameplay? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 If by "improve gameplay" you mean, "Features make gameplay faster and more intuitive," then I would say yes most definitely. I personally find the addition of command lines very useful; speeds up my movement phase considerably as I have to spend less time moving around to each unit in e.g., a platoon; I get a quick representation of the entire platoon's C2 at a glance rather than having cycle through each unit individually. Shift + click to select multiple artillery assets is another handy one. I also like the new KIA/WIA display as it shows me very quickly whether a selected unit has any recent WIA/KIA down on the battlefield that need to be attended to, and also what weapons are down with those KIA/WIA (and can potentially be picked up by Buddy Aid). I'm sure there are others; these are the first ones that come to mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I've seen lost of discussion on the merits of whether BF should charge $10 for the 3.0 upgrade what I would like to know, does the upgrade improve the general game play? No my game play still sucks. Oh wait you meant. . . . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I've seen lost of discussion on the merits of whether BF should charge $10 for the 3.0 upgrade what I would like to know, does the upgrade improve the general game play? You get the target briefly command and some command lines. Those are iirc the only real gameplay improvements that you will personally see. Behind the scenes 3.0 adds AI triggers and more AI commands. This are a lot more important and will make singlep[layer games a lot better. However, you are relying on people making scenarios using them. So while this might be a reason to upgrade it won't really until the new scenarios hit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 At the most basic level, my machine always had difficulty with heavily forested and bocaged maps in CMBN, especially at ground level. Turn the camera in the wrong direction and the framerate would plummet. 3.0 greatly alleviates that problem for me. If you play both CMBN and CMRT you should've already noted the improvement. Someone commented before that the worse your computer the greater the improvement you'll see from the changes. The biggest *surprise* for me was the hit decals. Before they first showed up I was entirely cold to the idea. But they fundamentally change the nature of gameplay. Your tank goes 'BOOM' from an unseen enemy and now you can inspect to see what diameter hole was made, whether a Faust HEAT penetration or a fist-size 88 hole. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I believe it was Mark Ezra who mentioned that the AI in general has been tweaked under the hood in ways that helps it react a bit more realistically to the situation (not just due to designer-in putted AI triggers). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster65 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I've seen lost of discussion on the merits of whether BF should charge $10 for the 3.0 upgrade what I would like to know, does the upgrade improve the general game play? Yes it does. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Plus 3.0 sets the stage for later additions too. Significant work had to go into making the game properly model flamethrowers and the AI reaction to flamethrowers. Though that enhancement won't make much difference until flamethrowers fall into your hands. Actually, I'm not sue. You might now see terrain burning and smoldering a bit after a particularly heavy bombardment. That's new. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 If you bought CMBO you got the CMx1 engine and it's patches. With CMBB you got CMx1 engine revised and no way to get the revisions into CMBO. CMAK brought even more CMx1 engine revisions but still no way to retrofit the game improvements to earlier titles. Enter CMx2 Engine CMSF presented the new CMx2 engine along with it's module system to expand the game and improve the game play at the same time. Perhaps BFC should have titled this the "Crying Game" for all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that went on. With it's teething problems behind it the CMx2 Engine was re-introduced as CMBN, the premier WW2 tactical simulator. The awards speak for themselves. It's 3 Modules provided new equipment and continued game and visual performance changes. CMFI/GL continued the roll with more gaming and performance enhancements in Italy's stand alone cameo appearance. Enter Red Thunder. The East Front (much like the history of CMx1 engine) offered significant Gaming and Graphic Performance changes. Faster loading time, higher degree of graphic resolution for lower end PC's, The miracle of "triggers", increased AI group and orders. An improved Scen editor that can handle the creation of larger maps with greater ease. AND.... unlike the CMx1 CMBB Title... the ability to retro fit these improvements to the West Front Titles! Fantastic. Dedicated West Front Players were finally allowed the goodies the hard working BFC coders have added to there otherwise rapidly aging games. So instead of me having to trash my favorite theatre of war like I did with CMBO, and wait YEARS to return to the WW2 West Front with a New FULL PRICE TITLE, BFC offers to bring my aging games up to date for $10.00 a pop. Or I can just keep playing them the way they are. My choice. So I did. If you didn't, fine. But seriously, the ten bucks? Restaurant cost in West LA vs the Mid West? 'I otta get this for free cause I bought a game a few years ago'? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Actually, I'm not sue. You might now see terrain burning and smoldering a bit after a particularly heavy bombardment. That's new. Oh yeah it's there. @sfhand and I upgraded our PBEM game and his 105 direct firing at a building caused little fires on the second floor during the first turn. Cool. Of course I wish he were shooting at an unoccupied building but what can you do 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 [snip] Ermmm. Did that end up in the right thread, Mark? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Ermmm. Did that end up in the right thread, Mark? I suppose ...moved it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnorakNo1 Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 Thank to everyone who has replied to my enquire. One thing I hoped would be improved was the unit path finding, for example sending a section along a ditch I find even if I set waypoint for the section to follow two or three will not follow the ditch thus exposing there position and getting the section shot at. Another improvement would be the ability to select how you advance you section ie. line abreast, column, open order etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Actually, I'm not sue. Too bad, otherwise you'd have a song written about ya. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zane Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 About path finding. I run into this problem all the time. Set a moving path to cross a hedgerow and they may walk the long way around and get wiped out by the enemy. That's my two cents worth tonight. Regards Lane 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Pathfinding for infantry is a bit of a bear. You always have to assume that they're the laziest mudfeet you did ever meet. They're so lazy they'd rather crawl on firm ground in full view of half a company of enemy than crawl in the mud at the bottom of the ditch. It has ever been thus. Lots of really short movement legs is the only way to manage this, and I don't see a better way of biasing the TacAI. That said, though, there are some sorts of terrain that the TacAI doesn't seem very good at using for cover once they stop: ditchlock ditches in particular almost may as well not be there, it seems to me. That bit could do with some fiddling. The formation thing has never been announced as a new feature, so I don't know why you might've thought it was in there. It gets talked about a fair bit on here, but it's never been in even a partial list of improvements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosseau Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 There's no way I'm going to pay $10 to introduce the bugs I've been reading about. And who knows how mods will be affected? When they're all fixed and a new 3.0 module comes out for either game, I'll be first in line. Otherwise, that $20 for the upgrades goes toward the next CMRT module 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulik Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 But seriously, the ten bucks? The sulfur miner of Ijen makes about $7 dollars in a day breathing toxic fumes getting killed a bit each day in the process. Tell him he has to work three days to upgrade his CMBN and CMFI. Luckily I'm not an Ijen sulfur miner, but I don't like the sort of argument of how cheap something is, for a kid who has a thing for wargaming and has unemployed parents may 10 bucks be quite a fortune. I respect all the other arguments, and think upgrades are a good thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 There's no way I'm going to pay $10 to introduce the bugs I've been reading about. And who knows how mods will be affected? When they're all fixed and a new 3.0 module comes out for either game, I'll be first in line. Otherwise, that $20 for the upgrades goes toward the next CMRT module I upgraded to 3.0 and played a bit of a Montebourg campaign from my saved game. Apart from grayed out MG module (solved itself after 3rd rerun of the game), lound plane engine at the start of the saved campaign game (no planes on the scenario and it solved on it's own after a new turn was made) and ingame keyboard changes not working (got fixed on it's own after some restarts of the game) haven't spotted any other obvious bug myself. All my sound and visual mods from 2.12 work. Obviously I don't use Vin's animated text but use all other stuff. So upgrading to 3.0 is not as dramatic as you made it sound per average user. But sure, you can freely decide as you wish and also express your feelings about 3.0 here but I shall say it's not really fair to be a drama queen when it's really not needed to be such. I personally hope hotfix for these and other bugs (one story buildings not entered by troops for some rare number of people; bugged shaders on vehicles when one of the vehicles is on fire for some people; skewed shadows for some users; foggy terrain being skewed for some users; too long loading times for AMD graphical cards due to bad drivers on ATI's side; plane control omission mistakenly being ported from CMRT for all users and some other stuff I might have overlooked) will be delivered soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Williams Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I also like the new KIA/WIA display as it shows me very quickly whether a selected unit has any recent WIA/KIA down on the battlefield that need to be attended to, and also what weapons are down with those KIA/WIA (and can potentially be picked up by Buddy Aid). And I dislike this feature because it makes the screen look cluttered and the Casualty icons look too similar to the lightly wounded icons. This needs a toggle, and yes I'm going to keep bringing it up ad infinitum. But, as to the OP's question, yes, the 3.0 upgrades do add to gameplay. The AI triggers alone are probably worth it for those who like to play scenarios against the AI. Upgrades are a no brainer for me, simply because 99% of my PBEM opponents always purchase them, so if I want to continue to play PBEMs, I need to also purchase them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 The sulfur miner of Ijen makes about $7 dollars in a day breathing toxic fumes getting killed a bit each day in the process. Tell him he has to work three days to upgrade his CMBN and CMFI. Luckily I'm not an Ijen sulfur miner, but I don't like the sort of argument of how cheap something is, for a kid who has a thing for wargaming and has unemployed parents may 10 bucks be quite a fortune. I respect all the other arguments, and think upgrades are a good thing. How does a person for whom 10 bucks is a fortune afford a computer to wargame on in the first place? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 How does a person for whom 10 bucks is a fortune afford a computer to wargame on in the first place? He stole it, what you've never watched Oliver? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosseau Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Ah, I didn't consider PBEM, Doug. I don't play MP, but yes, that's a strong reason for many to upgrade. Also, let's try not to mock the poor. It gives our country a bad reputation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hister Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 Term poor is a relative word. I am poor for some while rich for others. 1 € or even less is a daily wage for some... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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