Battlefront.com Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 There is a bug with the Ammo Dumps that is causing some issues which, unfortunately for Bil, won't be soon enough! Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 However, I am sure he wishes those trucks had SMG ammunition. Just like his AA halftracks in the market garden beta AAR, he is cripple by the BETA build. He's doing better than the beta testers in the Elefants at Kursk. The beta build didn't even have machine guns! Well, he's doing better so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I have a question about Soviet tactics I thought I'd better ask here because it involves Bill's technique and recon. And I dont want to spend $20 on the book. But the whole idea about "Soviet tactics" has me questioning if they do recon like Bill is doing. Is there any attempt at self preservation at the Company/Battalion level or is it just "go" straight from Point A to the objective as the crow flies and (attempt to) destroy everything in their (The Company/Battalion etc) path? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted February 11, 2014 Share Posted February 11, 2014 I have a question about Soviet tactics I thought I'd better ask here because it involves Bill's technique and recon. And I dont want to spend $20 on the book. But the whole idea about "Soviet tactics" has me questioning if they do recon like Bill is doing. Is there any attempt at self preservation at the Company/Battalion level or is it just "go" straight from Point A to the objective as the crow flies and (attempt to) destroy everything in their (The Company/Battalion etc) path? What Bill is describing right now isn't so much "recon" as it is "move to contact". But yes, the Red Army did do this. In the desperate days of 1941 and 1942, you might see hastily conscripted Red Army formations lacking the training and leadership to do basic squad or platoon drill, but not by 1944. As I commented in the Soviet tactics thread, by this point in the war, Red Army tactics at the Battalion level and below weren't all that different from the Germans' or the Americans' or anybody else's. Not identical, mind you, but broadly speaking their low-level conceptions of stuff like overwatch, move to contact, etc. were more like everybody else's than they were different. Honestly, I think way too many people in the West are still suffering the lingering effects of Cold War propaganda in their perception of Soviet tactics and capabilities. The Red Army was not just faceless hordes completely lacking in initiative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Uh oh...Capt. Elvis is sending Sgt. Schultz (this can't bode well) on a sprinting Forward Observer mission to setup some harassing artillery fire. Does not seem like a good idea at all. Wondering why he didn't have an FO hidden in place or in a location with minimal movement to a safe location from which to call in fire. Hitting the Soviets as they crossed open areas would have been a good plan, but I am afraid he has waited to long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 ^^^ Agreed. It depends on timing and a platoon HQ away from the platoon can neuter the platoon. It may be a 10 minute trip. A few to get there, several to call in the mission, then quick back to his prior location. Maybe longer than 10, but not by much. Unless he dies. It's a gamble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 One interesting quirk of Soviet organization is that they didn't have a lot of dedicated recon forces compared to other nations. When they wanted to see what was in front of them they generally ran a regular infantry, cavalry, or tank Battalion into action to see what's there. This really blurred the line between a "probe" and "recon". Confused the Hell out of the Germans from what I can tell. Don't get me wrong, the Soviets still did plenty of subtle recon. In fact, they were much better at it than the Germans were IMHO. But by and large it was easier to run a Rifle Battalion into the woods and see what was there. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Gotta love crazy ivan. I also agree in thinking that running that HQ unit out there to run a fire mission is maybe not a good idea. IME running units around on the map just tends to get them killed quick like. IF they can get there unspotted it may pay off but it's a big gamble for what he is hoping to accomplish imo. Course that's easy for me to say since I'm not playing some other guy for the whole interweb world to see and backseat drive on. He's braver than me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Steve, At divisional level, there was a Special Reconnaissance Platoon, what we'd call SpetsNaz. Here's the account of an ATR gunner who joined such a unit. This divisional asset operated 25-40 km deep. http://english.iremember.ru/infantrymen/49-vladimir-zimakov.html?q=%2Finfantrymen%2F49-vladimir-zimakov.html&start=2 On the other end of the scale, we have here a battalion fielding a "Hunters" platoon, which operates in support of battalion and regiment operations. These might well be Bil's scouts, and they are generally way better (school of hard knocks and mentoring by experienced men) than your average frontovik. Veteran with a leavening of some less experienced youngsters taken from line infantry. This is a most informative account, showing the diverse nature of missions conducted by the "Hunters." http://english.iremember.ru/infantrymen/31-ivan-kobets.html?q=%2Finfantrymen%2F31-ivan-kobets.html%3Fq%3D%2Finfantrymen%2F31-ivan-kobets.html%3Fq%3D%2Finfantrymen%2F31-ivan-kobets.html&start=3 Dadekster, The Russians used to sometimes insert FOs into the German rear, from which they'd conduct devastatingly accurate shoots. Some of these activities are described in the above, but see particularly the analysis of Russian artillery over at AllWorld Wars. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Thanks guys! Honestly, I think way too many people in the West are still suffering the lingering effects of Cold War propaganda in their perception of Soviet tactics and capabilities. The Red Army was not just faceless hordes completely lacking in initiative. Understood. Personally I've been around this place far too long to fall prey to that. But it did occur to me they had to be doing something right to make all the way back from Moscow to Berlin despite their willingness to take big losses. Even Communists can learn from their mistakes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 TEven Communists can learn from their mistakes. Say what you like about the Commies, the one thing they probably did better than any other combatant in WWII is learn from their mistakes. They made some pretty huge mistakes in 1941 (and earlier, actually), which cost them big time. But after a fairly brief period of outright shock, Stalin and Stavka sucked it up, and went to work on figuring out what went wrong, and how to fix it. Admittedly, they didn't always find the right fix on the first try. But nobody achieves this. And some of their solutions were pretty brutal. But considering the conditions they had to work under and where they started, I'd say the Red Army easily wins the "Most Improved" award for WWII. Interestingly, the German Armed Forces seem to have done exactly the opposite... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Gotta love crazy ivan. I also agree in thinking that running that HQ unit out there to run a fire mission is maybe not a good idea. IME running units around on the map just tends to get them killed quick like. IF they can get there unspotted it may pay off but it's a big gamble for what he is hoping to accomplish imo. Course that's easy for me to say since I'm not playing some other guy for the whole interweb world to see and backseat drive on. He's braver than me. Oh man... That looks like exactly like something I would have done back in my CMBO days when I was novice at all of this (now just less so. ) Unless the terrain will hide his HQ Platoon as it moves over that road/open area, they are going to die. Bill has a lot of assets over there. He is being too impatient IMHO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collingwood Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 But considering the conditions they had to work under and where they started, I'd say the Red Army easily wins the "Most Improved" award for WWII. I agree. Especially considering that Stalin had the cream of their officers killed during the 30s. Their leadership and therefore strategic doctrine started from a very low base - there was a lot to improve on. The Soviet army 1944 was almost unrecogniseable from the one of 1941, yet the 1941 version is the image most people think of when they think Russian front. Readers here excepted of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 He is being too impatient IMHO. And indecisive. My guess is that he is having second thoughts about his initial set up and is trying to do something to ameliorate it. Except his fix could well just make a bad situation worse. All in all a pattern I have duplicated rather more often than I like to admit. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migo441 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Yep, I also have a bad feeling about this dash with a precious HQ. And like Emrys and Gunnersman, my unease is flavored by the fact that this is exactly the sort of desperate move I might pull. This is a lot easier just watching! @Chops, the good news is that Sgt. Schultz has seemingly been promoted to Oberleutnant. Wait... Is that good news? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 @Chops, the good news is that Sgt. Schultz has seemingly been promoted to Oberleutnant. Wait... Is that good news? Congrats to Sgt. Schultz on his promotion, however, I don't believe he will have long to enjoy his additional pay. Cpt. Elvis seems to be deploying his force piecemeal which will not work in his favor and will surely lead to additional casualties and disaster. He does not have the manpower to send his pixeltroopers wandering about willie-nillie. I think that a better strategy may have been to keep his troops situated and dug-in, especially since they have shaky morale and not much firepower. In his favor, he still has armor, and if deployed smartly may halt the Soviet onslaught. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSTK Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Luckily, Colonel Klink is waiting in the wings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Looks like Bil just lost the intel war. Elvis has a nice bird's eye view on his assault element. Where it goes is where the attack goes. Bil is gonna have to clear those guys before making his move and I seriously doubt that is going to happen. If he feints now on the left by driving those guys a bit around the forest edge he might still retrieve the situation, but he has no reason to think he needs to do that. It looks like Elvis's team is all the way over on the point of KT 5 as Bil is terming it. Hopefully Elvis will resist the urge to have his guys saunter off into the woods from Obj Blau. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Bil is gonna have to clear those guys before making his move and I seriously doubt that is going to happen. I dunno, 122mm HE can clear out a lot. Does anyone remember where Elvis's armor is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fusselpulli Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Does anyone remember where Elvis's armor is? I bet mostly in france. the remain panzers are at objecitve red. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I don't have a particularly good handle on Elvis's capabilities. He hasn't exactly been parading his Hetzers around the map, which may be partially my fault since I haven't given him finalized textures yet. Final model only showed up yesterday so I should get on the ball. Oh, I see a Panther on his list. I'd hate to see the 122mm gun hole him through the bow and the round exit the rear engine compartment! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I dunno, 122mm HE can clear out a lot. Does anyone remember where Elvis's armor is? It can if he notices them, so far he has not and his main force is starting to cross right in front of Elvis's team. If he hides that team there he may get an excellent force assessment of what Bil has and where they are headed. The only good thing for Bil is those guys can't call an arty stonk.. That would have been a bad blow. Interesting that Bill saw Elvis's guys bail from the woods and is wondering what spooked them. Wonder if he will realize he has been spotted. Pretty exciting show so far. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Looks like Bil just lost the intel war. Elvis has a nice bird's eye view on his assault element. I think you are misinterpreting Bil's early efforts. Bil's main effort is headed up (his) extreme right. As far as I can tell, Elvis hasn't spotted this at all yet. The forces Elvis has spotted are headed up Bil's Center-Right, and are part of a "show" by Bil -- Bil wants Elvis to see these units and think the main effort is coming up that way... Looks like Bil is shooting for a wide right hook. Could be a big payoff if he achieves it, but he risks getting bogged down in the woods and running out of time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Pretty exciting show so far. So be sure to tune in next week for Episode 2,299 of this exciting adventure. And remember, kids, to eat your Wheaties™! Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Fusselpulli Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Bil's main effort is headed up (his) extreme right. As far as I can tell, Elvis hasn't spotted this at all yet. Nope, he has. Elvis know that Bil is chasing him trough the east of the woods: You can see why I am guessing that he is coming down my left side. Elvis only don´t know how many russians are in the woods, but it seems he noticed that it could be a huge force. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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