Sequoia Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I thought I'd ask about standard nomenclature of these vehicles. Are the nicknames Ferdinand and Elefant interchangable or is the Elefant the 1943 version and the Ferdinand the reworked version with a machine gun? Also was the nickname Brumbar actually used by the Germans or is it one applied after the fact such as Bishop and Jackson? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 The reworker Ferdinand briefly remained the Ferdinand. It was Hitler who renamed it the Elephant on a whim I believe. I think he had fallen out of love with Ferdinand Porsche by that time. The upgrade and name-change may have coincided but were coincidental. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umlaut Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Wikipedia says: "It was known by the nickname Brummbär (German: "Grouch")[Note 1] by Allied intelligence,[2] a name which was not used by the Germans. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brummb%C3%A4r 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I just checked my ancient falling apart von Senger und Etterlin encyclopedic reference from 1968 (the English translation) and they refer to the 'Brummbär' (Grizzly Bear). A lot of what we take for granted in naming conventions seems to come straight out of first-generation hobbyists in the 60s and early 70s. And early Tamiya kits. A Brit tanker might or might not know what an 'Achilles' was. He definitely wouldn't know what a 'Wolverine' was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chek Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I just checked my ancient falling apart von Senger und Etterlin encyclopedic reference from 1968 (the English translation) and they refer to the 'Brummbär' (Grizzly Bear). A lot of what we take for granted in naming conventions seems to come straight out of first-generation hobbyists in the 60s and early 70s. And early Tamiya kits. A Brit tanker might or might not know what an 'Achilles' was. He definitely wouldn't know what a 'Wolverine' was. That'd be true.I know the Kiwi's called the Firefly's "the 17pdr". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 ...von Senger und Etterlin...and they... You do know that von Senger und Etterlin is the name of one person, don't you? Just checking. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kensal Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 You do know that von Senger und Etterlin is the name of one person, don't you? Just checking. Michael very good 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Yes. 'und' = 'and'. But over time its formed a single compound name like 'Chamberlain & Ellis", except they got an ampersand. And more recently the unitary "Jentz and Doyle" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buq-Buq Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 The author of German Tanks of World War II: The Complete Illustrated History of German Armoured Fighting Vehicles, 1926-1945 himself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Maria_von_Senger_und_Etterlin and his father: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fridolin_von_Senger_und_Etterlin Rather apropos for the forum on CMFI. Mark 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Color me abashed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Color me abashed. oh christ, another line for Emry's sig 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 oh christ, another line for Emry's sig Oh christ, another line for Emry's sig! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Thought the Brummbar was really called the Sturmpanzer or Stupa for short. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herr_oberst Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Did anyone else think "Elefants, Ferdinands, and Brummbars, oh my!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetchez la Vache Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Did anyone else think "Elefants, Ferdinands, and Brummbars, oh my!" Immediately... Followed by a minor accident. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 That's what the Russians said at Ponyri. (j/k) (When the Elephant made its debut at the north face of Kursk, the same German formation had 90 Sturmpanzers, so the defenders indeed faced Elephants and Brummbars - and StuGs in profusion). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 That's what the Russians said at Ponyri. (j/k) (When the Elephant made its debut at the north face of Kursk, the same German formation had 90 Sturmpanzers, so the defenders indeed faced Elephants and Brummbars - and StuGs in profusion). Kursk... So there were Tigers too? Oh my! Such a shame the Germans never called any tank a "Lion". I wonder why? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 Such a shame the Germans never called any tank a "Lion". I wonder why? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VII_L%C3%B6we 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_VII_L%C3%B6we Sorry, I should have said "built" to start with, I suppose, cos it was inevitable that some design study/prototype/back of a fag packet sketch done by an anonymous Landser would have had the name "Lion" attached to it... Interesting that the Lion was dropped in favour of the Mouse. That wiki article made me laugh, specifically the bit about Hitler discarding the light version and then demanding a 6 inch gun and a 16% increase in armour in the same breath as requiring a 30% increase in top speed... Perhaps he was just pulling their legs, knowing full well that the two proposed vehicles were impracticable, let alone his "suggestions for improvement"... The same sort of sense of humour that called the most massive tank built to date a "Mouse"... :-s 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 This is a Lion - http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/guides/images/4/47/Mqlion_1913.jpg 8 13.5 inch guns and 9 inches of main belt armor, moving along at 28 knots. Puts a land lubber's "Maus" to shame - 30 years earlier. It is rather heavier and all, it is true... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Thought the Brummbar was really called the Sturmpanzer or Stupa for short. In-game we've got it labelled as the "Sturmpanzer IV" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Going back to earlier titles there was blood on the floor over proper naming conventions for British armor in the game. Mostly my blood on the flood. To this day, every time I hear the name 'Wolverine' I flinch and drop into a defensive crouch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 It is rather heavier and all, it is true... Have a bit of a problem finding bridges that could carry the weight. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Yes. On the other hand, it handles the really wide rivers just fine... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
__Yossarian0815[jby] Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I just checked my ancient falling apart von Senger und Etterlin encyclopedic reference from 1968 (the English translation) and they refer to the 'Brummbär' (Grizzly Bear). A Grizzly is not a Brummbär. brummen is the noise bears make (german ones anyway ;O) ) A Brummer is a truck. My favorite brumm word though is Transformatorbrumm, which is the humming noise that transformers make. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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