para Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I couldn't agree more, Para. As a dyed in the wool Anglophile, I hate that! Monty was " dickish" and had a tremendous ego...but Patton was just as bad. Regardless, Monty certainly was a great morale booster to his troops. And if Market Garden had worked out as planned, he would have been THE hero of the Western Theatre. I knew there was a good reason for liking you buddy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 I am sure the grogs on this forum will put me right if I am wrong, but wasn't Monty's planning input in to Operation Overlord, what made it such a success? Largely. He was good at making plans. He was not always so good at carrying them out, a fact he tried to conceal, which cost him the respect of his allies. He would always say that everything had gone according to plan, when patently it had not. The irony was that when he had to be, he was a pretty good improvisor, but he always played that side down. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Oh, I don't know...History was good to Robert E. Lee. Lee enjoyed quite a lot of success throughout his career. Besides, he was a gent. Fredendall not only bungled his one shot at command in the field, he did it in a really weird way. If he had been in Stalin's army, he'd have been shot, no questions asked. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Ther war has been over since 1945, I think? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 It just gets a bit boring when any Hollywood director goes down the bash the brit road. So, are there any non Hollywood directors that bash the Brits? Or is it the fact that Hollywood is so successful and so American that really bothers you? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 So, are there any non Hollywood directors that bash the Brits? Or is it the fact that Hollywood is so successful and so American that really bothers you? Oh I see, you are trying insinuate that I am anti American. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 It just gets a bit boring when any Hollywood director goes down the bash the brit road. Usually, it's Australian war movies where the villains are always the English regardless of who the war is being fought against. Were I English, I would be annoyed at putting Americans in movies solely for the sake of the box office where Americans had little to do with that aspect of the war. Bridge on the River Kwai and the Great Escape are both guilty of that sin. However, there is also the abortion that was U-571 that really did twist history to make the American involvement in capturing the Enigma machine something it wasn't. As far as Montgomery is concerned, I suspect most Americans view him as a more successful version of the excessively cautious George McClellan, who also shared with Montgomery an unjustified out of control egotism. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altipueri Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Well that should confuse them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Oh I see, you are trying insinuate that I am anti American. Yes. I think that may be true. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Yes. I think that may be true. Based on what? Actually, do not respond I am not going to get into an argument with you. You believe what you want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Oh I see, you are trying insinuate that I am anti American. Everyone's anti american nowadays, even the Americans 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Everyone's anti american nowadays, even the Americans Troo dat. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Everyone's anti american nowadays, even the Americans I'm anti fox news which is probably Nidan1 favourite station ;-p 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Troo dat. Michael Speak for yourself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Based on what? Actually, do not respond I am not going to get into an argument with you. You believe what you want. All right, I won't, we'll leave things civil and as they are. Happy New Year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Were I English, I would be annoyed at putting Americans in movies solely for the sake of the box office where Americans had little to do with that aspect of the war. Ha this is far more widespread than that. Anyone notice both female leads in Memoirs of a Geisha are Chinese? Have any idea how much that irks Japanese? Granted both actresses are very good and were coming off Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, however Japan is not exactly short of good female actresses. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 All right, I won't, we'll leave things civil and as they are. Happy New Year. Happy New Year to you too 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Gosh most of these movies look terrible. I had to go to position 12 and 14 to find something that looked like I might not hate it. The Saints and Soliders thing they already did was barely enjoyable but I'm afraid they'd slip more because it wasn't "popular" enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Speak for yourself. Don't I always? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 You do realize 'war' movies are just formula genre movies, costume melodramas like film noir, cowboy and science fiction. Their success or failure is based on their fulfilling expectations rather than breaking new ground. I recall a comedy spoof of Tom Gun (ugh). The nicest guy in the unit, the guy with the prettiest fiance, with most to live for had the call sign "Dead Meat" - because in these formula flicks we know what happens to the nicest guy, the sweetest wife, the trusting urchin who gets adopted by the unit. Sure, some war movies broke the mould. But they're few and far between. And for the most part war movie buffs don't like them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus Sertorius Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Were I English, I would be annoyed at putting Americans in movies solely for the sake of the box office where Americans had little to do with that aspect of the war. Bridge on the River Kwai and the Great Escape are both guilty of that sin. However, there is also the abortion that was U-571 that really did twist history to make the American involvement in capturing the Enigma machine something it wasn't. True, but then there's Master and Commander that replaced an American frigate with a godless French frigate. As far as Montgomery is concerned, I suspect most Americans view him as a more successful version of the excessively cautious George McClellan, who also shared with Montgomery an unjustified out of control egotism. I'd say most Americans have no idea who Montgomery was, and even fewer any idea who McClellan was. Personally my favorite WW2 movie is still Kelly's Heroes, since it managed to get the equipment and scenery better than 90% of the war movies I've seen despite having a completely fictional story. Not only is it entertaining, but it avoids all arguments about historical accuracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I'd say most Americans have no idea who Montgomery was, and even fewer any idea who McClellan was. Id say you.re right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Id say you.re right. Which is a sad state of affairs for this country. Even so, how many people in other countries know a lot about historical figures of their own land? Let alone of a different country? To a thirty year old in the US today, WWII history is so far in the past for them, it might as well be of no value, and knowing about a British General!, not happening. The American Civil War?, that might as well be Athens vs. Sparta....who cares about that? Its just a fact of modern life, unless people have a particular interest in history and historical figures, anything more than ten years in the past is ancient. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Its just a fact of modern life, unless people have a particular interest in history and historical figures, anything more than ten years in the past is ancient. I agree, but I always wonder -- why??? When did people start thinking the past -- even recent past -- meant nothing to them? Having no awareness of how much they're saying and doing now are so shaped by the past? Worse, to have not even the curiosity to learn more about it once they accidentally become aware of history? Or -- worse than worse -- to wear their ignorance about it like a badge of honor? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Or -- worse than worse -- to wear their ignorance about it like a badge of honor? These are the morons that bug me the most. And they're all over the place; in the media, at work, family gatherings, wargame forums.... :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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