xian Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Might it be reasonable to give a wounded soldier who is currently being treated by a medic a very slim chance of returning to the 'lightly wounded' state? This might represent those wounded that were perhaps only in shock or whose wounds were not as bad as first thought. It would also provide a greater reward for those prepared to risk their troops by sending in medics. Too gamey? or reasonable? Thoughts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 If you were even superficially injured in combat, and were shocked, would you go back to fighting immediately? If you were lightly injured, and it took some 'friendly' knocking around to get you active, would you still be mentally capable of fighting? My guess would be no. Generally men didn't like getting shot at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xian Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 You are probably quite right. I wasn't really thinking about specifics. I just thought that once in a while a medic might find a guy that could be returned to the battlefield. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It's fine how it is modeled now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You are probably quite right. I wasn't really thinking about specifics. I just thought that once in a while a medic might find a guy that could be returned to the battlefield. Every once in a very great while, possibly. Probably the most likely way this would happen would be a soldier who thinks he might be seriously wounded, but actually isn't -- for example, a soldier who has been knocked head over teakettle and had the wind knocked out of him by an explosion, but hasn't actually been perforated by shrapnel. Speaking from personal experience, the initial effects of being hit by the concussive force of a nearby explosion are highly disorienting, and for at least a few seconds, there's a fair amount of nonspecific pain, even if you aren't actually significantly hurt. In a case like this, *rarely*, a couple of minutes of buddy aid might convince said soldier that he's actually OK, and doesn't need a trip back to the battalion aid station. A whiff of smelling salts, a quick all-over body check to make sure there are no new holes, and a bit of a pep talk. That sort of thing. But only rarely. I don't think it's something that would happen often enough to really be worth the effort of putting into the game, and in any event you could also interpret the morale rally system in the game as abstractly representing this sort of thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatmasta Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 And slightly wounded soldiers are already modelled in the game. You can imagine that they will get some buddy aid from the nearest fellow and then they will carry on but slower that unhurt troops 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'd love to see a generic 1-2 man unarmed or pistol-armed unit in the game that can b designated for various support tasks such as medic or ammo bearer. But I'd sooner have men able to drag casualties out of the line of fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statisoris Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I would love to see a cheap (~15 points) 1 or 2 man combat medic team added to the force selection. They would work well with the current buddy aid system, except that they would be far more eager to instantly treat all wounded than the random guy from the Company over the hill. It would also be neat if AI were coded to avoid shooting at medics if possible. I don't know how that would work out, but it would be interesting. Lastly, it would make me feel more honorable if medic units had some toggle option to treat enemy units. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaza_Olmedo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 It would also be neat if AI were coded to avoid shooting at medics if possible. I don't know how that would work out, but it would be interesting. Totally agree...today my troops killed a single german in the open while performing buddy aid...it didn't felt right... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You want realism or Disneyland version of WW2? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Bear in mind that the "buddy aid" currently in the game isn't intended to represent true medics (i.e., the guys with red crosses on their helmets). It's simply intended to represent regular soldiers administering basic first aid treatment, until the true medic and/or stretcher bearer team can get to the casualty. Presumably, the time the casualty "disappears" in CM is is when the dedicated medic takes over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaza_Olmedo Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 You want realism or Disneyland version of WW2? I don’t think that respecting the Geneva convention qualifies as Disneyland or as something more unrealistic than your troops avoiding targeting surrendered units among total mayhem just because they raise their hands. The true issue here is that “medics” (which, as Yankee Dog pointed out, aren't really medics) are actual combatants so I guess it would be almost impossible for the AI to distinguish when it would be appropriate to shoot at them. Of course, this is a really unimportant problem, considering that target arc should do the trick. Anyway, I just say that if someday medic teams were implemented, it would be nice if they could be automatically treated as surrendered troops, unless you specifically target them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I don't think BFC is interested in making this part of the simulation any more elaborate than it currently is. It's pretty trivial, CMx1 didn't even have any form of buddy aid and I don't think it mattered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 There were many anecdotes from the Western front of both sides holding fire on clearly marked medics and ambulances. I'd guess this probably happened far more often on balance than shooters deliberately targeting them. The most frequent occurrence, I suspect, is that the medic is partly out of view of the enemy, and his identity and activities are not apparent, or he is in proximity to other men who are actively shooting. So the enemy does not withhold fire and this gives rise to an "atrocity" rumour in men already predisposed to think the worst of their enemies. As the war went on and the Germans became more fanatical, their snipers in particular started to play by harsher rules, e.g. gut shooting a guy to use as bait for anyone coming to his aid. Which was why they didn't tend to be taken prisoner if identified. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 As the war went on and the Germans became more fanatical, their snipers in particular started to play by harsher rules, e.g. gut shooting a guy to use as bait for anyone coming to his aid. Which was why they didn't tend to be taken prisoner if identified. As seen in "Tales of Vitual Combat" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejetset Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I've seen this topic pop up a time or two on the forums. I don't think it would be too unrealistic to have maybe a 5% chance of a wounded guy being able to come back into action with a yellow "hurt" status as a result of receiving buddy aid. This would provide additional incentive to administer aid. .... The RL rational might be a scenario were they soldier was hurt, but after having someone reviewed the wound and after having the initial impact shock tone down some ... he realizes that he can keep going a little while longer until the fighting is over and he can get aid somewhere a little further back off the line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 While I like the incentive aspect of this idea, it seems doubtful it would be implemented. It is hard to tell sometimes where BFC will draw the line as "beyond the scope". There are quite a few different ideas floating on the forums that deal with wounded and buddy aid, and some are quite good. I think it would be easier to adjust the AAR scoring to reflect buddy aid efforts. This is currently not an option for designers, but could put more life into the effort with a minimum of coding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I don't think it would be too unrealistic to have maybe a 5% chance of a wounded guy being able to come back into action Is this 5% based on some kind of study or something? Because I have heard of people shooting themselves in the foot to get away from the front being an epidemic problem, but I haven't heard of many instances of injured men insisting on staying in combat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Uh, except for just about every citation for conspicuous gallantry I can ever recall reading. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Uh, except for just about every citation for conspicuous gallantry I can ever recall reading. Sure, but there's just no way that these were 1 in 20 of wounded soldiers. How many thousands of wounded soldiers were there in Normandy, and how many citations of conspicuous gallantry were there? It would be very hard to come up with an actual ratio, but I'd say you could confidently set the highest possible probability at 1 in 100, and go up from there. Bear in mind we already have "yellow" wounded soldiers continuing to fight in CM. So "conspicuous gallantry" after being wounded is already modeled, to a degree. And we also already have commanders with high command ratings, who can give a virtual pep talk to a panicked "yellow" wounded soldier, and convince him to get back in the fight. What we're looking for here is the rare incident where a soldier thinks he's wounded badly enough to be out of the fight, and then a comrade somehow "patches him up", or otherwise administers some sort of aid that gets him back in the fight. Possible? Certainly. Rare? Absolutely. Would it be fun to see a soldier go from "red" wounded to "yellow" wounded once per couple of dozen CM scenarios I play? Sure, if I happened to even notice it. Is it at all important to gameplay? I really don't think so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Yes, I'm not using citations for any kind of serious analysis of battlefield norms, just saying that not every soldier eagerly grabbed that "Blighty wound" at once. Like I said before I'd rather see soldiers able to drag casualties to cover than dedicated medics or any kind of "healing" feature. I'm content with things as they are now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 ...Like I said before I'd rather see soldiers able to drag casualties to cover than dedicated medics or any kind of "healing" feature. I'm content with things as they are now. +1 to that. There have been numerous times I've had a casualty less than 10m from a bocage line or other LOS break, and I've thought that the most logical (and realistic) way to handle the situation would be to lay down suppressive fire for 30 seconds or so while I send a couple of guys out to drag the WIA back under cover. Be nice to see a way to do this added to the game somehow. I would also love to see some sort of scoring option that gives incentive to recovery of WIA. Perhaps this should be optional, depending on scenario designer preference, but I think it would be a good way to encourage realistic gameplay. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Not holding my breath though. Anything that requires the team to program new animations or even static figure poses is going to be tacked on to the bottom of a verrrrry longggggg list. Things like machine gunners who prop their weapons up on whatever instead of firing from the shoulder like riflemen rate a way higher priority.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 From many moons ago... ...As I said earlier... we are not going to do "Combat Mission Field Medic - A WIA/KIA Simulator", but we are going to do our best to have some realistic ramfications for suffering WIA/KIAs. Steve http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=582909&postcount=8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I would love to see Paratroopers actually drop from the sky and gliders to land/crash and troopers to disembark. sadly, this unlikely to happen. BFC think it is not necessary and so do many others. Are dedicated medics necessary? Surely, what occurs now is satisfactory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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