WeGo option for TCP/IP?

[Aman1212]

Sorry if this question has been answered before but this is a make or break for me buying the game or not.

I really enjoyed the original CMs especially playing with friends and having it in the wego setup.

Sourly disappointed when Shock Force came out since the concept seemed awesome but now it was some real time gameplay which personally I don't like.

Can me, and a friend hundreds of miles away from me play the game in a turn based style?

[sburke]

Sorry if this question has been answered before but this is a make or break for me buying the game or not.

I really enjoyed the original CMs especially playing with friends and having it in the wego setup.

Sourly disappointed when Shock Force came out since the concept seemed awesome but now it was some real time gameplay which personally I don't like.

Can me, and a friend hundreds of miles away from me play the game in a turn based style?

in PBEM mode yes, download the demo and give it a shot. A lot of us that do use dropbox or something similar and HTH helper to facilitate file transfers. It works pretty darn good.

[~Viajero]

Dropbox and similar tools make so easy to play the game turn-based and so efficient that it can be played "almost" at the same speed as the old TCP-IP I reckon. You still have to wait for your opponent´s turn but hey, not that long.

If in addition to dropbox etc you also use this little application to manage the turns that warns you when new ones are in etc then it can be done seemlessly:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=101060

Chat these days should not be an issue... msn, skype, teamspeak, ventrilo, you name it.

Arrange a game with a friend like you used to do for TCP-IP, share the Dropbox folder and away you go!

[Mord]

Sourly disappointed when Shock Force came out since the concept seemed awesome but now it was some real time gameplay which personally I don't like.

Damn, man. You must not of paid much attention to what was going on 'cause I hate RT too and CMSF had/has WEGO! I played a few PBEMs just using plain email and it was actually better than CMX1 cause every turn after the setups is view/give orders...or give orders/view depending on who went first. No more of that extra file swapping.

However you can't play WEGO head to head (IE: Online)....so that may turn you off to it. But as others (and me) have said, PBEM works pretty sweet. Better than nothing.

If you are remotely interested in Modern you should check CMSF out as well...It is a blast.

Mord.

[Tactical Wargamer]

Sorry if this question has been answered before but this is a make or break for me buying the game or not.

I really enjoyed the original CMs especially playing with friends and having it in the wego setup.

Sourly disappointed when Shock Force came out since the concept seemed awesome but now it was some real time gameplay which personally I don't like.

Can me, and a friend hundreds of miles away from me play the game in a turn based style?

Looks like for WEGO MP online you will have to wait for the next engine deisgn. I think the bulge series. I would think couple of years for that though

[Catacol Highlander]

It's been a game breaker for me. CMBN 2 player RT is a farce and cant be done effectively - my regular opponent and I tried it and it failed dismally. I think it is a great pity that a step backwards was taken here and it wasnt a priority for BF to keep a wego 2 player online option going, but there we go - it happened.

I bought the game but have therefore now migrated to other wargames. BF have my money but they have lost a fair slice of my customer loyalty. Seems to me that when a sequel to a game is brought out - even with a new engine - an effort should be made to keep the methods of play similar and the customer base strong. BF I think decided to reach out to a new customer base without sufficient regard for their existing one, the one that made their name in the first place.

There isnt even a pause button to allow manufactured wego online - an amazing decision and indicative of how little regard they had for the online 2 player community. PBEM still works fine of course, but wego was the revolutionnary system that made CM unique, and 2 player unique wego gaming was a blast - fantastic stuff.

Drop box isnt the same - doubles the amount of time to play a game. It's just manufactured pbem.

Altogether very disappointing.

[Tactical Wargamer]

It's been a game breaker for me. CMBN 2 player RT is a farce and cant be done effectively - my regular opponent and I tried it and it failed dismally. I think it is a great pity that a step backwards was taken here and it wasnt a priority for BF to keep a wego 2 player online option going, but there we go - it happened.

I bought the game but have therefore now migrated to other wargames. BF have my money but they have lost a fair slice of my customer loyalty. Seems to me that when a sequel to a game is brought out - even with a new engine - an effort should be made to keep the methods of play similar and the customer base strong. BF I think decided to reach out to a new customer base without sufficient regard for their existing one, the one that made their name in the first place.

There isnt even a pause button to allow manufactured wego online - an amazing decision and indicative of how little regard they had for the online 2 player community. PBEM still works fine of course, but wego was the revolutionnary system that made CM unique, and 2 player unique wego gaming was a blast - fantastic stuff.

Drop box isnt the same - doubles the amount of time to play a game. It's just manufactured pbem.

Altogether very disappointing.

Couldn't agree with you more. It was a major disappointment for many. I thought after CMSF they would bring it back. Sadly no.

That being said I would encourage you to stick with CMBN....if we don't they will feel no need to implement such important features.... Although there are a few competitors I don't think you will find any thing better on the market....Ostfront has all the MP options but the UI and gameplay is not really all that close to CMBN.

I really think Steve wants to implement some sort of superiour MP options.

I have resorted to playing multiple hot seat games with our LAN group (mind you I did that also with Flight Commander 2 in the early 90's from battlefront ).

Lets hope the next engine will have it built in some option than just realtime action fest. Old guys like me in the 40's just can't handle anything more that maybe a platoon on a good day.

[Pandur]

i have fallen pretty much out of the skies with CMx2 by now. after initial dissapointment about no included TCP/IP WEGO i was happy to hear that it was planed to implement at a later point. 4 and a half years back, mid 2007 when CMSF was released i was optimistic about TCP/IP WEGO and its inclusion at a later date.

at first it was said that its planed for "normandy" game, then it was decided its not in the normandy game. somewhere around the same point the "replay" got cut from TCP/IP WEGO "model". the replay does play the biggest part in huge file sizes of files and up to this point the latest TCP/IP WEGO model they want to implement is actually RT with 60 sec auto pause and NO replay. i mean what good is that, who would use that?

so in 4 and a half years i turned from an optimistic follower into a very pessimistic follower still.

i am still hear almost daily and read the new stuff , but actually i dont care anymore. pre orders or CMBN brit module? i couldnt give less a bout it.

i still like the game in a vacuum that is, but hardly play it anymore, the AI(or collection of scripts) is boring to play and multiplayer options are a joke for a slow paced tactical game.

realtime and play by carrier pigeon....wow what a line up

for me CMx2 is about as dead as it gets without TCP/IP WEGO(with friggin replay!) on the horizon. the TCP/IP model that is somewhere far far far down the horizon does not excite anyone, and first of all not me.

i will surely invite some flaming there for saying after 4 and a half years i can see that realtime has done nothing good to combat mission. at first it looked like it could to me, but now after the dust has settled RT gameplay has in fact hurt WEGO a lot. you notice that the devs hardly play WEGO it seems, even steve says he enjoys playing realtime up to battalion strengh, so this is a RT game through and through now.

yes you have WEGO bolted on but you all played it, its not as good as in CMx1 nor does it have the wealth of movement and combat commands you need for that type of playstyle to get it back to CMx1 level of quality.

i think if they could have done so without outrage they would have ditched WEGo compleatly but had to include it for nostalgia reasons or some other weird reason.

anyways i am utterly disapointed by the way the CMx2 engine went along, my original planes to skip normandy game and go directly for east front are in fact terminated. if i rly feel like playing eastfront i go CMBB and have some retro fun in TCP/IP WEGO with the oh so sweet replay.

EDIT:

what a sad thread this is...

[A Canadian Cat]

<snip>i think if they could have done so without outrage they would have ditched WEGo compleatly but had to include it for nostalgia reasons or some other weird reason.<snip>

I really hope that is only this one person's feeling. For me in a future game "no WEGO" or "no PBEM" = "no longer a customer".

[Holien]

2 Player WEGO would be very welcome and allow for quicker game play but for old farts to take comfort breaks and deal with her indoors... I too hope it is re-introduced...

Is it me or does there seem to be less buzz about the game than CMB? Is it that we are just using rose coloured specs to view the history of our youth?

[LongLeftFlank]

CMx1 is a traditional ASL-style tactical wargame nicely rendered into 3d. It's good for battalion level fights, but IMHO to wargame "in the boots" (omniscience issues aside) of a company or platoon commander you simply can't beat CMx2 (the current engine). The two games are simply different, at least when it comes to infantry (CM1 was already 1:1 on an AFV scale so it hasn't changed so much).

Neither CMBO nor ASL is going to explain to you just how a single sniper can pin down an entire rifle platoon for an hour, or exactly why and how 9 out of 10 Allied infantry attacks stalled within yards of their LDs under a withering rain of German MG and mortar fire. Maybe that's not why you wargame, but there are plenty of us who want that and are delighted that there's a game company and community with the stones to pursue this segment of wargaming. For those who want a higher scale and less micro there are plenty of other options out there for you.

The engine will evolve over time, absolutely, to tweak things like infantry cover seeking and ability of buttoned tanks to sniff out concealed infantry, and to add features like true CoPlay, AI "triggers", more autonomous road pathing and perhaps unit SOPs (formations). But that's hard for a small shop to deliver in one mouthful.

So the demos are always free: keep trying them and who knows, someday the engine may fit your personal comfort level. Don't give up.

[Pandur]

@LLF

fair response

CMx1 is a traditional ASL-style tactical wargame nicely rendered into 3d. It's good for battalion level fights, but IMHO to wargame "in the boots" (omniscience issues aside) of a company or platoon commander you simply can't beat CMx2 (the current engine). The two games are simply different, at least when it comes to infantry (CM1 was already 1:1 on an AFV scale so it hasn't changed so much).

Neither CMBO nor ASL is going to explain to you just how a single sniper can pin down an entire rifle platoon for an hour, or exactly why and how 9 out of 10 Allied infantry attacks stalled within yards of their LDs under a withering rain of German MG and mortar fire. Maybe that's not why you wargame, but there are plenty of us who want that and are delighted that there's a game company and community with the stones to pursue this segment of wargaming. For those who want a higher scale and less micro there are plenty of other options out there for you.

its not so much that i favour CMx1 over CMx2, i actually liked the more simulation like feel to it, i like the bullet tracking and all the fleshed out simulation stuff, even if some of it is overdone or questionable in mm eyes(sub system damage, over accurate arty etc...), the engine is great in theory. but the format it is played at did change and this is what bothers me.

it simply boils down to the fact that they felt the need to accomodate WEGO and RT in the same game, and WEGO is on the loosing end.

it has less control options for battle and movement although in the smaler scale you should have MORE not less of control and options.

however it wouldn not work in RT and there the cat bits its tail.

and along with this goes that i loged so many days playtime trashing the so called AI and iam fed up with it, its boring. i need human meat and i cant consume it the way i am used to. PBEM is to slow and RT...forgett it.

thats my problems, i starve multiplayer but cant get any in this engine, since mid 2007. its frustrating and its pointless for me to buy more CMx2 parts as long as i am pitched against AI.

[Catacol Highlander]

My main problem with real time 2 player is that it ceases to become a game of skill and planning, and becomes one instead that focuses on speed of play. I am in my 40s but not quite an old duffer yet! I happily play Battlefield 3 and cope with all the whipper snappers, and have been known to give the odd youngster a good whooping at Fifa 12 on the Xbox.

But CM was a game that played to the wargaming audience. In other words it excited those who had played board games, done 1:72 model gaming with dice, fiddled around with Panzer General or Steel Panthers etc etc. It was about tactics and, with a big enough map, it was about strategy even if it was never really designed to model battalion level stuff.

Now? My brain needs to be quick, and my mouse even quicker. Dont get me wrong - I did not write this game off without trying it. I fired up some multiplayer games with my long running opponent and we did our best to give orders to tanks, send sections out on recce, position that mg in the right place.... but to be doing that while the clock ticks actually, in my opinion, makes it LESS realistic because you cannot accurately simulate simultaneous movement. Under WEgo with a 15min clock I could make sure that the orders for my tanks, my mgs, my spotter, etc were all implemented so that they happened AT THE SAME TIME. In other words the battle played more realisitically, becuase no soldier on a real battlefield ever sits in a shell hole doing nothing for 2 mins at a time when there is stuff to be done.

However now? With so much action going on the mg on the hill covering the road gets left alone. In fact it is only after a quick map scroll that you realise the enemy has started to lay down suppressing fire and flank it. By the time you realise that has happened - becuase you were busy sorting out the frontal assault on the farmhouse down the road, or the shape of your armoured platoon as it crested the rise 400m to the south, your mg is a gonner. That armoured car you had positioned in reserve never went up to help it - because it was humanly impossible to keep tabs with all the action in 3, 4, 5, 6 or more zones at once.

Bottom line is that the only way to make it work real time is to play with such small forces where contact areas may be only 1 or 2 zones, and the map is small enough to need very little panning...

... and for that reason I dont play cm2 anymore. I have no interest in a platoon sized engagement. I certainly have no interest in playing the AI - false challenge that. I have no interest in playing a wargame that punishes me for not noticing (or being able) to keep up with the action. Wego CM1 meant that every unit was accounted for each turn, unless I made a hideous mistake in my 15min turn and forget to do a final cycle through all my units.

BF argue it is more realistic. Engine-wise it is. But game-wise it isnt and the wargaming fun has gone - the old board game, panzer general audience has probably almost universally been alienated.

And I dont think it bothers BF one bit becuase they are now making more money by producing a very detailed product that caters for the Command and Conquer / Warhammer / Company of Heroes etc generation. Probably a younger generation - yes. I dont begrudge them that - making a living is making a living and if it makes money then they would be foolish not to do it.

But I am disappointed nonetheless. CM1 was revolutionnary in its make up. With a new CM2 engine that remained loyal to its wargaming background it had the potential to be so so much better, and keep its unique niche in the market. But that's gone now. It would be a major U-turn in policy if future engines rebuilt the miltiplayer wego concept. It wont happen, though a small optimistic part of my brain thinks a pause button might be a goer. Just maybe...

So I have just built yet another CMBB operation and will start it next week with my opponent in a 2 hour online wego session. CMBB is still there; CMAK and its modded CMETO are still there. Th engine is a bit flawed; there are bits in terms of spotting etc that are inaccurate... there are some problems with graphics (although not with my new GX560 I am glad to say) but it will continue to be a much better multiplayer product than cm2.

So let's stop whining and just get back to cm1. Nothing wrong with that. Let the new/young generation click their way through cm2 believing they are fighting a realistic battle while parts of their army wither on the vine of AI control and lack of orders. They will never know what they are missing by failing to see the beauty of cm1 wego over the net.

[Wreck]

You'll never see me playing RT either, for the reasons you mention. However: what about PBEM? With H2HH you can cut out the email and file copying. No, it's still not the same as TCP WEGO -- no simultaneous plotting is possible. (I am sure we won't see it for a while, but adapting email to work like TCP WEGO in allowing simultaneous turn-plotting should be an item on BFC's todo.) Still, it's a fun and worthwhile game. Just make sure to have something to do while your opponent does his turn. Surf the web or something. Bring a book.

[A Canadian Cat]

You'll never see me playing RT either, for the reasons you mention. However: what about PBEM? With H2HH you can cut out the email and file copying.

<snip>

Just make sure to have something to do while your opponent does his turn. Surf the web or something. Bring a book.

And while the game loads - for that you need a book no web surfing while the game reads in the next PBEM file.

This will be the number one issue for people who want to do WEGO over TCP/IP. Every PBEM turn will cost them 3 to 5 minutes just for the game to load. That long load time is my least favorite part of PEBM but at least at a turn per day rate there it is not a significant time compared to the 24 hours in a day. However with TCP/IP support there would be no need to reload the game every turn - what a time saver that would be.

[chocice]

can someone please tell me what PEBM and TCP/IP and any other abbreviations mean?!!

very confused.com!!

[Wreck]

PBEM -- "play by email". Two computers are used. Files are used to transfer turns between computers.

TCP/IP -- the network protocol used by all modern computers to talk to each other. In the case of CM, playing via TCP/IP means playing a game where the two computers are talking to each other directly to transfer turns. Files (as such) are not used. CMx1 supports TCP/IP play.

Realtime mode -- in CMBN, a non-turn-based way to play. Time advances in real time, 1 second per second, although IIRC it can be paused.

WEGO mode -- a method of play where both players plot their moves without knowing what the other is doing, and then, when both players are done (or time runs out), the turn is resolved by the game engine incorporating the new input from both players. WEGO turn plotting is simultaneous in TCP/IP mode (CMx1 only), keeping both players busy most of the time. In PBEM mode (all CM games), only one player does his moves at one time.

[chocice]

thank you wreck, clear as mud!!

[buzzPC]

CH and i.l have pretty much summed up the MP issues for me. Wouldn't the optimal solution be RT with pause and 30 sec replay feature? Available for both MP and AI gaming.

Is there anyone still playing CMBB/CMAK via tcp? Anyone up for a game?

[Gurra]

Yes. Though you will not hear me saying hos much better cm x1 was, wego tcp is the ultimate

point of whether cm x 2 will have my final and adoring attention. As it stands now, cmx1 is the be the very tempting choice for H2H.

[kulik]

I understand the limitations of the CMx2 in terms of proper TCP/IP WEGO mode.

I do think that having the online realtime mode with automatic pausing is a great compromise. I secretly hope it will be implemented with some of the upcoming module (More secretly that it will be in the upcoming one.).

At least for me it will make the difference weather i buy normandy of will wait for eastern front (where hopefully it will be implemented).

[Gurra]

What exactly would these limitations be?

[Tactical Wargamer]

I understand the limitations of the CMx2 in terms of proper TCP/IP WEGO mode.

I do think that having the online realtime mode with automatic pausing is a great compromise. I secretly hope it will be implemented with some of the upcoming module (More secretly that it will be in the upcoming one.).

At least for me it will make the difference weather i buy normandy of will wait for eastern front (where hopefully it will be implemented).

I guess we just have to keep the faith and hope Steve can squeeze in some sort of MP compromise someday....

[Catacol Highlander]

I guess we just have to keep the faith and hope Steve can squeeze in some sort of MP compromise someday....

I dont think this will happen soon. There is no major profit in it, and the engine has been optimised and designed for the bigger 1 player market.

Agree with an earlier post on pbem - of course still an option, and I may give that a go again (I play a lot of Strategic Command that way) but online gaming is increasingly about playing head to head with your opponent whether it be PS3 or PC. Better use of time, more exciting. In this regard, by eliminating the realistic ability to play effectively head to head online, BF may have missed a trick in terms of the overall direction of multiplayer gaming.

Best hope is that multiplayer gaming continues to grow, and that head to head wargaming grows with it with other products. If that happens, and profit is seen in it, then I am sure it will be reintroduced - but that is long rather than medium term if you ask me.

Still dont quite understand why a pause button wasnt in there from the start though. Shows just how far off the radar multiplayer options had dropped when the game was being designed.

[sfhand]

And while the game loads - for that you need a book no web surfing while the game reads in the next PBEM file...

I want to respond to you but must start with the assumption that you didn't really mean while the "game" loads - I find that the game loads quickly while the scenarios take a long time to load. If that assumption is correct then consider the following: problems/challenges around eliminating that lengthy scenario loading process is probably the reason there is no tcp-ip wego.

I have said before that an ability to alt-tab out of the loading screen would make things a lot more bearable for people like me. I use h2hh and play pbem against multiple opponents which gives me a lot of game time per sitting - and a lot of sitting around @ 29%.