Bud Backer

Scratch two Shermans…
 

 

Do you ever think before you type?

The SdKfz 251/3 Engineer half track comes to mind. Just a cost-ineffective way to transport a lot less men than in the 251/1 variant, but it’s in the game nonetheless because it fits real life TO&E. I buy them because I want to have a realistic feel to my formations. 

The SdKfz 251/3 Engineer half track comes to mind. Just a cost-ineffective way to transport a lot less men than in the 251/1 variant, but it’s in the game nonetheless because it fits real life TO&E. I buy them because I want to have a realistic feel to my formations. 

The SdKfz 251/3 Engineer half track comes to mind. Just a cost-ineffective way to transport a lot less men than in the 251/1 variant, but it’s in the game nonetheless because it fits real life TO&E. I buy them because I want to have a realistic feel to my formations. 

Let’s stop the hyperbole train because it really just derails any serious discussion, ok?
I agree that that pricing of some units feels off, including the StuG and the Panzer IV. I also think the Abrams is too cheap in CMBS.
But I don’t think you can argue that the PZIv is too expensive because it can be killed with an M8’s 37mm. So can a Panther or JagdPanther. Shall we suggest then that they should cost perhaps the same as a Sherman? Or perhaps that the panzerfaust, since it can take out a Jumbo, should cost 400 points? I think few would find that sensible.
Is the Panzer IV most costly because it has better long range capabilities? I don’t know. Balancing these costs is very tricky, as there can be many arguments for shifting that purchase price up or down and they would be quite reasonable propositions, depending on specific circumstances. And it’s those circumstances that have to be gauged and weighed for probability of occurring. Yes, the M8 can take out a Panther. How often does that happen if people of reasonable competence are playing both sides? Should the M8 be bumped up to cost 300, 400 points on that basis? I think not. Certainly the Panther user could present an argument to do so.  But I think if we genuinely try to be fair we can see that it’s not a truly comfortable argument to make.
Regarding strafing aircraft, they (I believe) are fairly inexpensive because they are simply not incredibly effective. I’m sure we have all lost a few men to them, but a strafer causing serious harm on a regular basis? I remain unconvinced that that is true. 

I know that Pearl Harbor went out with Paul Simonon for a time. Luckily for them that was before the garbacious movie was made. Give me "Tora! Tora! Tora!" any day.

I see your post has generated the usual "the sky is falling", "no it's not" discussion...
You did get the right answers sprinkled in there. So, let me summarize, here are the ways you can see what your units can see:
Get down to their level and look: With the exception of kneeling and prone soldiers you can get to the level of your units. For soldiers just tap '1' to get to the lowest level. For vehicles I recommend taping '2' and then using our mouse wheel. Normally tall vehicles are one wheel click lower than camera level two and the lowest are three clicks down. Use the target tool: Select the unit and use the target tool to see what they can hit. The UI gives you feedback. No line of sight means you aren't going to see anything there. Reverse slope means you cannot see the ground but if something tall enough appears you have a chance of seeing that. Tanks can also give you the note partial hull down or hull down. Those mean that only occupants of the turret can see that location. Combine the target tool with additional way points: By setting exploratory way points on the map for your unit you can select the way points and then use the target tool to see what they can see once they get to that location. The one draw back for soldiers is that it will use their current stance for the test. So if you have a squad that is walking (all standing) you might find they unable to see what you wanted if once they get there they go prone or kneel. And visa versa. Also remember this game tries to model spotting realistically (there is no "insta spot feature"(tm)) so even if you unit can see a particular area you are not guaranteed to spot enemy units at that location. Your men have to notice them. Give them time at a location before you declare there is nothing out there. This is also a good reasons to position them in a location that has some cover and concealment for that observation period because any enemy will be looking for them too.

What about them Erwin?
They're human beings and they deserve to be able to do what anyone else can in the US military.
The only thing your good for is sitting in your chair and bitching about people taking jobs or something, luckily your backwards disgusting opinions are all very unpopular with most of the country. Keep your bigoted views to yourself or find some obscure dirty hole on the internet where you can whine.

No here speaks a man who has deployed on operations with females.  Afghanistan 2012 ... day two of a PSYOPs deployment with a company team to Deh Rawud.

It's a movie made by guys with pretensions of fidelity but is really fairly by-the-numbers American Action-Melodrama. The action sequences in it are certainly problematic-but I think the biggest problem is that they're not very exciting and are badly planned. Why are the Germans in X treeline? What's the reason for approaching them head on? When I watched interviews with the Director and Producer years ago they both seemed to have a very foggy idea about the kind of film they wanted to make. In the end the whole film really just feels like recordings of re-enactors fighting mock battles you could see at...well...your local re-enactment group. 
By comparison Saving Private Ryan and Thin Red Line are both way better movies in just about every sense-with Directors who understood that their first objective was a compelling drama merely backgrounded by-the Second World War. That's where Fury just totally fumbles to me. It's a movie that's trying to be about World War 2...a subject far too dense to confront with a 135 minute film by itself. This confusion of setting for story and story for setting is the underline to me. 

The dark May skies were laden with rain as the trucks trundled up the hill. Sound of laughter and boys’ voices pitched high with bravado filled the canvas tops of the trucks.

Glorious March to Victory, Final Post - "Like Tears in Rain"
Well big thank you to all who watched.  I figure I should stop leaving you all hanging, so we cease fired on the last turn (33 I believe).  Now take the end-screen with a grain of salt:

So first off there was a dumb double-accounting error for the Soviet side.  Basically the parameters were:
En Cas 50% = 50 VPs
En Condition 50% = 50 VPs
Dollbach Village = 100 VPs.
The error was the Soviets had another 100 VPs for having fewer than/better than 50% cas/cond, so I subtracted that because if we had paid attention Bil was above 50% too.  So the score was really 100 because I held the town.  (Note, also a small error in that his M150s were counted as tanks...a bug we noted for fixing)
The outstanding question is "could Bil have reduced me to 50% without going there himself"...that one is tougher.   So for Soviets:
215 men: lost 71 = 33%
17 Tanks: lost 10 = 58%
17 AFVs: lost 9 = 53%
For the US:
138 men: lost 56 = 40.5%
12 Tanks: lost 6 = 50%
17 AFVs (also counting his mortar carriers): Lost 6 = 35%
So this was by no stretch a "Total Victory", that was straight up on us for not checking the victory parameters.  I hold the village but given the drubbing I received in taking it, I am not sure I can put a statue up in Red Square for this either.  Add to this the fact I started with a lot more men and tanks, it starts to push the whole thing into Draw territory to my mind.  
Now Bil had much better arty, had air (I had none) and EW which made my arty next to useless without TRPs (which I did not have) so there is that.  And my starting position was not the best but it is a poor craftsman that blames the workbench.  
I will let you all judge for yourselves.  Regardless, was a helluva fight, the kind that comes around only every so often,  and we are all working to get you guys a chance at it yourselves soon enough.
 

I don't think the Panzer IV was in any way the best tank of the war, and I think the Germans knew this full well - but they kept churning them out because that was more efficient than to change production to a better model.

Oh dear.  Ok, my point of view on these things is pretty simple...."you get what you paid for, CM is good but it is not Jesus".  CM is a really good tactical level game that borders on simulator (BFC MOD work is proof of that).  It is very good, maybe the best, at Battalion and below tactical engagements; a test of skill and a challenge that provides a lot of entertainment.  The level of accuracy and detail is crazy...at that level.
Now if we are going to start to expand beyond that then a lot of other factors come into play and frankly we move out of entertainment and start to encroach on professional military problems.  And hey, if the game takes you there, then that is great but you will likely get frustrated trying to port those lessons back into the game.
So, for example, the quality of T64 manufacture is not a tactical problem.  Sure, a few extra dice rolls for throwing a track but in reality poor manufacture is an operational or strategic problems that in CM you may see in the course of an entire campaign as narrative.  For example, the outrageous cost and slow production of the M1 in the early 80s has little effect on the CM battlefield beyond "rarity", which means little when the beast shows up but was a significant strategic shortfall.  
Vehicles and systems are simulated "as they would normally function" in a 1-2 hour window of a tactical engagement.  Here a fully functioning T64B is one tough beast.  
In fact if you want to get into a "battle of logistics" the west is at a significant disadvantage overall.  All of our systems took ridiculous maint-ratios to keep in the field and we did not have a steel mountain of replacements to pull on.  In short the Soviets did not care if 1/3 of their T64s failed to show up when they had a 6-to-1 advantage.
Here is a good analysis of the maint require for the M60 series...and it is not small.
https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/463382.pdf  

This would have probably been a good slice of the Advance Guard for a TR (or the toothy end of a MRR).  Tank types are a bit off but still in the realm of realistic (T64 and T62 mixes) but if we go with TR then there would have been the rest of the lead Tank Bn about 30 mins behind this force.  In reality they probably would have crashed into this scenario, right about the time we call ceasefire. 
A quick look at the tables say that would mean around another 2 x Tank Coys, plus a boatload of arty who would slice through this little tussle without breaking stride.  Behind them by about 20-30km  (so an hour) is the rest of the Regt, so 2 x more Tank Bns and the rest of the MRB.   The ACR over on Bil's is basically down a Squadron by this point, so they would have two left, screen along the axis of advance.  So this little scrap would be a historical footnote in reality.
The power of Active Defence was not so much at the front end, it was the plan to attack the entire Soviet system while defending.  This was smart as the Soviets' had pretty rudimentary logistical support.  So the theory was to attrit and delay in the front while creating breaks and gaps in the rear so that the entire monster grinds to halt.  I honestly doubt it would have worked in 79 but odds get better when we move forward from there.  By the mid-80s the deal was sealed and any fight would have needed tac nukes for the Soviets to stand a chance, which despite the rhetoric they would not have used unless it really was the end of the world.  SDI, scared them so much because if their strat nuke option was blunted, then it meant all of their options for tac nukes were also blunted...all at the losing end of conventional competition as warfare moved from mass to digitized speed.  
Or at least that is how it looked to me...

Thank you all sincerely and you are very welcome.  I am very glad people got enjoyment out of this. 
Once the game is released I will post the scenario so you guys can take a run at your own stories (someone remind me if I forget).
We will do up a final post-game once Bil finishes up his final turns.  I see many congrats at "my victory", I am kinda split here because 1) Of course the glorious forces of the Soviet Union were victorious in crushing the corrupt capitalists, but 2) in reality...when the commissar is not looking, this was pretty much a Draw in my books.   You guys can be the judge when the numbers go up but neither side is doing much with what is left on the board, Soviets do hold the objective but we failed to achieve any real breakout, breakthroughs or overwhelm the US forces.  The only good news is that there is probably another dozen Soviet outfits like the one I just lost behind me.  
But does winning or losing really matter (*duh, of course it does, it is why they keep score*)?  A game well played between two old friends as we enter our autumn years (Bil is on the doorstep of winter) is the best reward in itself. 
 
 

Yep, I have a couple more turns to post and then Warren and I will start the debrief.  I'll get to those tomorrow...in the meantime I'm going to go read Warren's thread and the peanut gallery.
Bil

Sorry, had to show this one (MikeyDs pic by the way),  ATGMs working just fine behind cover.
Oh, ya, game has concluded so now I can finally see Bil’s side and comment.  We will probably do the full debrief/post game here.

The Twenty-Fifth - Thirtieth Minutes - The Wheels Come Off
“Be the hunter not the hunted: never allow your unit to be caught with its guard down.”
James Mattis
 
My AH-1 has been flying overhead for several turns now, and as far as I know this BMP is its only kill.  But in its defense it was being chased by AA missiles for most of the time it hung around and did lose it's mate so I'm lucky it made even this kill.

 
After that the wheels started to come off....
...one of my M-150s exchanged ATGMs with one of Warren's BMPs...


...both missiles passed each other on flight... the M-150's hitting a tree... sigh...

...of course Warren's didn't miss.  Damn!

One of Warren's T-64Bs... (in fact one that had been beaten up, in what seems like another life now, by my 1st Platoon tanks) fired and destroyed one of my M-60s still sitting on the Short Route... damn.  That means 2nd Platoon has now lost three of four tanks. Triple damn.

 
Now with Tank Section 2 joining in on the fun I order all four 1st Platoon tanks back into the breach!

Tank 1/9 had it's career cut short when it exchanged rounds with a T-62... 1/9 fired first, however... it missed.. the T-62 did not.

Uh-oh... have I pushed too far?
 
Third Platoon's tanks have also started moving down the highway... 

Spotting is definitely an issue, the T62 is blind past about 1500m as far as I can see and totally helpless in heavy smoke or night conditions...big reason why I had to close the distance in this game.  As to the T55, good question, I have not really played that one much (it does show up in the US '79 Campaign) I am not sure how they stack up to the T55.

@The_Capt.. Warren, this has been a brilliantly written and presented AAR.  Bravo.  I actually laughed out loud a couple times.
Well played game as well... as always you have been a worthy opponent.  
Bil

I can't really comment definitively on price as I think they are still tweaking the QB but right now they are somewhere around 75% the cost of the T64.  Basically in a Large game you can get a LOT of them but you will need to watch the terrain.  The T62 is very effect at close range 1500 and below, which I think you can see in this game.  Its armor is ok but it is not going to stand up to concentrated fire.  It gun is excellent at shorter ranges, I have seen a T62 kill an M60A3 in the front at 1000m.
So I guess the short answer is that it is a fine tank if you know how to use it...en masse, closing distance quickly and knife fighting.
I personally prefer it over the T72, which really feels to me like the red-headed stepchild in this title.  This tank gets lot of press but it never was really taken seriously by the Soviets, a cheap export model.  Now the T64B and T80s are a different story, the T80 is rarer but begins to catch up on spotting/sniping and the T64B is the second only to the M1 (and much, much cheaper) for being an all around beast, its frontal armor is excellent and the gun is brutal.  The T64B is probably my favorite tank in the game. 

Glorious March to Victory Post #13 - "The Song of Small German Town 1980"
So on the very next turn Bil has offered ceasefire...we have playing together for a long time.  We have decided to do the final debrief at the same time, so I will wait for Bil to catch up a bit.
But I could not leave the second to last turn hanging because it represents this battle so well:
You remember the stand off on the Red Knoll at the end of turn 31...well here is how it played out:

My T62 got off the first shot and it was a killer (note the now-deaf-est Soviet Pl HQ in the ETO circled)
Then this happens:

Seriously, this is like the freakin ending of Reservoir Dogs at this point.  BTW I found out later, that M60 is immobilized by my heroic second squad.
So here we are at what is essentially End Game:

I will leave you to speculate as where things landed....
I can tell you that the fight over this non-descript little town in West Germany created so many pixel heroes in less than an hour.  I hope you have enjoyed it a fraction of as much as it was to play.
 

Glorious March to Victory Post #12 - "We Try Harder" (25-31)
So based on observation, I am seeing quite a few "likes" (thank you btw) but few comments, which tells me that I am probably telling you all something that Bil has already posted.  So for fear of getting left behind in the narrative I am just going to pull you all the way to where we are as of today.
I want to say up front that no matter how this ends, this is a really good game.  This is one for the books.  You can tell when everything feels so finely balanced and you and your opponent are fencing on a tightrope.  every PBEM turn gets the heartrate up!  
When I left you things were not looking so good for the brave soldiers of the Soviet Union.  But like the superior communist system, Soviets know how and when to pick themselves up and get back to it.

So not much but re-positioning in Turn 25 as I scramble to re-establish a parameter up on the ridge, Bil pulled back so that all proceeds.  The only interesting thing happens here near the end of the turn.  Looky here comrade the corrupt capitalist system thinks that they are so clever...looks like Bil is taking the deep left option after all.

The next turn I immediately start repositioning my remaining T64 on the left in order to form a blocking position on my left (that poor BMP got nailed by a second Cobra before I scared it off).  Bil could try and hide in the that wood line but we are past that now, he is going to try and roll me up (more on my logic later).  Meanwhile back on what is now called Red Knoll:

My intent here is to establish a hard point and pull Bils forces in, this time however, I am pushing infantry up front.  Note that an ATGM duel is forming up with that M150 and a BMP on the right here.

Which we win.  That should be about 4 out of 6 M150s killed.  Another sign of a really good game is the emergence of all the micro-dramas.  Here there are literally a hundred small stories all unfolding simultaneously, here is one:

So that brave little infantry squad breaks out of that tree line and sees a M60 monster...do they run and hide...nope they open up like it is the last thing they will ever do (and literally is).  Those are both the RPG 18 and RPG 7 firing simultaneously right at the turns end.  Finally on back on the Hwy:

So yep, pretty much as I expected this is an attempted roll up...oh Bil, you tired foolish old man, did you think I would leave the door open?  So here I am re-positioning another T64 and BMP to bottle up that Hwy ploy.  Onto Turn 28 and things start to turn:

My brave little squad misses, and then die in a hail of glory but they spook the crap out of those M60s, who promptly back off buying time for my T62s.  You can see here another T62 I snuck up from the village in the woods, so I have got a pretty good bead on this.

Meanwhile back on the Hwy, Bil's M60 here get spooked by a lone Recon Pl HQ and I start hunting that T64 forward.  I am starting to feel a bit like we are getting back up and then this happens:

Back in the center, Bil still has some armor with eyes on the objective (note: he is still pounding that nearly-empty suburb like it slept with his wife).  My poor immobilized T64 nails this M60 in a single blistering 125mm of bad-love.
Onto Turn 29.

 So on this turn is a positioning turn on the Red Knoll and Hwy, Bill has brought up at least one M60 to reinforce up here, so a lot of micro-drama potential.  And on the other side:

The bottleneck force is shaping up nicely..so the stage is set for another showdown.  
Turn 30 and things start to click:

It starts with this showdown at near-point-blank range.  The M60 fires first but (I like to think my little infantry squad (now all heroes of the Soviet Union) killed the crew commander and rattled that tank so badly that..) it misses.  My T62 does not, because cold steel runs in Soviet veins

Ok, now this is a Balls Game!  Back in the center:
 
DPICM, the last refuge of the desperate (seriously I think we may have overloaded on arty, and of course EW makes most of mine near useless).  But again Bil doubles down on that lone squad and MG team (who have taken a single casualty after all this)  A hint for anyone who plays Bil...he has problems with artillery.
But all is not good news:

This one hurt but it is a straight up "war happens moment so deal with it".  I start to push that T64 up a bit to try and snipe that M60 and he gets killed...gotta admit that one hurt.
Turn 31 and we are nearly caught up.

So up on the Red Knoll, Bil is stubbornly pushing with his 3 M60s (counting the dead one, that is a full third of his armor)  A second squad wins the Hero of the Soviet Union here by fearlessly opening up on two M60s and here they get an RPG 7 off before also being chopped up.

Which hits but I have no sight on the tank so I can only hope it at least rattled them up a bit.  The back on the Hwy:

My other T64, cooly drops that M60 like first period French (swear to god if I had all T64s this game would be over by now).  Back on Red Knoll the turn ends with this: 
Both barrels are lined up and loaded.  This screenshot pretty much captures this entire freakin game!
Ok, my assessment with 9 mins left on the clock.  So, Bil is seriously considering ceasefire right now cause even int guys can do math.  My force on the objective is still very solid with the better part of an infantry Coy and 2 x T62s (I sent the other one back), so the odds of him taking it (which were never great given his force) are low.  He could try a gamey sneak in the last minute of the game but I doubt it.  
So his problem here is one of points.  The US get points for cutting me down past 50% but they need to keep their own force above 50% and based on losses so far he has to be concerned about that buffer.  I am definitely closer (I may be below 50% right now) but even-losses at this point would be fatal to the US side.  And in the last 4 minutes I have lost a single T64 and BMP to at least 3 x M60s and an M150.   By my math Bils armor is precariously down to 50% (and I suspect at least one tank is gun-killed)...and I still have a lot of those nasty BMPs on the board who can all kill Bil's...well, anything.  
Regardless, even if we ended it now, I think this game is a Draw (at least right now).  In reality both forces are at a standstill (even if the US side has not realized it yet) in what has been a see-saw battle that has left me with scars and some therapy requirements.  The Blood-Red Dice still will roll, so we will see.
Capt's AAR Battle Theme Song