DMS

With a handle like that it is hard to tell if you are speaking to all of us or just one guy. I was thinking, gee that is uncharacteristically rude of Bil.

I want to believe this, and I partly do, but the truth lies somewhere in the middle I believe.
 
Here is a 50 minute long video from the offensive (pretty great cinematography, editing, and covers the soldier's experience in the battle for the New Terminal) just last week (translated into English):

 
Most of these guys seem like ripe old separatists to me, and I have seen them in multiple videos since the escalation in August. Granted that theiy equipment is OBVIOUSLY supplied by the Russians. There is no doubt about it. It's kind of fishy to see that "Green Man" camo mixed in with them. Maybe it's just the fact that this was a small contigent of "Motorola's" men.  I just haven't seen much proof besides the concrete proof back in August from NATO satellites. Again I do believe Russian troops are in Ukraine, but we just need more concrete evidence then Poroshenko saying "See! There they are!" or a former diplomat.

Best way for Russian forces to take down those pesky M1s is to retreat all the way to Moscow. And wait for winter to set in.

You have a Soviet rifle company and T-34-76 platoon. Enemy in defense have a grenadier platoon with attached HMG section (2 heavy MG-42). HMGs are entrenched, well placed to fire at 500m+. There are no passages for getting close such as forest or buildings, you have to attack through the open terrain.
 
What are your actions?
I would move T-34s forward, then infantry. T-34 would supress MG nests, infantry would get close and kill the rest of the enemy. IRL probably it would work. In the game... T-34s don't see anything. HMG fires 500m ahead - they don't see it. 300m too. I tried to make recon and send messengers to tank platoon leader, so tanks would have question marks for HMGs - it doesn't help, tanks don't spot targets.
Manualy target place, where HMGs are? It is a gamey, far from realism. Manualy target question marks?
Infantry also can't supress HMGs. DP-27 is as useless as BAR.
What you would do?

Does the engine seems cleaner? faster? That said, the units SEEM to not do as many DUMB things (path'ing).. sadly tho, we still get one-shot wonder "Heinz" with his 88mm Pak 41/43 penetrating an IS-2 at 4k M, but I digress..
 
I was trying to explain how hard it can be to modify an existing game engine and move it up to higher and higher fidelities today with another friend of mine in software development.  It's not easy, and I think we see this quite clearly with CMRT vs. CMBN. Not to say that CMBN isn't fun, it's just that when I play CMRT I have a much better experience with larger maps, cleaner color palette, etc. (I know you can make large maps in CMBN, but the speed and fidelity aren't there IMO).
 
I wonder what other people think?  I mean, I am a Ost Front fan boy, but still, I enjoy the challenge of Normandy and the different TO&E in that game (as well as it's lost cousin CMFI), but i'm left wondering if the game experience isn't as good as when I play H2H on CMRT.. which I love to do and it seems to have a far better outcome game wise..
 
Do others agree? I mean, how hard is it to add tank riders to CMBN? I would think NOT hard, but clearly hard enough that it wasn't added.. and it wasn't because of military doctrine..it was because the bits and bytes don't play nice together I'm sure.. I mean, add it in in CMRT and not in CMBN? 
 
Not trolling.. rather curious if others think the game experience in CMRT is better than the other titles in the CMx2 engine?

Why? Abrams has a large enough weak zone under the turret, every schoolboy in Russia who plays WoT knows about it. Under 1000m it is no problems to get this weak zone at static Abrams, trajectory is flat. In it geometrical center of the tank, at the end.
 
And what do you think about resistance of external equipment to hits? Abrams spotting equipment is not grandfather's hole in the commanders's turret. Will it survive a hit? Subcaliber round hit? HE hit? RPG? Good "Grad" shelling? I think, that Abrams armor is enough to save a crew and a tank from single random hit, but it is not enough to keep tank fighting. You all saw photos of "Tiger II" and "Ferdinand" from Soviet firing tests. Abrams will look like that after multiple hits.

Id like to think the Khrizantema with its radar and Thermal optics would be efficient at spotting - but it has shown in the battle rep that it cant even spot something right infront of it.

'unable to depress its guns'!?! Narrative or really happened? Because gun depression limit is AFAIK on BFC's 'never' list.

Continuing the T-90 vs. M1 debate, CM Black Sea is the first CM title to allow aphibious vehicle river crossing, a significant tactical advantage for the Russians imho.
 
Regarding the huge weight difference between the tanks, are there bridges in Ukraine that could carry a T-90 weight but not a M1's? If this was the case, it would be another tactical advantage.
 
One thing that is not modelled at this level is the fuel consumption and maintenance overheads for each tank which I imagine would give the T-90 an advantage in logistical supplies needed.

If you use your Stryker as a fighting vehicle, I'd imagine no, if you use it in it's intended role to transport and provide local support for the infantry...  I served for 6 years as an infantryman on BTRs and BMPs.  The BTRs just took us to dismount points and we did our mission on foot, our BTR was not trying to fight other vehicles.  I son't know te USA doctrine, but I don't think they are going to put a company of Strykers on line and assault through an objective with them.

Survivability depends from round enerhy. If is just enough to penetrate armor - it is different case than export Iraq T-72s.

Survivability depends from round enerhy. If is just enough to penetrate armor - it is different case than export Iraq T-72s.

Survivability depends from round enerhy. If is just enough to penetrate armor - it is different case than export Iraq T-72s.

Is this a Tolkien thread now?
 
I hope the scenarios won't be like many were in CMSF -- one-sided stomp affairs where all the OPFOR are puny reserve conscripts and BLUFOR troops Crack/Elite gods. My friends largely refuse to H2H me because of the scenario balance in that game.

I would be suspicious that this plton is actuallly bait for hidden AT guns. Assault guns or tanks. So first I would scou the area and establish that this was not the case. Them I would move the tanks to within 500 - 600m of the enemy position. Use them t create a basr of fire along with one rifle platoon. The ther two rifle platos will employ fire and movement tactics to assist in suppressing the enemy and move them into close assault positions. If the Germans have not retreated or surrendered then close assaullt thei positions. Move the tnks and the firest rifle pltoon up quickly from the fire support base to support the final attack and exploit success.

You have won. The Germans have nothing that can stop your tanks. Assuming your intel on the enemy is correct. Don't get within 150m and they'll empty their shrecks before they kill enough of your platoon to stop you murdelating them. 
1. Get infantry as far forward as they safely can.2. Drive your entire T-34 platoon up to 200m from the nearest enemy position your infantry can see and stop. Start neutralising resistance from there.

It's not that gamey. Just because there's no "?" doesn't actually mean they can't see anything. It can just mean they haven't communicated the presence to you yet, especially given the poor Soviet comms net. There are times when a unit will open fire (i.e. have a solid spot; they don't shoot at "?" on their own recognisance, ever) at a target that you don't have an icon for yet.
Even if you still think it is "gamey", bear in mind that the scenario designer will have had in mind the parameters of the game when he was designing it, and will be expecting you to use the tools available to you as a player.

And beyond that, you've enough MGs to blanket large areas of "suspected" terrain. Shooting at a place often gets a visible reaction. Staying still will improve your spotting. You probably don't have enough TCs to risk unbuttoning to get a better look.

Do you have any smoke available from company mortars (do Russian infantry even have mortars at the company level?) or the tanks? Are you absolutely sure that the entire approach route can fired upon from all possible enemy positions, or is there any declivity which will mean you can advance infantry into the face of the guns of only a part of the defense, a part sufficiently small that you can blanket it with T-34 fire? If you do have mortars, can you sneak a spotter into a place to call missions on key MG nests, in order to make a hole you can exploit? You just have to cut the number of long range guns down to a manageable number.

But most of all, get to "just outside effective infantry AT range" and sit there like turrets blowing up Germans.

What everyone else said.
 
 
Not remotely gamey - in real life units were far from shy about plastering a suspected enemy position even if no one had seen any enemy there.
Safe was always better than sorry since they cared far more about their lives than our pixeltroops.
 
"Gunner, 2 rounds of HE into the house on the right" type of thing.
 
There's even a good scene of this in a Band of Brothers episode where the officer tells his mortar man "put mortars onto that roof until it's gone, when it's gone everyone charges" or words to that effect.
They knew there was an MG42 there, but they couldn't see it.
 
Area fire is a tool you have. Use the tools you've got.

Start with the infantry in a formation with one platoon leading, two platoons in line behind them and to the sides, weapons and HQ in the middle of that line directly behind the lead platoon.
Tanks initially in the middle of that line and trailing it slightly.  Everyone well spread out to avoid giving good artillery targets etc.
 
Leading platoon steps off on move to contact until it draws fire.  Goes to ground when it does so.
With the lead platoon 100 yards ahead, all the rest of the infantry, plus the tanks, advances at a walking pace, on line.
 
As soon as enemy fire halts the infantry, tanks advance through the infantry to 200 meters from the sound contacts firing at said infantry.
The infantry are on their bellies, using every fold of ground as cover, hiding in the grass etc.  No job but to rally.  HQs, ATRs, MGs with binocs are eyes up but stationary, rest can hide.
Occasionally a single squad at a time advances 50 meters and hits the deck again, "walking" gradually closer to the enemy if not fired upon sufficiently.  There is no rush whatever, you have all day.
 
If the enemy MGs "go quiet" to avoid being spotted by the tanks, then the squad infantry begins advancing.  Roughly half are moving at any given time, the others on their bellies.
They switch off who is moving, moving only every other minute and for less than the full minute.  Perhaps 1/3rd of total elapsed "clock time" is spent moving.  
This is meant to present a poor target for a defender's "mad minute", meaning opening up with all MGs and squads.  Such an attempt would only pin half the attacking infantry.
The other half and the tanks would be untouched and the tanks instantly replying.
 
Meanwhile, if the defenders stay quiet, the tanks remain out of infantry AT range, and the whole company crawls closer in a staggered fashion.
Once the infantry are within good rifle range - 250 yards, say - all their heavy weapons stop moving closer, MGs set up, etc.
Then one platoon, only, advances to 200 yards and goes stationary there.  Then a second.  Then one advances to 150 yards and goes stationary there.
 
When you have a whole line of rifles and MGs even with the tanks ready to blow apart any enemy who opens fire in less than a minute, send a half squad to the nearest old sound contact.
Minimal risked force in any movement that close.  They only need to trigger fire, and should get within grenade and good SMG range if they don't draw any.
 
Whenever they like in the above process, the defenders are invited to challenge the approaching infantry company.  The tanks then murder them, supplemented by the non-moving, in-range portions of the infantry company.  The moving, fired-upon portions of the infantry company just hit the deck and remain stationary, with no mission but to hide and rally.  They count on their friends getting the shooters off of them.  Other squads may move out to draw the fire in the meantime.
 
All it takes.  A defensive position, even in the open and with entrenchments, needs ranged tank killing weapons to stop such an advance.  If it doesn't have them, or enough artillery to break up the infantry company without revealing any infantry firing positions, then it is toast.  It just takes time.

I have been watching effectiveness of Russian anti tank rifles vs German half tracks.
It seems that they are accurate, but don't cause that much damage.
 
Even though during a turn I may see several penetrations from ATR hits the HT does not reverse to safety like often happens when they are shot with smaller calibre weapons.
Especially when a soldier inside a HT dies.
Also despite several penetrations and the HT being full of soldiers in most cases nobody dies (no idea of any damage was caused to crew inside or the vehicle).
So I'm thinking: is this correctly modeled now?
 
I would assume hitting a HT full of soldiers would have pretty good chance of causing casualties to soldiers inside or the vehicle getting damaged, depending on the place of hit of course.
And why don't HTs react to 14,5mm hits at all like they do when hit with smaller or larger caliber weapons?

After seeing the "over use" of BMP/Bradley ATGM use in the Beta AAR, I had to get some clarity.
 
If there is supporting evidence of "generous" use of IFV ATGM as SOP for US/RU/UKR forces (hell, I'll take any army at this point), then someone smack me on the head with it.
 
If not, then this will need to be tweaked prior to ship. Bradley & BMP3 (haven't seen BMP2 use, yet - is this a bug specific to BMP3/Bradley?).
 
Otherwise there are going to be some SERIOUS tactical issues with IFV overuse of ATGM. 
 
This will be especially important when facing APS equipped vehicles.
 
NO Beta AAR SPOILERS here, as it'd be great to get Bill's/Pzrldr's opinions/views here.
 
Can any Dev's chime in here? Yes, stop eating leftovers and chime in.
 

 
 

I apologize if I have bad English.
 
After conflict in South Osetia in 2008, organizational and staff structure got a few changes. The motorized company have been cut on personnel and armament: the HQ units have been cut on MG’s crew (PKM , PKP), but set into each squad replacing RPK. Personnel count in companies depends on type and can be 105 to 120 men.
 
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IFV (BMP) Motorized Company.
Company HQ:
1)Company Commander, 2)Deputy Commander, 3)Gunnery Sgt., 4) Ground Radar Operator, 5)RTO, 6)Senior Corpsman, 7)Gunner, 8)Driver.
 
!!! In some units there are 3-4 extra snipers per HQ squad. !!!
 
!!! There’s Radar Operator position, but in fact, there’s no men could operate them, as well as there are no radars themselves. Haven’t seen them by myself too. !!!
 
Platoon HQ:
1)Platoon Commander, 2)RTO, 3)Corpsman, 4)Sniper (SVD/SV-98) or Sniper pair (SVD/SV-98)
 
A normal squad with BMP consists of 9 men: 7 infantry men and extra 2 as BMP crew.
Dismounted:
1)Squad Leader 2) MG 3)AT 4)Assistant AT 5)Senior Rifleman 6)Rifleman 7)Rifleman
BMP crew:
8)BMP Gunner 9)Driver
 
!!! In some units, there’s no rifleman. One position is cut. !!!
 
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BTR(APC) Motorized Company.
Same as IFV platoon, except for the sniper: there’s no one in HQ, but each squad has marksman (SVD) .
APC companies are added with ATGM platoon to withstand enemy armored vehicles.
 
MT-LB Motorized Company.
Can’t say anything about this one.

 
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A word on snipers in Russia. Snipers in motorized platoons in AFRF are more like Sharpshooters/Marksmans compared to Western qualifications. Professional snipers are usually operating along company and batallion HQ’s or operating independently having their own tasks.
In massive military units, there’s special infantry platoon, from which the professional snipers and marksmen distributed into other platoons.
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Radio Communication.
Radio communication in companies nowadays developed a way forward since 2008-2009, platoon commander can now contact with any of the squad leaders. There are two radiostations in squad now: squad leader has first, senior rifleman has the second. Snipers in IFV platoons also have radios.
 
Optics.
There are 2-4 1P63 collimator sights per squad. It depends on commander how they would be distributed along the men (e. g. 1st and 2nd patoons consist most of the contract operators, means they’d get 4 sights per unit, rather then 3rd platoon with recruit men, who get 2 sights per unit). There are units fully complected with 4 sights per squad. Usually, there are 25-40 sights per company.
There are no helmet-mounted NVG’s in units, but many firearm-mounted scopes ( 1P51 “NSPU-3” ), 3-5 units per squad, 30-50 per company.  
!!! Some of contract operators buying themselves modifications for their firearms, e. g. optics (Western too), tactical grips, rail systems and so on. !!!
 
Some of HQ units bying themselves a thermal-imaging devices.
 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In general, the motorized company of AFRF can be compared to one of 2005’ish era of US Army.
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