Mord

And there's just as many of us that disagree with you. The advances might not be as quick as I'd like but to deny they are there is preposterous and to label them minor little fixes/features is opinion. But saying the game has been at a stand still since 2007 is complete and utter crap—poop laden hyperbole for the sake of poop laden hyperbole.
 
This is why, after dozens of your little snipes over the past six months or so, you end up with these types of replies. The pessimism and willful ignorance gets really old. Take your ideas and desires and try putting them in a more positive tone and drop the dramatics and you might get somewhere. In the end we all want the same thing but there are better ways to go about it—Greek tragedy seasoned with fallacy does not help further the discussion and never will.
 
Mord.

Death Scream Mod sounds like the name of a bad death metal band lol.

And there's just as many of us that disagree with you. The advances might not be as quick as I'd like but to deny they are there is preposterous and to label them minor little fixes/features is opinion. But saying the game has been at a stand still since 2007 is complete and utter crap—poop laden hyperbole for the sake of poop laden hyperbole.
 
This is why, after dozens of your little snipes over the past six months or so, you end up with these types of replies. The pessimism and willful ignorance gets really old. Take your ideas and desires and try putting them in a more positive tone and drop the dramatics and you might get somewhere. In the end we all want the same thing but there are better ways to go about it—Greek tragedy seasoned with fallacy does not help further the discussion and never will.
 
Mord.

And there's just as many of us that disagree with you. The advances might not be as quick as I'd like but to deny they are there is preposterous and to label them minor little fixes/features is opinion. But saying the game has been at a stand still since 2007 is complete and utter crap—poop laden hyperbole for the sake of poop laden hyperbole.
 
This is why, after dozens of your little snipes over the past six months or so, you end up with these types of replies. The pessimism and willful ignorance gets really old. Take your ideas and desires and try putting them in a more positive tone and drop the dramatics and you might get somewhere. In the end we all want the same thing but there are better ways to go about it—Greek tragedy seasoned with fallacy does not help further the discussion and never will.
 
Mord.

Hey brother, welcome to the first day of the rest of your wargaming life. You got here just in time.
 
 
Mord.

This is one Action Spot...Yeah, most likely a map won't look this stupid but it's to illustrate what's already been stated.
 

 
1. House
2. Cart
3. Firewood
4. Tall Yellow Grass
5. Stone wall
6. X3 Trees
7. Garden
8. Brush
 
Every one of the things in the picture has an effect in the game, from cover to spotting to movement. This ain't CMX1 that's for sure.
 
EDITED: Not to mention bleed over from one tile to the next.
 
Mord.

Stop arguing with him, mate. Anyone who doesn't see the drastic differences between CMSF and CMBS doesn't deserve this much attention.

... And that's my whole point.
You talk about how CM is "continuing to develop" but I and many others don't see that.
CM is in a standstill since 2007.
They fixed bugs and added minor features but the big issues and shortcomings are still there...just look at the infantry movement !
Or the awful "floating in nirvana" map.
8 years and still, CMBS feels like the 2007 SF just with a 55$ texture mod.

Hey brother, welcome to the first day of the rest of your wargaming life. You got here just in time.
 
 
Mord.

We're six days shy of two months on "soon". Just skip the bone and give us a anniversary present.
 
 
Mord.

I am gonna break your phone into a thousand pieces, Sublime.
 
 
Mord.

This is one Action Spot...Yeah, most likely a map won't look this stupid but it's to illustrate what's already been stated.
 

 
1. House
2. Cart
3. Firewood
4. Tall Yellow Grass
5. Stone wall
6. X3 Trees
7. Garden
8. Brush
 
Every one of the things in the picture has an effect in the game, from cover to spotting to movement. This ain't CMX1 that's for sure.
 
EDITED: Not to mention bleed over from one tile to the next.
 
Mord.

37x base tiles = 37
plus 1x brush = 74
plus 44 x foliage = 3,330
plus 9 x road = 29,970
plus 374 x wall/fence/hedge = 11,208,780
plus 16 x modular buildings = 190,549,260 (I'm going to ignore independent buildings)
(I'm also going to ignore flavour objects, which do affect concealment)
(I'm also going to ignore elevation, which affects quite a bit)
plus 22 x bridges = 4,382,632,980
 
Roughly 4½ billion different terrain tiles. That's why there's no tool tips.

I am gonna break your phone into a thousand pieces, Sublime.
 
 
Mord.

I can't really add anything to this discussion other than that I just wanted to tell you, More Chicken, that I have been a massive fan of yours for ages! For the last 35 years I have screamed your name in restaurants and at dinner tables around this great nation....it's a pleasure to finally meet you.
 
Welcome to CM crackdom.
 
Mord.

Yeah, from what little I remember about the actual battle the outcome felt fairly close to real life. As far as CMBN goes, if you take a couple pounds of hamburger and call it Germans, and then take an industrial fan turn it on high and call it the British, then start chucking the meat into the blades you'll get an idea what it felt like fighting this.
 
I don't think the battle itself was as hard as the fight I had with the engine limitations when it comes to bridges. This being my first ever fight on a bridge I had no clue it would be as finicky and fiddly as it was. I had a helluva a time trying to keep my guys from bunching up because the action spots only allowed placement in the center right or center left lanes of the bridge. After I got used to that I figured maybe face commands would have guys move to the edges like they do in buildings or along walls but It just didn't seem like I could get that to happen. Ideally I wanted men on both sides of the bridge looking out over the town in over watch while I moved others forward.
 
My smoke screen probably came too late to make a difference because I spent the first half of the crossing in dread that DC was gonna hammer me with mortars. I was loathe to move much up, especially my very finite mortar squads, before I knew what kind of hell march they were in for. He basically did the opposite of what I had expected, which was to make me pay for every step my guys took from either rifle fire and/or zeroed in mortars. No, the actual death-fest was waiting on the far side. And you'd be surprised with all that lead flying how very few spots I actually had. I was going crazy trying to figure out where all those broadside vehicle kills were coming from. My dudes had almost no sight to the left or right of the bridge even with their high vantage point.
 
On my side of the river I had set a heavy overwatch on my left flank that consisted of a platoon of PZ Grens, a couple Panthers and a couple armored cars in case his plan was to wail me all the way across. Like wise, on the right I had about four pieces of armor and a couple of teams to cover the crossing from there. Not that I think it would've made a whole lot of difference to my outcome but it did tie up my assets and cost me precious time once I knew the bridge was safe. It took about six turns to get everything sorted out and heading across the river to support the slaughter I was enduring. He completely outsmarted me on the setup.
 
It was a bit frustrating fighting the bridge mechanics but I did enjoy the challenge of trying to get my guys off the pavement and into the town. LOL At one point in the game I felt I'd have a personal victory if I could have one squad or vehicle down in the grass by the last turn.
 
Great AAR DC, you have a flair for it. Only criticisms I have is 1.) You needed to lose. And 2.) More screen shots next time. You can never have too many screenies!
 
 
Mord.

Yeah, from what little I remember about the actual battle the outcome felt fairly close to real life. As far as CMBN goes, if you take a couple pounds of hamburger and call it Germans, and then take an industrial fan turn it on high and call it the British, then start chucking the meat into the blades you'll get an idea what it felt like fighting this.
 
I don't think the battle itself was as hard as the fight I had with the engine limitations when it comes to bridges. This being my first ever fight on a bridge I had no clue it would be as finicky and fiddly as it was. I had a helluva a time trying to keep my guys from bunching up because the action spots only allowed placement in the center right or center left lanes of the bridge. After I got used to that I figured maybe face commands would have guys move to the edges like they do in buildings or along walls but It just didn't seem like I could get that to happen. Ideally I wanted men on both sides of the bridge looking out over the town in over watch while I moved others forward.
 
My smoke screen probably came too late to make a difference because I spent the first half of the crossing in dread that DC was gonna hammer me with mortars. I was loathe to move much up, especially my very finite mortar squads, before I knew what kind of hell march they were in for. He basically did the opposite of what I had expected, which was to make me pay for every step my guys took from either rifle fire and/or zeroed in mortars. No, the actual death-fest was waiting on the far side. And you'd be surprised with all that lead flying how very few spots I actually had. I was going crazy trying to figure out where all those broadside vehicle kills were coming from. My dudes had almost no sight to the left or right of the bridge even with their high vantage point.
 
On my side of the river I had set a heavy overwatch on my left flank that consisted of a platoon of PZ Grens, a couple Panthers and a couple armored cars in case his plan was to wail me all the way across. Like wise, on the right I had about four pieces of armor and a couple of teams to cover the crossing from there. Not that I think it would've made a whole lot of difference to my outcome but it did tie up my assets and cost me precious time once I knew the bridge was safe. It took about six turns to get everything sorted out and heading across the river to support the slaughter I was enduring. He completely outsmarted me on the setup.
 
It was a bit frustrating fighting the bridge mechanics but I did enjoy the challenge of trying to get my guys off the pavement and into the town. LOL At one point in the game I felt I'd have a personal victory if I could have one squad or vehicle down in the grass by the last turn.
 
Great AAR DC, you have a flair for it. Only criticisms I have is 1.) You needed to lose. And 2.) More screen shots next time. You can never have too many screenies!
 
 
Mord.

There's a lack of bones comparable only to amoebas.

That's like saying the introduction of the rule in chess that allows a pawn to convert to a queen when it reaches the 8th rank of squares brought the game up to the level of checkers.
 
Not the same game. Not a single line of common code. Not relevant.

How much sooner?
 
 
Mord.

I don't think sburke's sentiment is out of place either and I can certainly see how he could arrive at his question.

Take me for example, I have been playing CM since the spring of 2001, however I seldom post to the forum. On the rare occasion I do, it's almost always the simple task of thanking a modder/BFC, reporting a bug or asking a technical question, but man I am infatuated with this game.

My first video wargame experience was Combat for the Atari 2600 and yes, my friends and I would gob at the colored rectangles and muse aloud, "wouldn't it be cool if they really looked like Shermans!"  It's also safe to say we were the only seven year olds in our small town that could tell you the diameter of a WWII era bazooka rocket. Merciful god - what glorious little freaks we were.

Bookend the joystick and button mashing sessions in those formative years with endless firefights among 1/72 scale Screaming Eagles and the injection moulded Wehrmacht and it isn't too hard to project how I ended up with BFC's baby on my present day hardrive. Every so often when playing CM the spell gently lifts and I snicker at the realization -  I am well into adulthood and still playing with little army men.
 
To sburke's point, here is a moment from this last weekend that made me stop and marvel at the depth of experience CM delivers.  The two Strykers in this image are on the 'splody end of a RUS fire mission. After a nearby shellburst decomissioned the M1126's RWS, an onboard sniper took up position and began scanning for targets.  How cool is that?
 

 
Take heed all of you with a hand in the game's development, your efforts are noticed, no matter how small.  Your work not only gratifies us as adult wargamers, but also invites our boyhood whimsy to step right up each time CM lays out the welcome mat.

Totally not just you, Sburke. 
 
I think it's human nature (and that seems confirmed by the article IanL quoted above) to want to improve things, but in the desire to improve things - even if only the best of intentions are involved - one can forget to appreciate just how good this game is. I've done beta testing, design work and map and scenario creation for other games. As a tester I know how much work a small piece of code can create for everyone. Changes that seem simple rarely are. 
 
In the anxiousness to change and improve things, we can easily lose sight of just how incredible Combat Mission is. Forget for a moment that it can be better. Everything can be better, but forget that because this is about appreciate what we have, not making improvements. 
 
I love immersion - to feel I'm in the battle and not just solving a tactical puzzle. To get on the ground watching my troops as they walk, or run or fight, or seeing the suspension move as a tank goes cross-country, or the ball of fire from a tank firing its main gun. Or just the trees swaying from a breeze, or the rain falling down. Amazing stuff! 

Defiantly not just you.
 
On the subject of playing the game itself:
 
I started out playing miniatures when I was a teenager along with a few cardboard games.  The big problem was FOW, or more precisely the lack of FOW.  They never felt right. All my grand plans to create multiple rooms and umpires etc. etc. never amounted to a hill of beans because there just was not enough players to do all the work.  When I found CM (way late I would have played CM1x for 10 years and been really happy with it) the total surprise when things suddenly went south was like a breath of fresh air.  Just yesterday in Objective Delta my men were happily moving forward thinking they had eyes on what was happening (thanks to a UAV) when suddenly all hell broke loose and my opponent came out of literally no where.  It has been three of the most exciting minutes of play in recent memory and I am totally getting wrecked.  The moments watching the soldiers scrambling for cover is just wow.   Every time I cannot see stuff and have no idea what kind of shape the enemy is in it just makes my day.
 
All the first person shooter games that people mention just do nothing at all for me.  Not a damn thing.  @slysniper nailed it earlier "first person shooters do not feel or act realistic at all. ... there is no concept of death being bad, so constant stupid moves are made because there is no fear of dying".  In CM dying matters - if you let your soldiers die recklessly that is how you loose.  No amount of better animation, or better graphics or better sound or better UI changes any of that. 
 
Bottom line the feel of the game and the behaviour of the troops has to be there first.  If it is not then none of the wiz-bang features matters at all.  If BFC never created any CMx2 titles I would still be playing CMx1 titles and loving every minute of it.
 
On the subject of criticizing the game:
Nothing pisses me off more than people saying that many of us don't accept criticism of the game.  The reality is I don't accept poorly thought out or rudely presented criticism of the game - big difference.  Ideas are a dime a dozen any one of us could create a list of improvements long enough to keep a larger team busy forever.  The trick is choosing the right improvements and doing them in the right order.
 
To understand how this works listen to this:
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-march-16-2015-1.2994052/kevin-ashton-dismantles-creative-genius-in-how-to-fly-a-horse-1.2994083
 
If that is TL;DL the summary is as humans we are wired to look for improvements.  We can be counted on to make suggestions for improvements in nearly every tool, item, process or environment we interact with - it is part of human nature.  Lots of those ideas actually just will not work, many of them will really only make things about the same just different and yet we can come up with ideas for improvements even for things we generally like already. 
 
To be well received ideas have to be communicated and presented.  Nothing kills an idea faster than rudeness - people stop listening.  I say bring on the ideas, bring on the criticism but keep your perspective.  You pet idea might not really be that good.  Your idea might not really move the bar forward much at all - it just might be a little different.  Your idea might not fit with the vision the developers want to go - sorry but they have to choose and just because they don't choose yours does not make them wrong.  Nothing moves as quick as you might want - just accept it.  And above all make sure you are not being rude.  I know tall order for humans

NEVER EVER pick an all green Russian force...EVEEEEEEEEEER.
 
 
 
Mord.

I do that a lot...because I remember where I started, where electronic gaming started, I don't take much for granted unless it's some pile of crap. My first real memory of seeing a video game was Space Invaders somewhere around 78. Then I think I may have played Pong at my uncle's house. Then in 80 I got Intellivision for Christmas. I remember daydreaming and chatting excitedly with my firends about what games could be like and what we thought would be cool and they have gone beyond what my kid brain could even fathom. LOL. I still remember the day my buddy brought home some floppies of the Doom shareware...I blew a gasket...actually a couple gaskets. I thought it was the greatest thing I'd ever seen.
 
As for wargaming I played Panzer General, Close Combat and Steel Panthers but they were just kinda peripheral for me. When I encountered CMBO for the first time I thought it was moronic...I came back 6 months later and fell helmet over jackboots for it...and for WWII. The story telling moments, those little vignettes we are all always talking about really grabbed me and sold me on it. And then CMX2 came along and made those vignettes much sharper and defined, more visceral and epic—stuff I longed and wished for through the whole CMX1 development cycle.
 
I don't think sburke is too close to the game, I think he's speaking on a more transcendental level, about appreciating what we have here and now, for what it is, not what it isn't—a kind of "stop and smell the cordite" thing. There isn't a guy here that doesn't want CM to be more than it is and I think what he is saying is that the really cool things that already are, can get lost in all that static. That's my take anyway.
 
 
Mord.