Gustav Line Beta AAR Round Two PEANUT GALLERY

[Hister]

Ooh! Ooh! So glad we have a penut gallery to let these things out on. Bil just ordered his Elephant to drive up to the left tit. Possibly getting it quite close to the sniper. Its hard to tell, but it looks like its unbottoned. Here's hoping for a TC kill for Gaj's sniper.

Yeah, here's to hoping but I doubt it.

[newlife]

Bah! Looks like Bil's infantry chased the sniper away.

[sburke]

In the immortal words of the old man in Monty Python's The Holy Grail - I'm not quite dead yet...I feel happy!

Bil may yet hear from that sniper again.

[c3k]

I'm glad GaJ is keeping up the long range harassing fire. He cannot let Bil have the luxury of just sitting wherever he wants while he contemplates his next attack. Bil's peek-a-boo with his tanks over on Hill 130 has been nicely done.

I think this is still tilted toward Bil, at this point. The key will be the infantry attack. If GaJ keeps his squads tight, the PzIV's and, especially, Brumbars will decimate them.

GaJ has 3 more ATG's, 1 less than he started with. But he also has a lot more experience with the importance of FIRING his gun when has a chance.

This has the form of a classic pre-attack probe right now. The real attack will, no doubt, unfold in about 10 minutes.

[c3k]

Bil has just posted his next turn. His recon elements are bearing fruit.

GaJ's foxholes on the back slopes of the tits are of use to Bil. Germans would, by doctrine, register their defensive locations as target points to their artillery. That way, if they were pushed out, their fire support could nail the guys moving into the defensive works. A TRP would be good right there. Also, some minefields, as a form of booby trap. A missed opportunity. (I'm sure the points were spent elsewhere...)

Ken

[$Pec5]

I feel bad for GaJ's machinegun placed on Hill 109. It sounds like it is in for a tough turn.

It seems as if Bil is almost startled that the Tits were captured so easily. He has an air of "I would have done things very differently" when discussing the tit defense. I tend to agree with him, but GaJ seems very satisfied with his defensive plans thus far. I am interested to see if GaJ's tactics pay off. 20% of the battle is already over, after all.

[Hister]

It seems Hill 109 is vital and GaJ has only "soon to be dead" MG and mortar there? Ugh, go GaJ, go GaJ! Why do I always cheer for the side that is doomed to lose?

[Michael Emrys]

Why do I always cheer for the side that is doomed to lose?

It is the method by which the Lords of Karma teach you not to gamble with your children's college fund.

Michael

[Fenris]

... as a form of booby trap...

I'm surprised, in light of the maps features, it's taken this long for the pun to be made.

[$Pec5]

hahaha

the pun had to be made at some point

[Hister]

It is the method by which the Lords of Karma teach you not to gamble with your children's college fund.

Michael

In situations like this I just love I live in an ex socialist country - college fund is not needed since state pays for all the costs. Happy this habit survived merging the old system with the neo-liberal one.

[Michael Emrys]

I once read of a Deuce-and-a-half which during the breakout from Normandy had painted on its bumper the slogan "Brest or bust".

Michael

[dumrox]

I must be really slow tonight. I had to read that three times before I got it.

[John Kettler]

dumrox,

That's because those GIs couldn't spell. Already, literacy was taking a nose dive in the States!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

That's because those GIs couldn't spell.

Huh? Explain yourself.

:confused:

Michael

[tarzan]

GaJ and Shooting the Elephant: To Target or Let the AI Target, that is my Question

With the CMx2 engine I very frequently have a dilemma about whether to actually give the 'red line order to shoot' or to let the AI take the shot when it 'judges it wise', without my explicit order. It seems to me that 'forcing the shot' (if that actually even happens, if the AI even listens to my order, iow) is often not preferable - and I have resigned myself to letting the AI take the shot without the explicit order. [For all it know the AI ignores my 'explict order' and just takes the shot when it wants to anyway, with my order having had absolutely zero effect.]

Deeper into my fantasy-land, if the AT gun had LOS to the Elephant but hadn't yet 'noticed' it yet, I will try to 'help out the AI spotting' and give a fairly tight cover arc because I (probably wrongly again) thinking this will somehow aid the AI in 'focusing' on that tight cover arc area. At least it gives me something to do, and I'm careful not to restrict myself if there are any other threats around, since the AI seems to know when I have created a target arc and they can shoot at me 'for free'.

I labour under the fantasy that 'forcing the shot' is often counterproductive - and that letting the AI take the shot improves the outcome. I have no idea what is the actual reality about how the engine handles that.

Does anyone want to definitively disabuse me/school me with a 'Yes or No' if a 'covered arc' 'improves spotting' at all (rather than just 'excluding firing' at unwanted targets?) Please put me out of my misery before I do it again.

[womble]

Does anyone want to definitively disabuse me/school me with a 'Yes or No' if a 'covered arc' 'improves spotting' at all (rather than just 'excluding firing' at unwanted targets?) Please put me out of my misery before I do it again.

I'm pretty sure Steve has definitively stated that the covered arc will not increase the chance of spotting something that you could potentially spot. All it might do is change the facing of the unit so that more pairs of eyes are pointed at the target 'by default'. But units maintain 360 degree awareness (as far as possible), or we'd all be upset when our tanks get blindsided by something they "should" have seen...

So with a turreted tank, the turret might be pointed at the target so that the gunner has a chance of spotting it where he might not (depending on vision arrangements) if the turret was pointed away. For ATGs it's really not going to make much difference if the barrel was along the axis of the CA anyway.

[sburke]

GaJ and Shooting the Elephant: To Target or Let the AI Target, that is my Question

With the CMx2 engine I very frequently have a dilemma about whether to actually give the 'red line order to shoot' or to let the AI take the shot when it 'judges it wise', without my explicit order. It seems to me that 'forcing the shot' (if that actually even happens, if the AI even listens to my order, iow) is often not preferable - and I have resigned myself to letting the AI take the shot without the explicit order.

I generally follow that stance as well. About the only time I will use target is if I am afraid the AI will choose what I believe to be the least threatening or lower probability kill in choosing between multiple targets. I find the AI also wastes less ammo if I leave it to decide. I once watched a PzShk team loose 4 rounds at a Stuart when if I had let it be it would have only likely used 1. I was worried though the team would waste fire on some nearby infantry if I didn't set a target order.

[Andrew H.]

I generally follow that stance as well. About the only time I will use target is if I am afraid the AI will choose what I believe to be the least threatening or lower probability kill in choosing between multiple targets.

That's mostly what I do, too...also directing the AI to a particular target if it seems more productive to my plan, somehow - like directing all squads with LOS to fire on a particular house because I mean to move there next turn.

But in this case, where taking out the Elefant would be a game changer, where the opportunity to get a side shot may not happen again, and where taking out the Elefant from another aspect seems unlikely, I would probably take the low-odds shot.

[slysniper]

The only advantage I know with targeting the unit is if you want your unit to focus on that target no matter what, then it helps. It seems the unit will ignore other targets until it knows the unit you have selected is dead. So in general, if you want your unit to fire on the best target at the moment, then leaving it to the Ai and just showing the limits of where you want the unit to fire with the cover arc is the way to go.

[Offshoot]

I'm kind of confused about where Bil is picking up the contacts for GaJ's armour given these seem to be so deep and in one case behind a building. Are these coming from the dismounted KW drivers, who I'm guessing don't have radios? If so, what are generally accepted guidelines for in-game scouting when playing H2H?

[Chops]

I'm kind of confused about where Bil is picking up the contacts for GaJ's armour given these seem to be so deep and in one case behind a building. Are these coming from the dismounted KW drivers, who I'm guessing don't have radios? If so, what are generally accepted guidelines for in-game scouting when playing H2H?

I smell something gamey, and it's coming from Bil's Kubel Wagon (KW)scouts. They do not appear to be equipped with radios and neither are the KW's. So how are these scouts relaying information back to Capt. Bil? Is Bil acting on the information gained from these borg scouts?

He should not act on any information gained from these scouts, until they return to their KW's and drive back to Capt. Bil's HQ.

[Vanir Ausf B]

So how are these scouts relaying information back to Capt. Bil?

Because Capt. Bil is also Corporal Bil, the KW scout. And every other unit at the same time. There is no way around the god's eye view.

[Offshoot]

There is no way around the god's eye view.

I wasn't intending to set up a criticism. I just wondered if this is generally acceptable in H2H because, as you say, it is impossible to avoid knowing what you oughtn't too. I've only played real time vs my brother and not PBEM against people I don't know, so wouldn't want to commit some transgression unintentionally.

[Chops]

It should be standard operating procedure to not use intel gained in a gamey way. As I mentioned above, Bil should not use any spotting info learned from his borg scouts until they return to near their commanding officer.

Another way to handle this situation would be to use only troops equipped with radios as scouts. Otherwise we are dealing with a non-realistic scenario here.