Fredrik Wallin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Trying to get an overview of features and/or improvements, I would put this on my list, (in no particular order!): Fire! (With the risk of sounding like a pyromaniac…) We can today add destroyed burning vehicles and vehicles can burst into flames during play. It should therefore be possible to have burning buildings, flamethrowers and burning terrain. Maybe even make it possible for flamethrowers to set some types of terrain on fire for a limited time, say 3-8 minutes on fire to prevent a grass fire to last a full 90 minute scenario and add the possibility of the fire spreading depending on weather and wind. Digging in. Allow units to dig in during a scenario. Having taken key terrain outside of initial set-up zones, troops will want to dig in and prepare an ad-hoc defense. Entrenching tools were carried and digging in was (and still is a good and quick way to improve protection for infantry). While on this subject of foxholes, is it just me or are the foxholes used now looking like huge donuts? Wire: Give infantry the possibility to breach wire (not the wire fences in the editor but the ones purchased as fortifications). Either make it possible to cut them, blow them up or cross them slowly. This of course should change the nature of the obstacle, once breached, following units should be able to use the same hole in the wire to cross it. If wire is crossed by a tracked vehicle, leave a hole where infantry can advance. Roads: Roads with ditches inherent in the terrain choice of road. This would give the possibility of narrow roads with ditches closer to the roads. Diagonal T-Junction road tiles in order to make intersections not depending on the alignment of the road. Craters: The possibility of adding craters of different sizes one by one while in the 3D preview of the map (as in CMx1) and/or to move them around as with flavor objects. Buildings: I am OK with the relatively poor protection a building gives (It takes a lot to stop a bullet) but it would be nice as a designer to be able to fortify a building, (to prevent grenades to be thrown in, block doors, prepared firing slits etc..). While on this topic, concealment in a building should be very good if hiding inside of it. Cellars! Add one more dimension to the fight. More flavor objects: Flavor objects I am missing and would add to the maps: - Dead cattle (Yes, I am no vegan!). - Flags from windows such as white sheets or French flags. - Destroyed buildings (rubble or outer walls standing only). - Civilian cars and bikes. - Rubbled/damaged walls - Rommel asparagus Commands: Armored covered arc. I know this has been discussed in other threads but it is high on the list for me. Arguments for this feature are: Ambush by Panzerfaust, Schrecks and bazookas. You do not want to give away your position on the first vehicle in a column it the next vehicle down the road is a tank for example or if you have a defensive line along a hedgerow and the enemy is advancing towards you in a line, you want to be able to make sure the AT unit takes out the supporting tank and not focusing their fire on a soft target. Maybe even take it a step further by having the unit with armored covered arc taking a “moral check” based on moral, fitness, C2C etc. to see if they hold their fire, shoot anyway, do nothing or panic and run. PLEASE NOTE I am in no way a programmer and have no idea if this is possible and how much work this would mean, I am just listing wishes here! Obviously this feature would be nice for tanks as well, why reveal your position to fire at infantry instead of waiting for that tank to move up and expose itself for a nice flanking shot? Recovering support weapons. Make it possible for a crew to go back to the AT Gun, machine gun or any other weapon the abandoned earlier. Demo charges. I am not sure if this already is possible but I have not been able to make it work but being able to throw demo charges would be great, (it was possible in CMx1). For example an infantry unit hidden on 2nd floor of a building should be able to throw a demo charge or two on a passing tank or do the same from a hidden position behind a hedge. Combined command with LOS Would be great to have a way of giving the order for a unit to: “Advance against plotted course until you have LOS to X” X being a building or a bridge or any other terrain element. For example order a machine gun to advance using hunt and having placed a “LOS to” command to the object you want them to be able to see and thereby having the unit stop and deploy with LOS to a potential target. An order like this would be realistic as a Ptn commander would order his support weapons or a squad to “Move up to the ridge (or to the tree line etc..) until you can see the house and take position there”. As mentioned above, this is just my opinion, and wish list and I am sure some of these might take a lot of work and therefore will not be seen as worthwhile or possible but at least it’s listed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Trying to get an overview of features and/or improvements, I would put this on my list, (in no particular order!): I'd recommend having a squint round here before making suggestions, if only to avoid asking for things that are already in. Wire: Give infantry the possibility to breach wire (not the wire fences in the editor but the ones purchased as fortifications). Either make it possible to cut them, blow them up or cross them slowly. This of course should change the nature of the obstacle, once breached, following units should be able to use the same hole in the wire to cross it. If wire is crossed by a tracked vehicle, leave a hole where infantry can advance. Saving only the bit about cutting, everything works exactly as you wish it to, if the infantry are a kind that have the explosives to do it. Buildings: ...concealment in a building should be very good if hiding inside of it. Tests have shown that it already is. Demo charges. I am not sure if this already is possible but I have not been able to make it work but being able to throw demo charges would be great, (it was possible in CMx1). For example an infantry unit hidden on 2nd floor of a building should be able to throw a demo charge or two on a passing tank or do the same from a hidden position behind a hedge. They already get the chance to close assault the vehicle, which is pretty effective, even in the absence of demo charges. There isn't really a need to waste a demo charge to make it more so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Some of these may be problematic and some may already be planned to come with the next module, but I'll take all of them I can get! Cellars are something in particular I would like to see. I realize they may present issues in the terrain mesh and that may make them difficult to do in a mannner that makes it worth the effort, but in my own little world of trying to create some Hurtgen stuff cellars were pretty key to German survivability and defense plans in many of the built up areas. I also like the idea of a rubbled building having some more structure than just being completely collapsed. Partial walls (as opposed to a building with a hole in it )etc would add some nice visual/tactical play. This is actually worth taking a look at to see if I can combine rubble with a wall to get at least some of that feel now. Having rubble with a partial chimney still standing would make for very cool dramatic effect though. I am working on another map of an urban battlefield and am experimenting with some of this, but having actual terrain to lay down would be a nice bonus rather than trying to simulate it with the existing tools. Thanks for putting a decent list together in one spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 They already get the chance to close assault the vehicle, which is pretty effective, even in the absence of demo charges. There isn't really a need to waste a demo charge to make it more so. How do you get them to close assault a vehicle? Assault command? Then what happens? Do they need anything in particular? (Like grenades) What does it look like animation-wise? Haven't seen it in CMx2... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Guy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Rubble What provides better cover/concealment/protection? Buildings or rubble? Foxholes Yes, it would be nice if your infantry could dig in a little but it would take a little while. I am also not sure if the current foxholes are true to cover or if they are just abstract/representational of having some sort of foxhole cover in that 8x8 square. If the latter, then having a unit dig in may work as a foxhole would just pop up in 2-4 minutes. Fire I would love to see fire included but I am not too worried about it until the Russian Front. There it would be a must. As far as flamethrowers, it would be nice to have them in with the next expansion (to represent Crocodile use in Operation Totalize/Aug 1944) but it would not be a deal breaker. At this point, it may be too much for them to get all this into a module with all the connected things they would have to deal with if true fire were to be introduced. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 "PLEASE NOTE I am in no way a programmer and have no idea if this is possible and how much work this would mean..." Xnt point. I know that sounds naff, but all those items have been discussed here literally for years. And of course the challenge is always where to devote limited programming and budget resources. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbmtintin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I know that sounds naff, but all those items have been discussed here literally for years. And of course the challenge is always where to devote limited programming and budget resources. Have we got some "official" answers for these questions, from Battlefront or a developer/programmer? Can they give us such informations? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbmtintin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 And can we have a list of all these questions with only the right answer? A thread where only some guys can have access to change, with only questions / answers taken from other threads. Other people could only read. Ideally with links to the concerned thread... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If you think about it, next month some other new member will arrive and ask exactly the same questions again. I am sorry you can't take my word for it, but life is short etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSwas71331 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 And can we have a list of all these questions with only the right answer? A thread where only some guys can have access to change, with only questions / answers taken from other threads. Other people could only read. Ideally with links to the concerned thread... That's a great idea. Unfortunately, I expect it would require a lot of effort to create such threads, as the thread creator or creators would have to read every posting on every thread to select which postings were appropriate for which created threads and possibly place some postings on more than one of the created threads. This could be done by volunteers, but I doubt Battlefront would want to give the volunteers control over portions of the forum. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimbo Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Just fire that spreads is all I want Skimbo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 How do you get them to close assault a vehicle? Assault command? Then what happens? Do they need anything in particular? (Like grenades) What does it look like animation-wise? Haven't seen it in CMx2... Just normal move / target commands - that I am aware of. I recently lost a Panther to a platoon + of infantry in an urban close quarters fight. The tank was doing pretty well at holding off the assault moving around and pining the attackers until a bazooka team wrecked one of its tracks. My opponent then spend the next minutes working his way around on all sides. The tank crew did a good job of making him pay but once it was really surrounded there was not much to be done. The attacking soldiers moved in and out of buildings up and down floors around the tank. The tank turned and turned and fired a many of them. In the end the tank was engaging a large number of attackers in the front when a team came out of a building behind it and lobbed a grenade onto the engine deck. That did it. I have no idea how many hits the tank took. There were countless grenades, rifle grenades and bazooka shells over the many minutes before it was taken out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbmtintin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If you think about it, next month some other new member will arrive and ask exactly the same questions again. I am sorry you can't take my word for it, but life is short etc. That is exactly for these members that such a thread would be done! We could say: you have the answer there, so... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbmtintin Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 That's a great idea. Unfortunately, I expect it would require a lot of effort to create such threads, as the thread creator or creators would have to read every posting on every thread to select which postings were appropriate for which created threads and possibly place some postings on more than one of the created threads. This could be done by volunteers, but I doubt Battlefront would want to give the volunteers control over portions of the forum. Maybe only the first post could include a list, with just a few guys who can change it (with a new account?), and other people saying in other posts "for this question you have the answer from Battlefront there"... So everybody could be redirected on the first post of the thread. But someone "strong" (senior member or beta tester etc) must be included in such a project, because it will trigger a lot of debates (what to include in the list, why such answer...). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Just normal move / target commands - that I am aware of. I recently lost a Panther to a platoon + of infantry in an urban close quarters fight. The tank was doing pretty well at holding off the assault moving around and pining the attackers until a bazooka team wrecked one of its tracks. My opponent then spend the next minutes working his way around on all sides. The tank crew did a good job of making him pay but once it was really surrounded there was not much to be done. The attacking soldiers moved in and out of buildings up and down floors around the tank. The tank turned and turned and fired a many of them. In the end the tank was engaging a large number of attackers in the front when a team came out of a building behind it and lobbed a grenade onto the engine deck. That did it. I have no idea how many hits the tank took. There were countless grenades, rifle grenades and bazooka shells over the many minutes before it was taken out. So it sounds like they just do it automatically if they're close enough? Not sure I've gotten my infantry that close to an enemy tank in CMx2. I assume that you don't want to be giving them a "hide" order. Although that sounds like the only way of getting close enough... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I assume that you don't want to be giving them a "hide" order. Although that sounds like the only way of getting close enough... If you can use some kind of blocking terrain; like bocage, walls, buildings (and don't forget smoke too); you may be able to work your way close enough that a final rush is possible. And if you can come from two directions, at least some of your men should be successful. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI Adelscott Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Rubbles blocking LOS; artillery with more scatter factor, less accurate, with a minimum of radius depending on caliber (it's ridiculous to ask -and get it- a 105 point mission just 50 meters far from our FO), building protecting a bit more from mortars impacts -at least in lower floors... and the others things said this time in the first post and in previous ones talking about the same... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hello: At what point does one stop answering questions from newcomers? If you stopped a few months ago, I would have missed out on many helpful answers. I imagine it is frustrating for veterans of the forum sometimes but people can choose whether they want to answer. I hope they still will. Gerry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggard Sketchy Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 They already get the chance to close assault the vehicle, which is pretty effective, even in the absence of demo charges. There isn't really a need to waste a demo charge to make it more so. I think the point is that close assault is too effective without demo charges. ian.leslie's anecdote about a hand grenade on the engine deck doesn't make sense to me. That's 16mm thick. It's doubtful a grenade would even track a tank, unless there's a bundle of them. A demo charge, on the other hand... I guess one could chalk it down to abstraction, but I don't know the intricacies of close tank assault. Is the popular image of brave GIs forcing hatches open really plausible? Or were those lockable or something? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 At what point does one stop answering questions from newcomers? If you stopped a few months ago, I would have missed out on many helpful answers. I imagine it is frustrating for veterans of the forum sometimes but people can choose whether they want to answer. I hope they still will. Many of the answers to these repeated questions can be found by using the search function here or with the advanced search function on Google. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 How do you get them to close assault a vehicle? Assault command? IME, they just do it, if the vehicle is a valid target for their targetting parameters (i.e. they're not rigorously sticking to a covered arc looking the wrong way). Then what happens? Do they need anything in particular? (Like grenades) What does it look like animation-wise? Haven't seen it in CMx2... The few teams I've had in a position to execute a close attack have always had at least a few grenades, and the animation looks like grenade-throwing, but I can't offer anything definitive about whether or not they actually expend ammo-count to execute the attack. I've always been too taken up with watching replays to bother with details like that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The few teams I've had in a position to execute a close attack have always had at least a few grenades, and the animation looks like grenade-throwing, but I can't offer anything definitive about whether or not they actually expend ammo-count to execute the attack. I've always been too taken up with watching replays to bother with details like that Think I never noticed any ammo (grenade) expenditure for close assaulting infantry and I guess the grenade throwing animation is just a pointer, that a more abstracted "close assault" is occuring. So it could likely be grenade bundle throwing, single man climbing on tank throwing a grenade into hatches, non directly modelled sticky hollow charge HL3 attaching and so forth.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 ian.leslie's anecdote about a hand grenade on the engine deck doesn't make sense to me. That's 16mm thick. But then, a lot of those rear decks had openings such as cooling vents cut into them. The blast could knock something loose and/or start a fire in the engine compartment. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haggard Sketchy Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 True, that sort of thing is what I meant by abstraction. Small weak points, down a hatch, whatever. But it seems too easy since any thrown hand grenade is counted as accurately-placed. I'm going by the demo though so if they changed that, never mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlowMotion Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I'd like to see 2 small tweaks to how water is displayed: -now water looks either mostly greyish blue or almost white depending on which direction you look at it. I think this almost white (sun reflection?) should be at least half blue and some white. Even on sunny days water surfaces I've seen didn't reflect sun light so brightly to make water look white -maybe shallow, fordable water could be drawn with slightly different color so it would be easier to see where fording places are? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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