Cull Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 ^^^Actually, I need to break down and get me one of those. The controller, not the recliner. Oh, and the Guinness.^^^ People who have gone mouse control are, with a bit of practice, usually very happy they went that route. That would be me. It took a little getting used to but now I love it, and I hardly touch the keyboard but for a couple of movement order hotkeys. It's pretty widely accepted that WASD is clunky in CM; just forget it exists, join us on the mousy side, and never look back. One of the things I like to (do is) click any unit and TAB to get Unit Lock. Puts you right in that location focused on the unit facing in the right direction. Gerry This is a very handy method that I often forget about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 It'd be nice if you program that Guinness bottle to control your view, then you wouldn't have to let it go while you play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharaleo Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I thought that was quite clear in all my readings here on various features/shortcomings of the game? Hmmm, I don't recall any indication from the Development team that the current camera controls as they stand are are a result of engine limitations, nor that it was even acknowledged as something that could use improvement. ...an assumption about Beta Testers and BFC. A wrong one at that... Yes, perhaps I was a little harsh. But sometimes it seems improvements to interface usability is compromised in favour of, say, making tanks bounce more... I mean seriously, who was it that decided tanks bouncing more when they fired rated higher than movable waypoints? If it was BF, then they have their priorities wrong, or if it was the Beta Testers, then the wrong feedback was given. I know BF has a small but devoted programming team. I know they cannot action every little thing that every other person thinks is wrong with the game. I would not expect them to. I very much appreciate their hard work and applaud their efforts. There are too few games like this around these days. But having a small Development team is no excuse for ignoring issues that have been the subject of criticism for years. Just to re-iterate. I don't at all see camera control issues as game-breaking, just a massive barrier of entry to new players. From your comments above, I am confident that BF do pay attention to player feedback, I would just ask them to take valid criticism of such usability issues seriously and invest some time in improvements. Otherwise new players will just turn to alternatives with cleaner, more intuitive controls. If you can't make it easy for people to play your game, then they probably won't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharaleo Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 It's pretty widely accepted that WASD is clunky in CM; just forget it exists, join us on the mousy side, and never look back. Why is it widely accepted? That's half the problem. If it's a widely acknowledged problem that WASD camera movement is clunky, why don't the Dev's do something about it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cull Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Why is it widely accepted? That's half the problem. I can't argue with that, but I chose the wrong word. "Acknowledged" is the right one. If it's a widely acknowledged problem that WASD camera movement is clunky, why don't the Dev's do something about it? I think---and I'm totally guessing here---that they were so content with the mouse camera scheme that they let the WASD scheme issues slide, in the interest of working on higher priorities (like bouncy tanks ) . Not excusing that out-of-hand, but I can understand it. The mouse controls really are that good, IMHO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Actually, we thought we had the WASD issue fixed. But it seems the fix doesn't actually work right for all people. It is something that's being looked into for v1.01 since it shouldn't be an issue in v1.0, but apparently is for some. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I tried CM:SF demo (similar controls to CM:BN, I believe) while waiting for C:BN to come out. I've said this before, but I hated the controls. WASD was worthless as I'm left handed. And I mean that literally. It was of no use to me at all. I quite liked the CMBO use of the number key pad. Awesome for a lefty. I also hated having to move my mouse to the edge of the screen as I have a 30" monitor. Many other games also use this as a method to move to camera, so my dislike isn't CM specific. Thankfully, someone pointed out using the mouse buttons like has been repeatedly mentioned. Once I got over the fact that the screen moved in the opposite direction to what I was expecting, I found the controls to be quite wonderful (excepting some sensitivity issues where the screen moved faster/slower than I was expecting) So, while I can't say I'm happy I only like 1/3 methods of control, the one that works is quite nice. (and I'll admit my situation has to be rare - a left-handed person with a 30" monitor) And if the WASD is smoothed out, I'll certainly look to remap the keys to the number pad as it's quite nice to be able to move the screen and click on the unit control panels at the same time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cull Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 I'll admit to not having considered our lefty brothers, or larger monitors. I am an insensitive lout. I'd forgotten about the number pad thing. Seems like a nice solution/addition once keyboard controls get smoothed out in general. No reason it wouldn't be easy to remap the WASD controls to there, unless they're already in use for something else. I don't think they are? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user38 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 I'd forgotten about the number pad thing. Seems like a nice solution/addition once keyboard controls get smoothed out in general. No reason it wouldn't be easy to remap the WASD controls to there, unless they're already in use for something else. I don't think they are? They are. Unfortunately, the number pad keys cannot be used as hot keys. They are hardcoded as relative commands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user38 Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Vinnart, what's that thing on the left hand side of you n52. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Bump. I still think fixes to camera controls (speed and how they try to preserve viewpoints) are important and should be considered to be made before tackling more complicated UI issues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user38 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I have mentioned this before in another thread, but the left click right click camera control methods works very well for me. The problem with the other methods is that you can't control the speed of the camera movement. With the right click left click movement you can control the speed by the distance you move the mouse. An extract of my post and of Battlefront's reply is below: A problem arises when plotting waypoints. If you have to move the camera during the plotting process you have to deselect the unit to free up the left click camera move function, and when you reselect the unit with F12 the camera viewpoint changes. I can see the logic of F12 moving the camera to view the selected unit. However, given the only time I deselect a unit that I want to come back to is when I am plotting waypoints or issuing target commands away from my unit, my preference would be that F12 didn't disturb the camera viewpoint. From my point of view an extra command to select the last unit without changing the camera viewpoint would perfect the camera movement controls. However, I Battlefront's point that an additional command makes the game incrementally more difficult to master. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The one thing I'd like to see with the controls would be the ability to set your own height and angle for camera levels 1-9. The jump from 2 up to 3 is more than I'd like, and the jump from 3 to 4 is simply huge, IMO. I'd love to be able to "squash down" 1-7 so that 7 is about at 5's height, but looking out over the battlefield (for large maps). Not sure how much coding this would require, but an editable txt file allowing the user to set their own height and angle for the various presets would be most appreciated. - Chris 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Camera control is easy scroll to top of the screen to go forward, bottom of the screen to go backwards, top sides to rotate, bottom sides to strafe, scroll wheel for height, right click drag for camera angle and ctrl left click for large map jumps. Everything done with mouse except for the ctrl on the large map jumps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMG Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 How do you zoom in and out with the mouse? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I have mentioned this before in another thread, but the left click right click camera control methods works very well for me. The problem with the other methods is that you can't control the speed of the camera movement. With the right click left click movement you can control the speed by the distance you move the mouse. An extract of my post and of Battlefront's reply is below: But the speeds and acceleration (or lack thereof in some cases) are still all wrong. And you instructions only help those who are already dedicated to the game. I am more concerned about community forming. There's no forming of a community around people who don't make it 2 minutes into the demo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
user38 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 This game is stupidly hard. If you don't have a background with Combat Mission games you have to really want to play the game to get into it. My background is as an ex tabletop wargamer, a Steel Panthers tragic and and and RT games disliker. I have spent dozens of hours to get to the point where I can now play the game really badly. I have persevered because I like the idea of playing this game, and I hope one day I will be good enough at it to enjoy playing it. The issue for casual gamers is not the camera controls. The problem is that this game gives you too many control options and models too many factors. It puts you in the shoes of a combat commander and attempts to give you some of the problems and challenges faced by a combat commander. Given it probably takes hundreds or thousands of hours for a military commander to learn is trade it is hardly surprising that this is a difficult game to learn. I doubt the limiting factor in attracting casual gamers is the camera controls. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The camera controls don't help. It's one thing to be getting waxed and wondering how to do better. It's another thing to be suffering from vertigo and dropsy trying to _see_ whether you're getting waxed or not... I guess I'm one of the minority still playing CMx1 while playing CMBN. It _looks_ amazingly cartoon after CMBN, appearance wise, but man is it easier to just get around. The simple fact that you can ctrl-click on a place and actually be looking _at_ that place, no matter what camera angle you have, and the fact that you can wizz up and down camera angles and still keep looking at the same place is so liberating. Who really _needs_ infinite camera angle freedom? This is one of those liberties that's a burden. Because I _can_ adjust the camera through all degrees of freedom, now I _have_ to... that's a load. GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 How do you zoom in and out with the mouse? Never need it, never use it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Mouse wheel does height for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I think you have to bind the keys to side buttons to zoom in and out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Yes, sorry I was incorrect. I deleted my post. I use the mouse for movement and X and Z do the zoom in and zoom out. Gerry Mouse wheel does height for me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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