Best books about the Battle for Normandy ?

[Myles Keogh]

No one has mentioned Glover S. Johns' "The Clay Pigeons of St. Lo" which is a fantastic memoir of the Normandy campaign of a battalion commander in the U.S. 29th Infantry Division. It's right on target for this game: battalion level action in the bocage country. Although a professional soldier, Johns was a terrific writer. (He was later one the technical advisors for the movie "Patton.")

Joseph Balkoski raves about this book and Stephen Ambrose plagiarized from it (although he may have taken the plagiarized passages about it from Balkoski's book "Beyond the Beachhead.")

[sburke]

This book is focussed on US operations, but is very good. It is one volume of the Green Book series of official histories of the US Army in WW II. I don't know what the equivalent British history would be, nor the German. The CMH released the whole MTO/ETO series on CD-ROM several years back, and if you can obtain a copy of that, it's a real find as you will likely save quite a bit of money and it comes with all the maps, which recent reprints in paper lack.

Michael

The 4 CD volume is available at Paperless archive for $99. Periodically they do sales as well at a decent discount.

[sburke]

The 4 CD volume is available at Paperless archive for $99. Periodically they do sales as well at a decent discount.

Speaking of which it is on sale today at 25% off.

[Aragorn2002]

I recommend the Over the Battlefield-series by Ian Daglish. Operation Epsom, Goodwood and Bluecoat. For me some of the best books around on the fighting in the British sector.

[Michael Emrys]

After D Day by James Jay Carafano. Best book I have read in a while on Normandy with some interesting new insights and alternative perspectives.

I am currently reading this one and enjoying it. He hints at some actions that would be interesting to model in CM but doesn't provide the level of detail to proceed as his focus is more on the battalion-regiment level. You'd need to consult after action reports to fill out his narrative. For those willing to do that much research, he often gives sources in his chapter endnotes.

Michael

[Sgt Schultz]

One I found while rummaging for my CMBB discs...

The Panzers and The Battle of Normandy - ISBN 2 84048 135 9

http://www.amazon.com/Panzers-Battle-Normandy-June-July/dp/2840481359/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1303604532&sr=1-1 (edit ... found it for sale even)

TO&E of every Panzer Dv in the area and detailed accounts of their efforts to get to the battles. Lots of pics, a few good maps, all insignia for every panzer unit and other neat things crammed into a glossy coffee-table sized book.

[PanzerMiller]

The Canadian equivalent is Official History of the Canadian Army in the Second World War: Volume III. The Victory Campaign, The Operations in North-West Europe 1944-1945 appeared in print in 1960. This is pretty good, but again not available online ...

Actually, the Canadian history is available in full here...all 800 pages of it!

I've been reading alot of material on Epson to Totalize lately and I'm tempted to see if the Canadians offer a critical self-examination of their rather meager performance during this period. Kurt Meyer and others have been pretty critical of their tentative offensive approach.

As has been the case for me for nearly a decade now, the latest flavor of CM has prompted me to expand my WWII library even further...thank you, Battlefront!

[Sergei]

Actually, the Canadian history is available in full here...all 800 pages of it!

Holy Swedish meatballs in chili sauce, that's useful! I'll just print 100 pages per sheet to save on paper...

[JonS]

Nice. Thanks PM.

[Erik Springelkamp]

I've been reading alot of material on Epson to Totalize lately and I'm tempted to see if the Canadians offer a critical self-examination of their rather meager performance during this period. Kurt Meyer and others have been pretty critical of their tentative offensive approach.

Can you elaborate a bit about that?

Blaming others after the fact has always been part of military history written from a national perspective, so I am always a bit suspicious about it.

[PanzerMiller]

Can you elaborate a bit about that? Blaming others after the fact has always been part of military history written from a national perspective, so I am always a bit suspicious about it.

I definitely agree, and have read his book Grenadiers with the salt shaker by my side throughout (if you know what I mean...). But in this case, he's simply noting that the Canadians of II Corps, and in particular the Canadian 4th Armored Division, were waaaaaaay too tentative in their offensive operations on the north side of the Falaise Pocket in August. If they had been more aggressive on the battlefield, Meyer asserts that the Canadians could have completely destroyed what was left of 12.SS-Panzer-Division, which was at that time little more than a batallion with its 25th and 26th Panzergrenadier Regiments basically bled white. The Allies had overwhelming numerical superiority, complete control of the air, and all the momentum they needed.

So instead of blaming somebody else for their ultimate defeat (at least in this case), Meyer was only expressing surprise that his division was only badly mauled and not totally ground into the mud. In fact, he praises the advance Batallion of Canadian 4th Armored for their "outstanding performance".

[PanzerMiller]

Holy Swedish meatballs in chili sauce, that's useful! I'll just print 100 pages per sheet to save on paper...

Swedes eating chili???? Madness!!!

Interesting find, eh?

[Erik Springelkamp]

I definitely agree, and have read his book Grenadiers with the salt shaker by my side throughout (if you know what I mean...). But in this case, he's simply noting that the Canadians of II Corps, and in particular the Canadian 4th Armored Division, were waaaaaaay too tentative in their offensive operations on the north side of the Falaise Pocket in August. If they had been more aggressive on the battlefield, Meyer asserts that the Canadians could have completely destroyed what was left of 12.SS-Panzer-Division, which was at that time little more than a batallion with its 25th and 26th Panzergrenadier Regiments basically bled white. The Allies had overwhelming numerical superiority, complete control of the air, and all the momentum they needed.

So instead of blaming somebody else for their ultimate defeat (at least in this case), Meyer was only expressing surprise that his division was only badly mauled and not totally ground into the mud. In fact, he praises the advance Batallion of Canadian 4th Armored for their "outstanding performance".

Did the Canadians have the freedom to chose their own strategy?

From a few fragments I read in that linked Canadian war history I understood that Montgomery decided where to attack in force.

The chapter about the North and West of the Netherlands describes how the Canadians were about to advance into Holland proper (the West of the Netherlands) when Montgomery decided that the Canadians were to proceed to Hamburg and Schleswig in order to support the offensive towards the Elbe.

A decision that undoubtedly was part of the Cold War, but that cost many civilian lives in Holland (*).

That race for Berlin that was developing also cost the lives of an extra million Soviet soldiers I guess, but that is another topic.

[edit] (*) but it may have saved the lives of a lot of prisoners, well, what use is a what if?

[PanzerMiller]

Erik -- In the end, I think your first question gets to the crux of the issue...and the answer is almost assuredly "no". Monty undoubtedly had his own hand tightly on the trigger, and Canadian II Corps was only doing what it was told to do. As was Monty's style, he would wait to attack only until he had what he considered to be overwhelming firepower superiority, and when every tank was lined up as they were on the parade ground. According to Meyer, Churchills were lined up bogey-to-bogey across the fields near Falaise when the last attacks finally began. But Meyer apparently took the initiative and did what he could to break up the Canadian attack with his own pre-emptive counterattack. It worked, to the extent that HJ's battered remains could effectively engage in combat operations with no air and little artillery support.

For a good discussion of the leadership issues during the Normany operations and beyond, I highly recommend Patton, Montgomery, Rommel by Terry Brighton. Really good read.

As for the race to Berlin: indeed, that is another topic...!

[Tactical Wargamer]

Any good historical fiction Normandy books?

[undead reindeer cavalry]

don't use Kurt Meyer's book as a reference for 12th SS. instead use "The 12th SS" by Hubert Meyer who was an officer in the division as well.

while both in general terms regard allied operations to be too rigid, the impression i get from Hubert is that Canadians were highly regarded by the 12th SS.

[Ssnake51]

The 4 CD volume is available at Paperless archive for $99. Periodically they do sales as well at a decent discount.

Thanks much for the heads up on this. Looks like a fantastic resource. Placed my order and got 25% off.

[PanzerMiller]

don't use Kurt Meyer's book as a reference for 12th SS. instead use "The 12th SS" by Hubert Meyer who was an officer in the division as well.

while both in general terms regard allied operations to be too rigid, the impression i get from Hubert is that Canadians were highly regarded by the 12th SS.

Thanks, URC...I've got Volume 1 in my library -- haven't read it yet but actually referred to the maps therein while reading Kurt's book. I would definitely agree that Hubert's treatment looks more authoritative; Kurt's is just an appetizer. Looking forward to digging in soon!

[Greup]

An interesting book on German organization and whereabouts in Normandy. Probably good food for accurate scenario design:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Normandy-1944-Organization-Organizational-Effectiveness/dp/0921991568/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

[undead reindeer cavalry]

Thanks, URC...I've got Volume 1 in my library -- haven't read it yet but actually referred to the maps therein while reading Kurt's book. I would definitely agree that Hubert's treatment looks more authoritative; Kurt's is just an appetizer. Looking forward to digging in soon!

Kurt's book is a lot more exciting in the sense of a "great adventure".

Hubert's two volumes are one of my favorite German unit histories. i think they are a great reading for anyone interested in the battle for Caen (perhaps even for anyone interested in Normandy). he is relatively objective, often quoting allied sources and offering 12th SS loss tables for any given battle or period, and details all sorts of things in a fairly balanced manner, be it recon ops or how logistics worked. the emphasis is of course on battle accounts, often dealing with panzers.

the book is relatively clean of too much teary-eyed ideological praise of the soldiers of the division, considering that it's the division's history after all and that it's written by a guy who was a high ranking commander in it. nonetheless some things he writes surely does annoy some readers and he often quotes Kurt's book. but if one reads it with a bit of a grain of salt, perhaps accompanied by some allied sources covering the same actions, it should be a good read.

it would have been great if the book would have had even more details, but being already two lengthy volumes long i can understand why some actions are covered in greater detail than some others. the maps could be better.

most of the 2nd volume deals with other operations, like Bulge and Hungary.

BTW the guy is still alive.

[Runyan99]

Clay Pigeons of St Lo is very interesting. Read it on the recommendation of somebody here.

My own photo of the Blanchet mausoleum, St. Lo, last battalion HQ of major Glover Johns.

[umlaut]

There's a online copy of Martin Blumenson's Breakout and Pursuit:

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-E-Breakout/index.html

And here you can download it as a pdf-file:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/48311692/Breakout-and-Pursuit

[RockinHarry]

I figured "St-Lo (7 July - 19 July 1944) American Forces in Action Series" to be a good reading about the battles around St-Lo, to be found as 3 parts download here:

http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p4013coll8/id/3078/rec/2

Also browsing the online collections on this site yield many good findings about Normandy battle topics.

I´d also browse this one for more excellent online material:

http://www.history.army.mil/html/bookshelves/resmat/ww2eamet.html

[Hetzer21]

I've read two of Ambrose's books and wouldn't touch another with a pole. He calls himself a historian? A cheerleader for bias and bull**** would be more accurate. I've rarely read more distorted ****e in my life. One of his most offensive lines of crap that sticks out in my memory, words to the effect of "We pitched our civilian soldiers (101st Airborne) against the best the nazis had (1944 coerced eastern-front POWs, volks and kids etc...my words) and bested them." That's not to say the 101st didn't go up against decent troops, the Ardennes Bastogne being a good example, but those realities were disrespected by his overall tone of "We were god-like supermen!" Obsequious pap.

As for good books, I'm not sure if this is still in print, my copy is very old (1953): The Struggle for Europe, by Chester Wilmot. No ISBN I'm afraid, I don't think they had them back then. This chap was a journo in the front line and got to interview many of the top people on both sides as well as seeing stuff up close and personal. It's an absolutely superb read, incredible detail.

[Sgt Joch]

Actually, the Canadian history is available in full here...all 800 pages of it!

I've been reading alot of material on Epson to Totalize lately and I'm tempted to see if the Canadians offer a critical self-examination of their rather meager performance during this period. Kurt Meyer and others have been pretty critical of their tentative offensive approach.

As has been the case for me for nearly a decade now, the latest flavor of CM has prompted me to expand my WWII library even further...thank you, Battlefront!

Stacey is good, but the best overall books on the Canadian Army in NWE 1944-45 are the two books by Terry Copp:

http://www.amazon.ca/Fields-Fire-Canadians-Terry-Copp/dp/0802037801/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307455691&sr=1-2

http://www.amazon.ca/Cinderella-Army-Canadians-Northwest-1944-1945/dp/0802095224/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307455691&sr=1-1

Stacey, like many post-war historians falls into the traditional view that Canadians were green, tentative and only won because of numerical superiority.

Copp is part of the re-appraisal of the performance of the Canadians. Relying on many primary source documents, he shows that the Canadians fought as well as the Germans facing them.