Randomly Generated Maps

[Shrap]

Can the quick battle generator generate random battle maps?

[stikkypixie]

No, QB maps are randomly chosen from a (large) number of pre-made maps. It is of course possible to add more maps to the selection. But completely random maps are not in.

[Shrap]

Just how large is "(large) number of pre-made maps"?

[Michael Emrys]

Which is kind of a pity, even if forced by circumstance. I used randomly generated maps all the time in CMx1.

Michael

[stikkypixie]

Just how large is "(large) number of pre-made maps"?

I believe for CMSF it was somewhere around 120 maps. Will check later to know for sure. It will probably be around this number, unless this time around QBs will be more used and people make more maps. Not huge number by any means. It's a quality/practicality vs quantity thing.

Hope this helps.

[MikeyD]

I think the number of maps have spiked to over 250 now. And a lot of them are breathtaking. QBs are such a delight to play in this game I'd be surprised if we don't see a veritable 'cottage industry' of 3rd party QB map production develop.

[MeatEtr]

I think the number of maps have spiked to over 250 now. And a lot of them are breathtaking. QBs are such a delight to play in this game I'd be surprised if we don't see a veritable 'cottage industry' of 3rd party QB map production develop.

This is music to my ears!

[stikkypixie]

Yes, I have 275 QB maps for CMSF (+/- some possible duplicates). I am confident that with the revamped QB system, more QB maps will be produced.

[Canada Guy]

Has there been any word on the Meta-Tiles that I have previously heard mentioned.

I am not the world's best map maker but I think I can create some interesting maps using meta-tiles as a base and some of my own work. Some areas though would just require too much time and a steep learning curve to do justice to what is needed if I had to build the map from scratch.

[MikeyD]

Steve says he still wants meta-tiles, or however he refers to them, to show up soomeday. But there's a long list of things he wants that will take considerable coding and designing to get done right.

About building maps, I suspect people tend to be overly ambitious and so discourage themselves. A road, a hill, a house and you've got a map! Anything addiional is just gravy. One particularly dramatic map I did for CM:Afghanistan was just from an afternoon's fun playing in the editor. It was only later I thought "Hey, I could build a scenario out of this!"

[MarkEzra]

Shrap: The numbers given by others is about right but growing. Like the game itself, QB Maps have evolved a great deal in the last year. What was the end point for Shock Force is but the start point for CMBN Quick Battles.

It is my understanding that BFC will offer Random generated maps down the road. I'm sure they'll be great. But the quality of a hand made QB Map will be hard to beat.

[Shrap]

Randomly generated maps is a big deal to me, I detest canned scenarios.

In CMx1 I had so many epic battles in QB mode that is all I ever played (CMx1 BB as well). With random maps I never know where the enemy is and what is over the hill or around the corner.

The lack of Random maps is why I never purchased any of the expansions for Shock Force. If there random map generator released or some reassurance that one is inbound I'll pick up the game but for now I think I'll wait and see

Nothing personal, I love the CM team and Battlefront!

[MarkEzra]

Randomly generated maps is a big deal to me, I detest canned scenarios.

...With random maps I never know where the enemy is and what is over the hill or around the corner.

Nothing personal, I love the CM team and Battlefront!

None personally taken... You might just want to follow the threads after CMBN release and see what other players say about the state of QB's.

[Michael Emrys]

...I detest canned scenarios.

Me too, which is why QBs were almost the only thing I played in CMx1. Although sometimes they were a kind of hybrid between QBs and scenarios insofar as I would select the forces for both sides. But placement of the opposing force was still left to the AI, so there were always plenty of surprises.

That said, I am assuming in CMx2 that non-random maps DOES NOT equate with canned scenarios. Once again, I am expecting that the AI can, if allowed, choose its own forces and placement for them. So each engagement, even if played on the same map, can be unique. If I am incorrect, I hope someone with definite information will correct me.

Michael

[MikeyD]

The lack of Random maps is why I never purchased...

You detest 'canned' scenarios? But you've never played any of the vastly superior module scenarios?

There's an easy workaround to your random map needs.

Just make yourself a big pile of ugly, nonsensical, badly designed maps with random buildings scattered around them and roads going to nowhere, then mate them to AI orders entirely unrelated to the terrain. You can probably churn out one 'random' map for yourself every six minutes if you put your mind to it. Then you can post all your crappy 'random maps' to repository for the world to share.

[Shrap]

Perhaps you should leave customer comments to MarkEzra.

[Col Deadmarsh]

I'm actually looking forward to this.

I remember playing Close Combat 2 and having my favorite maps to play on. You'd think you'd get bored of them after awhile but it became really fun to revisit scenarios over and over again.

Not sure if it'll have the same effect in CM-Normandy but with others creating maps, why would you need a crummy generator anyway?

[aka_Hawk]

I played mostly QB battles with random generated maps in CMBO/BB/AK. Rural maps where mostly fairly ok, but the urban maps looked a tad strange, I'll admit. I tried my hand at map making in SF, but I never managed to make any nice maps. What I would have liked was some ability to generate natural looking hight maps (hills and valleys) which then could have been manually populated with the rest. Oh well, I will try again in BN and perhaps it'll be easier now (or I will understand more).

[James Crowley]

Me too, which is why QBs were almost the only thing I played in CMx1. Although sometimes they were a kind of hybrid between QBs and scenarios insofar as I would select the forces for both sides. But placement of the opposing force was still left to the AI, so there were always plenty of surprises.

That said, I am assuming in CMx2 that non-random maps DOES NOT equate with canned scenarios. Once again, I am expecting that the AI can, if allowed, choose its own forces and placement for them. So each engagement, even if played on the same map, can be unique. If I am incorrect, I hope someone with definite information will correct me.

Michael

I tended to do the opposite and have the AI pick for both sides, thus forcing me to 'make do' with what I had to hand, against an 'unknown' opponent.

Is this still going to be possible with the QBs in CMBN? Can the AI handle this?

[Bartokomus]

You detest 'canned' scenarios? But you've never played any of the vastly superior module scenarios?

There's an easy workaround to your random map needs.

Just make yourself a big pile of ugly, nonsensical, badly designed maps with random buildings scattered around them and roads going to nowhere, then mate them to AI orders entirely unrelated to the terrain. You can probably churn out one 'random' map for yourself every six minutes if you put your mind to it. Then you can post all your crappy 'random maps' to repository for the world to share.

MikeyD you really need to chill out; this is the third thread in a row i've read where you're attacking other people for having fairly mundane opinions. maybe just re-read your thoughts before you hit the post button?

[GhostRider3/3]

Question about map creation.

Will we be able to get as detailed as far as creating maps in Shock force.

For example I saw pictures with farm stuff, bails of hay, etc.. buckets wells.. Them Maps or Pictures I have seen so far for CM Normady have been great. The pictures themselves are very immersive, I just wanted to know if we are able to get really detailed in the creation of our own maps.. or QB maps.

Second question is, is the editor as easy as in Combat Mission Shock Force, or easier... or more difficult.

Thanks,

[George MC]

Hi Bud

All the 'stuff' you see on the maps is added by the scenario designer in the editor. So yeah using the editor you can get as detailed as you like when adding stuff to your map (IMO it's this sort of thing that really makes maps - the extra 20% that sets an excellent map apart from a good map).

The editor in CMBN works pretty much like the CMSF editor - main differences are more terrain types - but creation of contours etc and the process of ading stuff is the same. I think on the whole making good maps for Normandy is more time consuming due to hedges, bocage, differant house types etc but the maps are visually more attractive.

[GhostRider3/3]

Hi Bud

All the 'stuff' you see on the maps is added by the scenario designer in the editor. So yeah using the editor you can get as detailed as you like when adding stuff to your map (IMO it's this sort of thing that really makes maps - the extra 20% that sets an excellent map apart from a good map).

The editor in CMBN works pretty much like the CMSF editor - main differences are more terrain types - but creation of contours etc and the process of ading stuff is the same. I think on the whole making good maps for Normandy is more time consuming due to hedges, bocage, differant house types etc but the maps are visually more attractive.

Thanks GeorgeMC, that answers my questions entirely. I have drawn out maps already.. in all my excitement I have even researched intensively the battle with Michael Wittman and his Tiger vs the Brits for Villers Bocage, however I feel I may have wasted my time and someone out there has already made a beautiful map.

[MarkEzra]

From Michael Emrys: "That said, I am assuming in CMx2 that non-random maps DOES NOT equate with canned scenarios. Once again, I am expecting that the AI can, if allowed, choose its own forces and placement for them. So each engagement, even if played on the same map, can be unique. If I am incorrect, I hope someone with definite information will correct me."

The answer is yes on both counts.

James Crowley: "I tended to do the opposite and have the AI pick for both sides, thus forcing me to 'make do' with what I had to hand, against an 'unknown' opponent."

You, sir, will be in for some fun. It's the way I test the QB Maps.

[noxnoctum]

250? Damn. That's a lot. My concerns about lack of QB maps just went out the window.

And these are MAPS you're talking about right? Not scenarios?