First CMBN Preview

[rune]

t minus 2 hours to go. If you that are attending need directions, I gave you my phone number. There are open spots to park now, but you may have to look around a little.

House clean, wife going to make food, beer being brought in. All systems are go for the preview. Scenarios made, and ready tog o, sound turned up. wide screen monitors ready.

For those not attending, sorry you couldn't make it. I am sure those that are attending will fill you in with what they can.

Rune

[Phantom Captain]

So jacked!!

I'm leaving in about 55 minutes!!

[gibsonm]

So I guess its progressing well.

[flammenwerfer]

Photos of event?

[Krilly]

A drunk rune dancing naked on a tabletop?

Some QB goodness!

Give gory details!

[gibsonm]

Well its probably not even finished yet.

[rune]

No it is NOT finished yet. Still ghoing on. Seteve was nice enpught to be onloine to answer questions that cropped up.

Comments made by previewers include:

[Note most were CMX1 players that did NOT play Cmsf]

*The game plays at a different rhytem the CMX1.

* Balance is back again

* Wow, this is what we have been waiting for.

* The interface will require getting used to, but muc better then CMx1

*The artillery system is 100% better then CMX1

For those with CMSF experience:

* The weapons are not as deadly as CMSF. [Hehehehehe]

* You have t play the game slower and reson. [Rune note: This may be due to the scenarios I created for the preview]

There were questions I answered as well as questions I deferred and questions I forwarded to Steve. I told the 5 that attended to post either positive or negative on their views, but I think the bottom line is everyone left here happy. I will say that QBs were not looked at, as none of the attendees played qbs. They all played pre-made scenarios.

I will let them post the impressions they had. I hope all enjoyed the preview, and many thanks to Mouse, the General of the House.

Rune

[Phantom Captain]

First off, I have to thank rune for his outstanding hospitality and for taking the time to invite us into his home and allow us to be a part of everything. Thanks rune!! And big thanks to to Steve and all of BFC for putting these on to let us junkies get our fix early. Although, now it only makes the waiting to own the thing even worse.

Impressions:

I am a CMSF player so for me I already understood the interface, artillery, and pace of the game. It's funny but I was the only one who had experience with SF and the new engine. I explained too how I was originally one of the old hold outs from the old engine but how once I started playing SF and all the add ons and modules that I truly fell in love with it.

Have to say, wow. Just wow. Yes, we are really getting wait we have waited soooo long for!! It was exciting and amazing to be back in the WWII setting again. Something about seeing a German squad moving in line down a dirt road in Normandy, bocage on one side, green grass and trees, equipment creaking and clinking, rifles at the ready as they move out. Just wow.

Of course, rune being the evil being that he is, the scenarios he created for our get together were pretty intense, large, full of many many units and tactical traps. I tried to explain to the non-CMSF guys how the pace of the new engine is much slower, how important recon is and how deadly things can get really quickly if you don't do your due dilligence. In fact much of the time was spent examining the new units, reconning and moving into position than actually fighting. Didn't matter though, it's so cool I am happy and content to finally see our beloved WWII armies represented in 1:1 ratios. The vehicle skins and textures are really fantastic. The build we were playing didn't even have the new German unis seem in the latest screenshots but they still looked pretty spot on. Can't wait to see the finished highly polished product.

So I'll be happy to try and answer any questions about it you all might have! It's really hard for me right now to even put into words as I'm still digesting everything. All I can say is I'm really REALLY happy this is soon to be our newest addiction. It's really that amazing.

[Lanzfeld]

From all the typos in Runes post it looks as if the host got wasted!

[Paper Tiger]

Heh, heh, I got that impression too. Sounds like a good time was had by one an all.

[Spanish Bombs]

The host definitely set the pace with regard to the beer-drinking, but then he didn't have to drive home.

Thanks to Rune for the hospitality and it was very nice to meet everyone. I will post some longer thoughts tomorrow, but my first impressions are very positive. Some of the visuals were better than I ever imagined they would be, and the game play looks very promising, though the interface will take some getting used to for those of us who didn't play CMSF.

As we discussed this afternoon, the best way to get ready for CM:BN might be to play one of the existing CMX2 demos, which is something I'm going to do in the near future.

[Hermitage]

"Wow, this is what we've been waiting for."

That one statement could stand as my complete summation of the CM:BN preview. The game works, brilliantly. I think that it looks fantastic, even knowing that little tweaks will be added to improve the overall look of the game.

Quite honestly, I'm feeling some of the eagerness that I felt when I first saw CMBO, years ago. This new game feels like it is almost that big of a jump in quality and realism. The movement of units, their response to threats, and the impact of fire from all weapons looks RIGHT, to a thrilling degree. Moreover, I seriously suspect that the AI is rather smarter than I am, at least right now. I'm used to feeling that I very much have the measure of the AI in CMx1, but I can tell that that's not the case with CM:BN.

I must confess to a weakness: I am a serious High Explosive junkie. The biggest thrill in the CM:BN preview, for me, was the big increase in the amount of control that the player has over his artillery assets. I'm sure that I replayed one turn at least five times just to watch, from different angles, my artillery pounding down on the enemy. The new fire control options gave me what felt like surgical precision as I brought HE down on an enemy line, giving me a sense of deep satisfaction.

I have only the sketchiest acquaintance with CMSF; those of you who know it in depth are already well on the way to mastery of the user interface in CM:BN. For those, like myself, who haven't really delved into CMSF to any degree, I recommend some practice with, at least, the CMSF demo. The way that the command interface works is very similar between the two games, and quite different from CMx1. Where I am able to work with the CMx1 interface pretty much instinctively, the new interface requires that I think quite a lot more about how to issue the proper orders. I plan on spending some quality time with CMSF so that I will be able to hit the ground running, so to speak, when CM:BN is released.

I saw nothing in the preview that was a game breaker for me, or an inconvenience (except for my lack of experience with the command interface), or even a minor quibble. Quite the opposite; it was a thrill be be able to get my hands on the new system, work with it, and be blown away by the way it captures the reality of combat on the ground.

Big thanks to rune for so generously hosting the preview, giving us the privilege of seeing the new game in action. Big, big thanks to all the developers and playtesters, who are still working hard to make sure that each little aspect of the game works with every other little aspect. So that no one thing becomes a big, inconvenient aspect. Thanks, guys!

[rune]

Nope not drunk, just tabbed out of a game at the point I wrote that and did it in a hurry to get the players back in. Hopefully everyone had a great time and learned a lot about CMBN.

Rune

[gibsonm]

Well looks like the bar has been set.

D-5 and counting for Sydney.

[scottie]

Thanks for taking the time to post , interesting to read your feedback.

Phantom Captain said:

"In fact much of the time was spent examining the new units, reconning and moving into position than actually fighting"

Was interested to hear of some examples of "moving into position". Within the NDA can you give us any examples of the tactical problem you were presented with to solve and how you went about your execution of the solution ?

In AAR if you like with text rather than screenshots

Thanks

Scott

[ZPB II]

Reading this surely isn't easing the anticipation one bit.

[DaveyJJ]

Reading this surely isn't easing the anticipation one bit.

This, exactly. Phantom Captain and Hermitage's posts have done nothing except confirm what I've long suspected about how good this is going to be for us tactical WW2 combat gamers, and the degree of dedication and love that the Battlefront guys have for their baby. Bravo, gents. (And especially for bringing the series back to the Apple platform.) Thanks to Rune for hosting the event. Let's get this thing wrapped up, now, and out to the rest of us eager CM fans.

[Spanish Bombs]

OK, just to flesh out some of this from my perspective:

We looked at a pair of Rune scenarios, and as to be expected they were very big, with lots of units. I missed the first part of the preview in which the scenario with more armor units was featured, so my moments of game play were more infantry-centric. With that in mind, however, I was pretty much floored by some of the graphics on one of the AFVs in particular that was in the second scenario. There was also a point where a large group of infantry was scaling a stone wall that was visually striking - it felt and looked very real - as did just about everything we saw yesterday. Even just watching a bunch of guys walk down the road, and realizing that they had different helmets, was mesmerizing.

As far as gameplay goes, I never did much with CM:SF or the demos, though I'm going to be downloading one of them soon to give myself as good a chance as is possible to hit the ground running when CM:BN comes out. Seriously, that would be a much better way to get a sense of what playing CM:BN will be like more than I could ever type here based upon what I saw yesterday. The artillery system itself will bring a learning curve, though as Hermitage noted above there is no doubt that it is better and more realistic than CMx1. And more fun to play with.

One of Steve's quotes that I try to keep in mind even now having played CMx1 games for so long was something along the lines of "we like to reward the observant player". In that light, while the new interface will take some time to learn, the knowledge that many of us already have, be it from CMx1 or elsewhere, will certainly come in handy. For example, at one point we heard a MG 42 open up and the whole room identified it immediately by sound, at which point we tracked it down and watched the impact it was having on the receiving end.

I sense that bocage is going to be a huge element in CM:BN, this was pretty evident yesterday. Figuring ways around it, or through it, and trying to prevent the same, are going to be central to many scenarios (as well it should be).

Finally, thinking back to the CM:BO days, I recall being frustrated the first few (OK, dozen) times I played the game. I had a lot to learn historically about the weapons and units of the era, certainly, but the controls and rules and the exceptions to them took some getting used to. Fortunately, I never waivered in trying to put it all together - everything I had read about the game and even my own halting introduction convinced me that it was worth the effort. Its now a decade later and I'm still a daily player of CMBB and CMAK - sticking with it paid off big-time. I'm sure there will be moments of frustration while scaling the learning-curve for CM:BN also, but everything I've read about the improvements with CM:SF and everything we've seen posted here about CM:BN , and everything I saw yesterday has convinced me that the pay off will be enormous.

One note in advance of the other previews happening shortly - if there was any downside to yesterday it was that we ran out of time. As I mentioned above, Rune made a couple of his scenarios especially for us, but the second one I saw the most of was battalion-level, and we were just getting to the good stuff by the time my clock ran out for me (I had the feeling Rune would have let us stay later, gracious host that he is). Things were also slowed down by the constant discussion, and Rune never hesitated to give us some insight into what was going into the game, plus there were some technical difficulties on a second computer. Perhaps a smaller scenario at the other previews will give the attendees a better sense of the full range of the game. Otherwise, I'm just going to have to wait until the game is released to finish the scenario we started yesterday...

[Phantom Captain]

Thanks for taking the time to post , interesting to read your feedback.

Phantom Captain said:

"In fact much of the time was spent examining the new units, reconning and moving into position than actually fighting"

Was interested to hear of some examples of "moving into position". Within the NDA can you give us any examples of the tactical problem you were presented with to solve and how you went about your execution of the solution ?

In AAR if you like with text rather than screenshots

Thanks

Scott

Yeah, ummm, we weren't allowed to take screenshots unfortunately. Rune would have for sure sicked his dogs on us if we even dare attempted! The beasts were just lying there, giving us the eye the whole time as if we were fresh strips of raw steak, waiting for the word to attack!

Anyway, to answer you a bit more now that I've had time to really think about everything some more. I got to play two freshly created scenarios that rune put together specifically for the preview. Both were pretty decent sized maps and had quite a few units. I would say about a battalion for each side for both. CMSF players will know that's a lot of units to slowly consolidate and get into positions.

The major tactical problem in either scenario was...the bocage. Lots of it. We were in Normandy, mind you. I was third to the preview and rune had two computers up and running. The guys playing first were not veteran CMSF players so rune suggested playing the Germans to them as the Germans were the defenders and it would be easier for them to start to familiarize themselves with the interface as defenders instead of trying to move an entire battalion into position and attack....through the bocage.

Once I got on it was decided that I would play the same from the American side as I'm familiar with both the interface, engine and pace since I own and play CMSF and all the modules (as well as BO, BB and AK! ).

Tactically the Americans started with their armor on a narrow road lined with hedgerows on both sides. The road jogged right for a bit before making a left and plunging directly forward into the German lines. I figured, rightly, that that approach would be very much covered and highly defended. Anyone showing their head there would be sure to have it shot off. Just for fun I ran one of my Greyhounds, fast, straight down the road as a sacrifice. He actually got pretty far preceeding about 500 meters straight down the road, passing a panzergrenadier panzerfaust team and running headlong into a German 75mm Pak 40 in the crossroads guarded by a beautiful little Panther tank sitting under a tree. Pretty much simultaneously the Greyhound was hammered by both the gun, the tank and a panzerfaust to the rear. Fun.

My infantry was divided on either side of my starting point up the road, half on one side, half on the other. I had a ton of infantry, MG teams and ammo bearers (which I have to say is awesome!! The MG teams are divided into one team with the gun and one team as ammo bearers. The gun can be deployed and shoot, and keep shooting, while ammo bearers can cover, manuever, or naturally, run for ammo!!) on map 60mm mortars and a platoon of engineers with satchel charges. Mmmm, can satchel charges blow holes in the hedgerows you ask? Why, yes. Yes they can.

Anyway, I realized I needed to get my armor off the road. I had six different Shermans and yes one was a rhino. Two M10s. About 6-8 Stuarts, two of these also having the rhino set up for cutting hedgerows. Three Greyhounds, one of which bought the farm as described above and 4-5 various command halftracks.

I started by cutting holes on either side of the road with my rhino tanks so as to get them all immediately off the roads and into the fields. Lo and behold, cutting a Stuart sized hole in the hedgerow does not allow an M10 sized vehicle through such a small passageway. Another awesome "how cool" moment. Time to widen those openings! That of course took time. Planning and cutting my passages into the fields beyond.

Right off the bat I started moving my infantry up to the first line of hedgerows so as to get some eyes on the next fields and see if I could spot any enemy. The Germans immediately started hammering one side of the road right at the hedges I was attempting to move up. I had my men go to ground and wait out the bombardment. Not sure what size was incoming but it was pretty hefty. I had my men stop and drop about 100 yards from the row and I still wound up taking 2-3 casualties from the arty dropping 100 yards away. Hmmm, does artillery blow holes in the hedgerows from a 4-5 minute sustained bombardment?? Why yes, yes it does. A nice 30 meter hole right in the hedgerow directly in front of two squads waiting to advance. So the bombardment eventually subsides and I move a Stuart over to peek through that hole in the hedges and to cover my advancing men. Sure enough, as soon as my men start moving again they begin taking German rifle and MG fire as they are now exposed through the hole in the hedgerows. Awesome. Two panzerfaust or schreck rounds, not sure which come through trying to hit my Stuart which immediately starts returning fire into the hedges he can see.

I double quick my platoon up and have them take positions this side of the hedges and start returning fire into the German hedgerow ahead. It was about 80 yards from my hedgerow.

I decide to call some of my own 60mm mortar goodness in a linear fire mission down on the offending hedgerow. Here was another of my "wow, so cool" moments experienced in the first few minutes of the game. Bringing up the artillery tab I see all my on map mortars including 2 of which are deployed and 5 which aren't yet. I also have an 81mm off map and some other gun, can't remember which now. So I plot my linear request using the two tabs for mortars that are deployed hit confirm and see the fire lines appear from two mortars on map that I had previously deployed. Totally totally cool. As long as your on map mortars are deployed, any HQ with a radio can call and plot them. Your mortars can direct fire at what they see or indirect with the artillery tab.

Kind of a long answer to a pretty simple question so far, eh? I'll leave it at that for now.

[Other Means]

Don't forget, if you're in the UK I'm having a preview in Liverpool on Sat the 19th.

Three confirmed so far - plenty of seats for the rest.

I've got the use of the office (sure helps being the head of IT) so we should be OK having a LAN HTH.

There may be beer involved.

[ChrisND]

Totally totally cool. As long as your on map mortars are deployed, any HQ with a radio can call and plot them.

Just a bit of clarification for those who will wonder, your mortars must also possess a link to the radio network for this work, or be within visual/shouting distance, as you would naturally expect.

[theFightingSeabee]

Sounds like the first preview was a great success. It's cool to hear impressions from both players who play CMSF and the die-hard CMx1 players. Going from CMx1 must be a shock! I'm curious if Phantom Captian was noticing certain things about the interface that are new from CMSF.

Anyways, sounds like rune knows how to throw a party. I'd probably have been the last one there drinking and eating sloppy joes.

[scottie]

Brilliant write up , thank you for that , loving that fact the hedge rows are destructible , really sounds like the realism has been taken to a new level.

Bringing up the artillery tab I see all my on map mortars including 2 of which are deployed and 5 which aren't yet.

So if i had an on map 105 or 150 inf gun , wonder if that could be called up for a bombardment too ?

Don't forget, if you're in the UK I'm having a preview in Liverpool on Sat the 19th. Three confirmed so far - plenty of seats for the rest. I've got the use of the office (sure helps being the head of IT) so we should be OK having a LAN HTH. There may be beer involved.

Would love too, really I would, I appreciate the invite. Im on the east coast of Scotland a good 6 hours drive away , I have two x under 2 year old babies to manage and a "moany" wife .... not to mention i'm on call for 25 odd servers several of which are misbehaving. Any free time i get at the moment is generally in the very late - early hours at the weekend only. Enjoy the free time if you have it chaps cos my god i miss it now.

[Baneman]

Heh, I'm also in Scotland and wishing I could make the trip. Ah well

[Other Means]

Ah Scottie, I never knew what true happiness was until I had kids. And by then it was too late.

I'm sure it’ll just make the anticipation all the sweeter.