CMBO CM:BN Equipment comparrison chart

[Sarge]

i did a search for missing units, but only found this thread.

can someone answer to these 'missing' pieces?

its only a surface of what could have been included, but i wonder why at all.

a short list, and i should admit i'm not a student of time frame / availability and so that may be the reason for all.. but here goes:

US quad 50 HT

G FLaK - like 20mm either single barrel or quad

G that big butt tractor to haul the 88 and crew around... i can't find a vehicle that will move the 88 speaking of the 88 Flak, - why not the smaller caliber? if the Allied player has fighters, that weapon isn't going to down anything.

what about the smaller ATG for the Germans? that 75mm was as widely used if not more than the 88 wasn't it? or was it only the Eastern front?

is there a larger list?

sorry if i've touched a sore spot, i'm very happy with the sim, just wondering why some pieces weren't included ~

[hoolaman]

There is no AAA in the game because ground to air fire wasn't seen as a high enough priority to code into the game. The guns weren't included for ground fire role either because supposedly people would complain they weren't firing at planes.

Ditto for anything that shoots fire.

No idea about the tractor for the 88s.

75mm and 50mm German PaK are in the game. There are no onboard versions of indirect artillery howitzers like there were in CMBO. Not a big deal since they shouldn't be near the front anyway, but nice to have for simulating overrun rear areas.

[YankeeDog]

There are no onboard versions of indirect artillery howitzers like there were in CMBO. Not a big deal since they shouldn't be near the front anyway, but nice to have for simulating overrun rear areas.

Well, while the longer barrel howitzers aren't on-map in the game, on the German side, we do get the 75mm leIG18 and and 150mm sIG22 on map, which are howitzers in fact if not in name, and probably the most likely non-AT guns to end up close enough to the action that they would get involved in a direct fire firefight.

Though examples of them being used in anything other than an indirect fire role are extremely rare, I suppose it might be nice eventually to have the 75mm pack howitzer and 105mm howitzer on the U.S. side to simulate overrun/desperate defense situations. It's not something I miss much, but as long as we're wishing for the moon, hey, why not?

Also worth noting that in the ATG category, we currently have both the 75mm PaK40 and 76.2mm Pak36® for the Germans. So there really are a fair number of German ATGs in the game already; all of the common types in Normandy, as far as I know. Perhaps we'll eventually get some more rare guns in the final "Odds 'n Sods" module... IIRC there were some captured French types and the like in some of the German 2nd line units. Then there are the 37mm ATGs... it's unclear to me whether any significant number of these were actually in Normandy for either side. They were officially still part of the U.S. Airborne TOE, but regardless of what the TOEs said, had apparently all been replaced by 57mm ATGs in time for the Normandy landings. Possibly some of the more poorly equipped units on the German side still had some, though; I don't know offhand.

[Sarge]

thanks for the replies Gents!

i overlooked the German smaller caliber ATG's and tho i understand the reasoning of not having the Quads (either side) i think they should be in game ~ but maybe the whole AAA concept is too 'hollywood' in my mind

now off to find something that can move that 88!

[akd]

The process for moving and setting up a Flak 88 was far more complicated and time consuming than hooking up an AT gun. I think it is considered beyond scope for the game.

[Sequoia]

But I would still like to see the Sdkfz 7 eventually just cause it would have been there with the 88's even though we don't get the hooking and unhooking ability. If nothing else the crew could use it to run away in if the gun is knocked out.

By the way in artillery terms the difference between a gun and a howitzer is that a howitzer fires its shells in a higher trajectory than a gun. This generally gives guns a longer range but I believe less accuracy. The 75mm leIG18 and and 150mm sIG22 were direct fire infantry guns.

[akd]

By the way in artillery terms the difference between a gun and a howitzer is that a howitzer fires its shells in a higher trajectory than a gun. This generally gives guns a longer range but I believe less accuracy. The 75mm leIG18 and and 150mm sIG22 were direct fire infantry guns.

Well, they are howitzers assigned to the infantry. The gun/howitzer distinction is not so rigid in practice (e.g. look at the British). German IGs were used for indirect fire, including high-angle indirect fire.

[YankeeDog]

By the way in artillery terms the difference between a gun and a howitzer is that a howitzer fires its shells in a higher trajectory than a gun. This generally gives guns a longer range but I believe less accuracy.

Correct on the first part, but not the second. Generally, maximum range for artillery is reached when the barrel is elevated to a little above 45 degrees -- the exact max. range elevation varies a bit depending on size of shell and velocity -- were air resistance no factor, the max. range elevation would always be 45 degrees. But since air resistance obviously is a factor, especially with heavier, higher velocity shells, greater range can be achieved by a slightly higher trajectory, which gets the shell up to higher elevation faster, where air resistance is less.

So As long as the barrel can be elevated to at least about 50 degrees range is more about the maximum velocity at which the system can throw the shell. Most gun systems can, in fact, reach 45+ degrees elevation. So in many cases, the longest range systems are large caliber, high velocity guns or gun/howitzers.

Accuracy is complex, too. Howitzers can be less accurate, especially in high or unpredictable wind conditions since the high, long trajectory makes the shell more affected by atmospheric forces. But the high trajectory can also reduce range deviation. So it depends on the nature of the shoot. But as a general statement, I don't think you can say that howitzers are necessarily less accurate than guns.

The 75mm leIG18 and and 150mm sIG22 were direct fire infantry guns.

Not always. They were designed to, and doctrinally intended to, execute both direct fire and indirect fire missions. When in the indirect fire role, they are functionally howitzers, generally firing in high trajectory (note that both systems were capable of elevations well above 45 degrees).

[Vinnart]

It's like Miss September vs Rossie O' Donnel. No comparison. I salute the graphic artist. Great job! The units look absolutly eye candyalicious.

[Mord]

UPDATED CMBN US EQUIPMENT LIST (Includes Market Garden & Vehicle Pack)

..........AMERICAN TANKS

......CM:BO.........................CM:BN

M4 Sherman.................M4 Sherman Late
.................................M4 Sherman Late (Rhino)
.................................M4 Sherman Mid


M4(105) Sherman.........M4 105 Sherman Early
................................M4 105 Sherman Early (Rhino)
................................M4 105 Sherman Mid


M4A1 Sherman ..........M4A1 Sherman Late
...............................M4A1 Sherman Late Rhino
...............................M4A1 Sherman Mid

M4A1 (76)W..............M4A1 76W Sherman Early
..............................M4A1 76W Sherman Mid

M4A3 Sherman...........M4A3 Sherman
...............................M4A3 Sherman (Rhino)





N/A..........................M4A3 105 Sherman Early
...............................M4A3 105 Sherman Early (Rhino)
...............................M4A3 105 Sherman Mid

M4A3 75W Sherman.....M4A3 75W Sherman Early
...............................M4A3 75W Sherman Early (Rhino)
...............................M4A3 75W Sherman Mid

M4A3 76W Sherman....M4A3 76W Sherman Early
..............................M4A3 76W Sherman Mid

M4A3 E2 Sherman (Jumbo)........N/A ?


M5a1 Stuart..............M5a1 Stuart Late
..............................M5a1 Stuart Late (Rhino)


N/A.........................Sherman Crab (Veh Pack)

AMERICAN TANK DESTROYERS

M10.........................M10 GMC (Rhino)
..............................M10 GMC
..............................M10 GMC Late


M18 Hellcat...............M18 Hellcat (MG Module)


M7 Priest..................N/A

M7B1 Priest...............M7B1 Priest

M8HMC.....................M8HMC




.......AMERICAN ARMORED CARS, HALFTRACKS ETC.


M8 Greyhound................M8 AC Early
...................................M8 AC Mid

M20 Arm. Utility Car........M20 AC

M3A1 Scout Car.............N/A

Jeep.............................Jeep

Jeep MG.......................Jeep MMG


N/A...............................Jeep (.50 Cal) (MG Module)

Truck...........................2.5 Ton Truck


M21 Mortar Carrier..........M21 Halftrack (?) may or may not be same


M3 Halftrack..................M3 Halftrack (1x M1919)
...................................M3 Halftrack (2x M1919)
...................................M3 Halftrack (1x M2HB)

M3A1 Halftrack...............M3A1 Halftrack (M2HB and M1919)
...................................M3A1 Halftrack (M2HB)

M4A1 Mortar Carrier.........M4A1 Halftrack



N/A..................................M15A1 CMGC AA halftrack (MG Module)

N/A..................................M16 MGMC quad 50.cal AA halftrack (MG Module)

N/A.....................................M12 GMC (Veh Pack)

.........AMERICAN AT GUNS/MORTARS (On Map)

57mm AT..................57mm M1 AT

76mm AT..................76mm M5 AT

105mm M2A1 How.......N/A

40mm Bofors AA..........Bofors 40mm AA (MG Module)

90mm M2 AA...............N/A


N/A..............................M51 quad 50.cal AA gun (MG Module)


N/A..............................M1A1 75mm pack howitzer (MG Module)

60mm Mortar...............60mm M2 Mortar
81mm Mortar...............81mm M1 Mortar

 

 

CMBO had 24 armor/vehicles and 5 AT guns from June to September 44.
CM:BN has 47 vehicles and 3 AT guns.

CMBN has 19 new vehicles that were not in CMBO

Vehicles Missing; M7 Priest, Sherman Jumbo, M21 halftrack? It was decided White Scout cars not in service in France/Holland.




M3 Halftrack has X3 Versions

M3A1 Halftrack has X2 Versions

2.5 Ton Truck has X2 Versions




Mord.
 

[Mord]

..........GERMAN TANKS & ARMOR

......CM:BO.........................CM:BN

Panzer IVG.....................Pz IV G Early
....................................Pz IV G Late
....................................Pz IV G Latest

Panzer IVH.......................Pz IV H Early
.....................................Pz IV H Late

Panzer IVJ.......................Pz IV J Early
.....................................Pz IV J Late

Panzer IV 70(v)..................Jagdpanzer IV/70 (MG Module)

N/A.....................................Pz IIIG tank (MG Module)

Jagdpanzer IV......................Jpz IV Early
........................................Jpz IV Early (HQ)

Jagdpanzer IV Skirt................Jpz IV Mid
.........................................Jpz IV Mid (HQ)

..........................................Jpz IV Late
..........................................Jpz IV Late (HQ)


StuH 42..............................StuH 42 Early

N/A....................................StuH 42 Mid

StuH 42 Late.......................Stuh42 Late


Strumgeschutz IIIG................StuG III G Early

N/A.....................................StuG III G Mid

Strumgeschutz IIIG Late..........StuG III G Late

Strumgeschutz IV.....................N/A


Tiger VIE..............................Tiger Mid

Tiger VIE Late.......................Tiger Late


Panther VA............................Panther A Early
...........................................Panther A Mid
...........................................Panther A Late

Panther VG............................Panther G Early

N/A......................................Panther D Late


N/A......................................Flammpanzer Char B-2(f) (Veh Pack)



Hetzer....................................N/A

Lynx.......................................Lynx (CW Module)

Hotchkiss................................N/A

N/A..............................Panzerkampfwagen R-35 731(f)

JagdPanther............................Jagdpanther (CW Module)

King Tiger...............................King Tiger tank w/ Henschel turret

King Tiger (Porsche Turret).........King Tiger (Porsche turret) (CW Module)




..........GERMAN SELF-PROPELLED GUNS ETC.

N/A.........................................Marder I (CW Module)


Marder II..................................Marder II (MG Module)

Marder III Late..........................Marder III Late

Wespe....................................Wespe (CW Module)

Hummel...................................Hummel (Veh Pack)

Nashorn...................................N/A

N/A.........................................Grille (early)

Whirblewind..............................Wirbelwind (Mg Module)

N/A...........................................Geschützwagen 39H(f) 75mm (Veh Pack)

N/A...........................................Geschützwagen 39H(f) 105mm (Veh Pack)

N/A............................................SdKfz 135/1 150mm (Veh Pack)



N/A...........................................Flakpanzer 38(t)







..........GERMAN ARMORED CARS, HALFTRACKS, ETC.


SdKfz2 7 Guntractor..................N/A

SdKfz2 7/1 Flak........................Sdkfz 7/1 flak (MG Module)

SdKfz2 7/2 Flak........................Sdkfz 7/2 flak (MG Module)



PSW 234/1 AC.........................Psw 234/1

PSW 234/2 Puma.....................Psw 234/2 Puma

PSW 234/3 AC.........................PSW 234/3 AC (MG Module)


N/A..........................................PSW 222

N/A..........................................PSW 223

N/A..........................................PSW 233 (MG Module)

N/A..........................................PSW 231 (MG Module)





SPW 250/1...............................Sdkfz 250/1 D Halftrack

N/A............................................Sdkfz 250/1 C Halftrack (MG Module)


N/A.........................................Sdkfz 250/3 D Halftrack

N/A.........................................Sdkfz 250/3 C Halftrack (MG Module)


SPW 250/7...............................Sdkfz 250/7 D Halftrack

N/A...........................................Sdkfz 250/7 C Halftrack (MG Module)

SPW 250/9...............................Sdkfz 250/9 D Halftrack

N/A............................................Sdkfz 250/9 C Halftrack (MG Module)


N/A............................................SPW 250/10 (neu) halftrack (MG Module)

SPW 251/1..............................Sdkfz 251/1 D Halftrack

N/A............................................SPW 251/1 Ausf C halftrack (MG Module)

SPW 251/2..............................Sdkfz 251/2 D Halftrack

N/A............................................SPW 251/2 Ausf C halftrack (MG Module)


N/A............................................Sdkfz 251/3 D Halftrack

N/A.............................................SPW 251/7 Ausf C halftrack (MG Module)

SPW 251/9.................................Sdkfz 251/9 D Halftrack

N/A..............................................SPW 251/9 Ausf C halftrack (MG Module)


N/A..............................................Sdkfz 251/10 D Halftrack

N/A..............................................SPW 251/10 Ausf C halftrack (MG Module)


SPW 251/16...............................SPW 251/16 Ausf. D (Veh Pack)

N/A..............................................SPW 251/17 Ausf D halftrack (MG Module)

N/A...............................................SPW 251/21 Ausf D halftrack (MG Module)


N/A................................................Flak 36 37mm (MG Module)


N/A................................................Flak 38 20mm (MG Module)

N/A................................................Möbelwagen AA vehicle (MG Module)

N/A.................................................Sdkfz 10/5 AA halftrack (MG Module)

N/A................................................SPW Halftrack U304(f) (Veh Pack)

N/A................................................SPW Halftrack U304(f)-2 (Veh Pack)

N/A................................................SPW Halftrack U304(f)-3 (Veh Pack)

N/A................................................SPW Halftrack U304(f)-10 (Veh Pack)


Kubelwagen...................................Kubelwagen

Opel Blitz......................................Opel Blitz (2 Variations)

N/A...............................................Protze 70 light truck (MG Module)




..........GERMAN AT GUNS AND MORTARS (On Map).

50mm Mortar................................LeGrW 36 50mm mortar (MG Module)

81mm Mortar.............................81mm GrW 34 Mortar

N/A.............................................KzGrW 42 81mm mortar (MG Module)

75mm IG...................................75mm leIG 18

150mm IG..................................150mm sIG 33

N/A.............................................PaK 36 37mm AT gun (MG)

50mm Pak38...............................50mm PaK 38

75mm Pak40..............................75mm PaK 40

88mm Pak43..............................88mm PaK 43

88mm Pak43/41..........................88mm PaK 43/41

20mm Quad Flak................................N/A

88mm Flak.................................88mm Flak 36

75mm Howitzer...................................N/A

105mm Howitzer.................................N/A

75mm Recoiless..................................LG40 recoilless gun (MG Module)

105mm Recoiless.................................N/A

88mm Pupchen...................................N/A

37mm Flak.........................................N/A




NOTES:

CMBO had 27 different Tanks, SP Guns, and TDs.
CMBN  has 42 (excluding HQ units).


CMBO had 15 Halftracks, Armored Cars and support vehicles.
CMBN has 43.

CMBO had 14 AT Guns.
CM:BN has 9.

3 Vehicle are missing (Hotchkiss, Strumgeschutz IV and SdKfz2 7 Guntractor ). The Nashorn, and Hetzer were deemed outside the time frame.

CMBN has 47 armor/vehicles that were not included in CMBO.



Mord.

[Mord]

BRITISH TANKS

CMBO..................CMBN

N/A.......................Sherman I
N/A.......................Sherman IC
Sherman II............Sherman II
Sherman III...........Sherman III
Sherman V.............Sherman V
Sherman VC..........Sherman VC

N/A........................Sherman Crab (Veh Pack)



N/A........................Churchill IV
N/A........................Churchill V
Churchill VI...............Churchill VI
Churchill VII..............Churchill VII
Churchill VIII..............Churchill VIII
Churchill Avre.............Churchill MkX LT (Veh Pack)
Churchill Croc..............Churchill Crocodile (Veh Pack)

Cromwell IV................Cromwell IV
Cromwell VI................Cromwell VI
Cromwell VII...............Cromwell VII
Cromwell VIII...............Cromwell VIII

Challenger..................Challenger Mk VIII tank (MG Module)
Centaur IV..................N/A

N/A.............................Crusader III AA Mk II tank (Mg Module)


N/A..........................Stuart III
Stuart V....................Stuart V
N/A...........................Stuart VI

BRITISH TANK DESTROYERS/SPs

Achilles.....................Achilles
Wolverine..................Wolverine
Sexton......................Sexton
N/A...........................Priest


BRITISH ARMORED CARS, HALFTRACKS ETC

M5 Halftrack...................M5 Halftrack
M5A1 Halftrack...............M5A1 Halftrack
N/A..................................M9A1 Halftrack

N/A.................................M3 GMC halftrack (MG Module)


White Scout Car.............White Scout Car
N/A................................Otter LRC
Diamler MkII..................Diamler MkII

N/A................................Daimler Dingo (MG Module)

N/A................................Diamler MkII LittleJohn (MG Module)

N/A................................Diamler SOD

Humber MkIII..................Humber MkIII
N/A.................................Humber MkIV
N/A.................................T17 Staghound


Universal Carrier MMG........Universal Carrier Vickers
Universal Carrier..................Universal Carrier Bren
N/A.......................................Universal Carrier Mortar
N/A......................................Universal Carrier OP
N/A......................................Lloyd Carrier
Wasp...................................N/A

Stuart Kangaroo.................Stuart Kangaroo (Veh Pack)
Ram Kangaroo....................Priest Kangaroo (Veh Pack)
N/A......................................Stuart III Recce (Veh Pack)

Truck.................................Bedford QLD GS
N/A......................................Bedford QLT troop
Jeep..................................N/A

N/A....................................Jeep w/ mounted Vickers

N/A..................................Jeep w/ mounted Bren MG

BRITISH AT GUNS/MORTARS (On Map)

6pdr............................6pdr
N/A.............................6pdr Airborne
17pdr..........................17pdr
25pdr..........................N/A
40mm Bofors AA........Bofors 40mm AA

N/A............................M1A1 75mm pack howitzer

2 Inch Mortar...........2 Inch Mortar
3 Inch Mortar...........3 Inch Mortar

CMBO had 31 vehicles/armor in total.
CMBN has 52

CMBN is missing 2 vehicles that were in CMBO (the Centaur and Wasp). There is also a plain Jeep missing but there are two Jeep variants so I am not counting it.

 

CMBO had 4 AT guns.
CMBN has 5. (Missing 25pdr)

 

CMBN has 24 new vehicles 2 AT guns that weren't in CMBO.




Mord.

[Mord]

CMBO had a total game count of 125 armor/vehicles for the period covering June 44-May 45
CMBO has a total count of 97 armor/vehicles for June 44-Sept 44
CMBN has a total count of 185 armor/vehicles for June 44-May 45
CMBN includes 90 armor/vehicles that were not in CMBO for the time span or at all.
CMBN is missing 8 vehicles that were in CMBO.

You can figure out the AT guns and Mortars....

NOTE: I included Rhino variants in the final tally but left them out of the total New Vehicle count. Even if you exclude them completely it is still an impressive total.

 

 

 

Mord.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Mord

[Doodlebug]

Well that's an eye-opener if ever there was. 

 

Thanks for the analysis.

[delliejonut]

Big time necro dude. LOVE IT.

 

This game would be complete if only they included the 25 lber AT gun. If only.

 

[womble]

25lb ATG? Was that really a thing? Ever? The 17lber was enough of a moose...

[Mord]

@Doodlebug...You're welcome.

 

 

Big time necro dude. LOVE IT.

 

A man's gotta to finish what he starts...even if he looks like a girl.

 

 

Mord.

 

P.S. It's not the first body I have exhumed...

[Fizou]

Thanks for the compilation Mord, really nice.

 

I do hope the pack was enough of a good deal for BF to do it again. Tank riders, on map mortar vehicles and we really have to have the SdKfz2 7 Guntractor.

[Sequoia]

Two quick comments. The Sherman Jumbo would be outside the timeframe.

The Nashorn existed in the timeframe but I believe never fought in Northwest Europe in the timeframe (if ever).

 

Thanks for the work Mord. Good job.

[delliejonut]

 

P.S. It's not the first body I have exhumed...

 

Don't think I don't appreciate it. I'm just impressed is all. I forget about my posts as they happen.

 

Thanks for all your hard work though, it is really nice to have info like this in one place. I typically save these kind of posts to a word doc on my computer.

[Mord]

Thanks for the compilation Mord, really nice.

 

I do hope the pack was enough of a good deal for BF to do it again. Tank riders, on map mortar vehicles and we really have to have the SdKfz2 7 Guntractor.

 

Yeah, there's enough out there I think where they could squeeze another pack out. The French were left out completely, the Wasp is MIA, quite a few German AT guns unless new research showed they weren't in service at the time. I am sure we could find enough to warrant a release. LOL.

 

Two quick comments. The Sherman Jumbo would be outside the timeframe.

The Nashorn existed in the timeframe but I believe never fought in Northwest Europe in the timeframe (if ever).

 

Thanks for the work Mord. Good job.

 

I couldn't remember what was said about the Jumbo (and was too lazy to read more). I spent 9 hours compiling what I thought would take me about 2, and I was was pretty fried by the time I posted this. So that puts it down to 7 MIA.

 

It's funny seeing the completed list after all the speculation way back when. We really ended up with a lot of killer equipment. A couple of my choices for what constitutes a countable vehicle could probably be disputed but even if you sheared 20 off the list, it is a huge amount, and out numbers CMBO. So much for the quantity argument.

 

 

Don't think I don't appreciate it. I'm just impressed is all. I forget about my posts as they happen.

 

Thanks for all your hard work though, it is really nice to have info like this in one place. I typically save these kind of posts to a word doc on my computer.

 

I didn't take it any other way, I was just joking along...except for the exhuming bodies part...I never joke about my sex life.

 

 

 

 

Mord.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Mord

[John Kettler]

Mord,

 

What a fabulous gut-busting research piece! Danke mucho! What you've shown to be true is very much counterintuitive on the face of it, but with the CW and MG Modules in, as well as the Vehicle Pack Ive yet to acquire, it's clear our toy box is pretty full, with an unexpected gift here and there. I would point out, though, that CMBO did have a .50 HMG equipped jeep. I say this with absolute certainty, having lost a Hetzer to a point blank range lethal burst in the right flank from one as the result of a slightly detuned gamey jeep rush!  Am I correct in a vague recollection that whatever we have in our personal total CMBN array is now usable at will, provided the dates fit? Am fairly certain this is the case, for I recall something about BFC's plan to make it so only one player needed the appropriate toys in order for both to use their respective forces.

 

Regards,

 

John Kettler

[Mord]

I thought that Jeep was in CMBO. It may have even been a typo, I can't even remember adding it I was so tired. It was a real PIA hornet's nest. I found quite a few mistakes from the original list I made at the beginning of this thread.

 

BFC hasn't added the code yet for HTH sharing of content as far as I remember. That was/is their plan, though but it's been a while since anything was mentioned. Right now to use what's in all of the modules/pack in PBEM or RT HTH, both people have to own the content that is portrayed in the scenario or QB selections.

 

 

EDITED: Looking at the online CMBO vehicle list (I originally made my list from using the CMBO game editor) I gave CMBO credit for a medium MG Jeep instead of the .50 Cal version. CMBO didn't have a Jeep with a .30 as far as I remember. So, it doesn't change the tally count, just the unit.

 

Mord.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Mord

[JonS]

Good work Mord.

UPDATED CMBN US EQUIPMENT LIST (Includes Market Garden & Vehicle Pack)

AMERICAN TANK DESTROYERS

CMBO..................CMBN

M7 Priest.............N/A
M7B1 Priest........M7B1 Priest

 

IIRC, either both the Priests are included in CMBN (c/w modules etc), or the M7 was excluded because it doesn't belong - they'd all been upgraded to/replaced by the B1 standard by June '44. Which touches on another point regarding 'that other thread': just because it was in CMx1 doesn't mean it belongs there. The amount of focused, targeted research that goes into the CMx2 TOEs is astonishing.

 

In a similar vein, a couple of years ago someone was chuntering about all the 'missing' stuff from CMFI, so I compared infantry TOEs for the Americans in CMAK (Italy timeframe) and CMFI (incl GL), Even though CMFI covers a shorter slice of the Italian Campaign, there are vastly more discrete TOEs available for the Americans. I feel safe in assuming the same is just as true of the British, Italians, and Germans.

[Mord]

Good work Mord.

 

IIRC, either both the Priests are included in CMBN (c/w modules etc), or the M7 was excluded because it doesn't belong - they'd all been upgraded to/replaced by the B1 standard by June '44. Which touches on another point regarding 'that other thread': just because it was in CMx1 doesn't mean it belongs there. The amount of focused, targeted research that goes into the CMx2 TOEs is astonishing.

 

Thanks.

 

I couldn't find the plain Priest. But I agree with the "just because it was in CMBO" statement. BFC has had 15 more years of research behind them and by looking at it, anything that was cut, for whatever reason, well we sure benefited with the other vehicles that were added that's for sure.

 

My main reason for updating this was to show that just because the timeline may have shrunk doesn't mean the content has. On the contrary, it's swelled. Once the Bulge and it's modules come out and we have the full "CMBO experience" it's going to be beyond what anyone had imagined when this thread was first posted!

 

 

In a similar vein, a couple of years ago someone was chuntering about all the 'missing' stuff from CMFI, so I compared infantry TOEs for the Americans in CMAK (Italy timeframe) and CMFI (incl GL), Even though CMFI covers a shorter slice of the Italian Campaign, there are vastly more discrete TOEs available for the Americans. I feel safe in assuming the same is just as true of the British, Italians, and Germans.

 

I'd like to see someone do a list like that of CMBN and CMBO. LOL. Not me, though it probably wouldn't be too hard if you just went by the titles of the formations. But I'll bet when those are added into what I've posted here people will start to understand just how much more there really is. If you look at the "smaller scoped" titles as a whole (CMBN/Bulge = CMBO) etc. You start to grasp how much more vast our experience is gonna be compared to CMX1.

 

That's what I was trying to say to some of those guys in that RT thread, who can only see the right now. If RT (and the other Eastern Front titles) go the same way CMBN has it'll be beyond what CMBB was. But some people can't look past their nose. Yeah, we get smaller portions of content doled at a time but in the end it works out better and BFC can assure they stay fed while it's happening.

 

 

Mord.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Mord