CMBO CM:BN Equipment comparrison chart

[Mord]

Decided to whip up an equipment chart to compare CMBO and CM:BN for the same time period; June 44 to September 44. There's quite a lot to be happy with...especially for the American side. I only bothered with vehicles and on map assets...no formations, small arms or artillery/air support. First...US stuff.

..........AMERICAN TANKS

......CM:BO.........................CM:BN

M4 Sherman.................M4 Sherman Late

.................................M4 Sherman Late (Rhino)

.................................M4 Sherman Mid

M4(105) Sherman.........M4 105 Sherman Early

................................M4 105 Sherman Early (Rhino)

................................M4 105 Sherman Mid

M4A1 Sherman ..........M4A1 Sherman Late

...............................M4A1 Sherman Late Rhino

...............................M4A1 Sherman Mid

M4A1 (76)W..............M4A1 76W Sherman Early

..............................M4A1 76W Sherman Mid

M4A3 Sherman...........M4A3 Sherman

...............................M4A3 Sherman (Rhino)

N/A..........................M4A3 105 Sherman Early

...............................M4A3 105 Sherman Early (Rhino)

...............................M4A3 105 Sherman Mid

M4A3 75W Sherman.....M4A3 75W Sherman Early

...............................M4A3 75W Sherman Early (Rhino)

...............................M4A3 75W Sherman Mid

M4A3 76W Sherman....M4A3 76W Sherman Early

..............................M4A3 76W Sherman Mid

M4A3 E2 Sherman (Jumbo)........N/A ?

M5a1 Stuart..............M5a1 Stuart Late

..............................M5a1 Stuart Late (Rhino)

AMERICAN TANK DESTROYERS

M10.........................M10 GMC (Rhino)

..............................M10 GMC

..............................M10 GMC Late

M18 Hellcat...............N/A

M7 Priest..................N/A

M7B1 Priest...............M7B1 Priest

M8HMC.....................M8HMC

.......AMERICAN ARMORED CARS, HALFTRACKS ETC.

M8 Greyhound................M8 AC Early

...................................M8 AC Mid

M20 Arm. Utility Car........M20 AC

M3A1 Scout Car.............N/A

Jeep.............................Jeep

Jeep MG.......................Jeep MMG

Truck...........................2.5 Ton Truck

M21 Mortar Carrier..........M21 Halftrack (?) may or may not be same

M3 Halftrack..................M3 Halftrack (1x M1919)

...................................M3 Halftrack (2x M1919)

...................................M3 Halftrack (1x M2HB)

M3A1 Halftrack...............M3A1 Halftrack (M2HB and M1919)

...................................M3A1 Halftrack (M2HB)

M4A1 Mortar Carrier.........M4A1 Halftrack

.........AMERICAN AT GUNS/MORTARS (On Map)

57mm AT..................57mm M1 AT

76mm AT..................76mm M5 AT

105mm M2A1 How.......N/A

40mm Bofors AA..........N/A

90mm M2 AA...............N/A

60mm Mortar...............60mm M2 Mortar

81mm Mortar...............81mm M1 Mortar

Notes on US Equipment; 4 Vehicles Missing; White Scout Car, Hellcat, M7 Priest, Sherman Jumbo.

New Vehicle; 1(X3) M4A3 105 Sherman

M3 Halftrack has X3 Versions

M3A1 Halftrack has X2 Versions

2.5 Ton Truck has X2 Versions

CMBO had 24 vehicles and 5 AT guns from June to September.

CM:BN has 42 vehicles and 2 AT guns.

CMBO gave us 9 different tanks for June to September, CM:BN will give us 23. CM:BN includes a tank CMBO did not have during the same periods. As I am assuming each of these tanks will have it's own model and look like the tank being represented (I.E. Not shared)...That's pretty damn cool.

M3A1 Scout Car is out...hoping this makes an appearance in a later module 'cause it's one of my favs.

Next up...The Germs!

Mord.

[Sequoia]

I don't think the Hellcat reached the front until mid Sept '44, barely making it into the time frame. I believe after the Commonwealth module comes out we'll already have close to 90% of the vehicles/guns we had in CMBO giving them 2 more modules and another game family (the Bulge) to equal what we got with CMBO. Steve said he doesn't want to make that a goal but I think they'll acheive that quite easily especially since one module will have rare vehicles as one of its selling points.

[Dietrich]

CMBO had 24 vehicles and 5 AT guns from June to September.

CM:BN has 42 vehicles and 2 AT guns.

Interesting how the newer and more vehicle-icious game has fewer AT guns. Then again, the US Army was much more mechanized than the Wehrmacht actually was, so no wonder they had fewer (towed) AT guns.

[Mord]

I don't think the Hellcat reached the front until mid Sept '44, barely making it into the time frame. I believe after the Commonwealth module comes out we'll already have close to 90% of the vehicles/guns we had in CMBO giving them 2 more modules and another game family (the Bulge) to equal what we got with CMBO. Steve said he doesn't want to make that a goal but I think they'll acheive that quite easily especially since one module will have rare vehicles as one of its selling points.

Yes, I concur...but I am only focusing on the June to September listing. I'll give the Hellcat a mental pass seeing that, like you said, it just made it in.

The American equipment nearly came in dead on, at least as far as vehicles go in the main title...if there are any additions to the US roster in any of the three remaining modules for Normandy they'll surely hit that mark.

The Germs are another story...I have the notes but haven't written it up yet and there are some big holes comparatively speaking. But the Germs will most likely have new equipment in every single module so even if they don't hit the full list for the time period it should get close.

I am really happy with everything I've seen...this list is more out of interest and comparing than complaining...so I don't want it to be mistaken for such. It's definitely gonna be a quality AND quantity game.

Mord.

[Mord]

Interesting how the newer and more vehicle-icious game has fewer AT guns. Then again, the US Army was much more mechanized than the Wehrmacht actually was, so no wonder they had fewer (towed) AT guns.

The Germs do better in this department, they have 8 out of 14.

Mord.

[MikeyD]

Haw! I didn't realize. I recall Steve, a long time ago, saying they were going to have to trade numbers of vehicle types for increased model quality. Then he went ahead and increased numbers of vehicle types anyway!

CM:BN has fewer AT guns than CMBO because CMBO AT gun allocation was a bit screwy. 'Official' airborne TO&E has 37mm AT gun, but before the balloon went up they had in fact 'unofficially' traded them all in for late model British 6 pounders. And 90mm AA guns doing double duty as an AT gun is a myth.

[Mord]

Shhhhh...we don't want him to hear.

LOL. He did say stuff like that at first and then later on said we'd probably end up seeing the same or more for the time periods covered...which is what I'd hoped for when the module concept was announced. I actually think they charge too little for the Modules...I'd gladly pay 35 per...and it could justify them putting all that extra stuff in. Title should run between 50 and 60 and Modules between 35 and 40...it's a fair price in my mind especially when you get so little in most games that retail at 50 bucks or more.

Mord.

[PaulMG]

Careful what you wish for.

[Dietrich]

I actually think they charge too little for the Modules...I'd gladly pay 35 per...and it could justify them putting all that extra stuff in. Title should run between 50 and 60 and Modules between 35 and 40...it's a fair price in my mind especially when you get so little in most games that retail at 50 bucks or more.

Now it's your turn to be told: Shhhhhhh! =P

If BFC were to charge as much as big-name, huge-budget, profit-mongering companies do, wouldn't that effectively be one less thing in BFC's favor?

However, I do concur in terms of where you're coming from—the replay value of the CM games (CMx1 as well as CMx2, for those who may think that playing CMx2 invalidates any due appreciation of CMx1) is so high that they're in effect underpriced.

Looking forward to your equipment list for the Germ[an]s!

[silverstars]

Should September really be used in this comparison? I was under the impression that the first two modules where from June-August, with the third module adding September-issued vehicles.

Also, counting the Rhino mods as different tanks might be a little sketchy considering CMBO had the work around that if you where in the month of July forwards, the game treated the tanks as having Rhinos. Although there is something to be said about the fact we can actually SEE the Rhinos on the tanks now......

Irregardless, Thanks for the effort! The pics really bring home the difference in visual quality!

[WineCape]

The new grass mod will be ace.... all else are just doodads.

[Sitting Duck]

The new grass mod will be ace.... all else are just doodads.

But will there be a grass mod with a grid?

[Mord]

..........GERMAN TANKS & ARMOR

......CM:BO.........................CM:BN

Panzer IVG.....................Pz IV G Early

....................................Pz IV G Late

....................................Pz IV G Latest

Panzer IVH.......................Pz IV H Early

.....................................Pz IV H Late

Panzer IVJ.......................Pz IV J Early

.....................................Pz IV J Late

Panzer IV 70(v)..................N/A

Jagdpanzer IV......................Jpz IV Early

........................................Jpz IV Early (HQ)

Jagdpanzer IV Skirt................Jpz IV Mid

.........................................Jpz IV Mid (HQ)

..........................................Jpz IV Late

..........................................Jpz IV Late (HQ)

StuH 42..............................StuH 42 Early

N/A....................................StuH 42 Mid

StuH 42 Late.......................Stuh42 Late

Strumgeschutz IIIG................StuG III G Early

N/A.....................................StuG III G Mid

Strumgeschutz IIIG Late..........StuG III G Late

Strumgeschutz IV.....................N/A

Tiger VIE..............................Tiger Mid

Tiger VIE Late.......................Tiger Late

Panther VA............................Panther A Early

...........................................Panther A Mid

...........................................Panther A Late

Panther VG............................Panther G Early

N/A......................................Panther D Late

Hetzer....................................N/A

Lynx.......................................N/A

Hotchkiss................................N/A

JagdPanther............................N/A

King Tiger................................N/A

King Tiger (Porsche Turret).........N/A

..........GERMAN SELF-PROPELLED GUNS ETC.

Marder II..................................N/A

Marder III Late..........................Marder III Late

Wespe....................................N/A

Hummel...................................N/A

Nashorn...................................N/A

Whirblewind..............................N/A

..........GERMAN ARMORED CARS, HALFTRACKS, ETC.

SdKfz2 7 Guntractor..................N/A

SdKfz2 7/1 Flak........................N/A

SdKfz2 7/2 Flak........................N/A

PSW 234/1 AC.........................Psw 234/1

PSW 234/2 Puma.....................Psw 234/2 Puma

PSW 234/3 AC.........................NA

N/A..........................................PSW 222

N/A..........................................PSW 223

SPW 250/1...............................Sdkfz 250/1 Neu Halftrack

N/A.........................................Sdkfz 250/3 Neu Halftrack

SPW 250/7...............................Sdkfz 250/7 Neu Halftrack

SPW 250/9...............................Sdkfz 250/9 Neu Halftrack

SPW 251/1..............................Sdkfz 251/1 D Halftrack

SPW 251/2..............................Sdkfz 251/2 D Halftrack

N/A........................................Sdkfz 251/3 D Halftrack

SPW 251/9..............................Sdkfz 251/9 D Halftrack

N/A.........................................Sdkfz 251/10 D Halftrack

SPW 251/16..................................N/A

Kubelwagen...................................Kubelwagen

Opel Blitz......................................Opel Blitz (2 Variations)

..........GERMAN AT GUNS AND MORTARS (On Map).

50mm Mortar..................................N/A

81mm Mortar.............................81mm GrW 34 Mortar

75mm IG...................................75mm leIG 18

150mm IG..................................150mm sIG 33

50mm Pak38...............................50mm PaK 38

75mm Pak40..............................75mm PaK 40

88mm Pak43..............................88mm PaK 43

88mm Pak43/41..........................88mm PaK 43/41

20mm Quad Flak................................N/A

88mm Flak.................................88mm Flak 36

75mm Howitzer...................................N/A

105mm Howitzer.................................N/A

75mm Recoiless..................................N/A

105mm Recoiless.................................N/A

88mm Pupchen...................................N/A

37mm Flak.........................................N/A

NOTES:

CMBO had 21 different Tanks and Armor. CMBN will have 26.

CMBO had 42 Vehicles and 14 AT Guns.

CM:BN has 45 Vehicles and 8 AT Guns.

18 Vehicles are missing from CM:BN.

We have 8 NEW Vehicles THAT were NOT included in CMBO for the period between June and September.

We have three modules to see how much German stuff that is missing will make it in. That would be 6 vehicles per module to tie CMBO for the Germies.

Let me be the first to lobby for the PSW234/3...I am a sucker for the AC's!

Oh and Nashorn, Wespe, Hummel, and Hetzer!

Anyway, we gotta lot of good stuff with the first release!

Mord.

[gibsonm]

Well Nashorn was “in” and then went “out” as the timeframe was wrong for units on the Western Front.

So no doubt when the timeframe is right, it will be back.

[Mord]

Now it's your turn to be told: Shhhhhhh! =P

LOL...yeah.

Actually I believe I paid the most out of anyone on this planet for CMBO. I was broke when it came out and sold 32 PC games I owned to a game store for 2 bucks a piece so I could buy it! 32x an average of $30.00 a piece...some were more! And I actually had two D&D software items inside one of the boxes and had forgotten...they were both going for about 150 on Ebay a couple years back!

So...50 bucks...no so bad.

Should September really be used in this comparison? I was under the impression that the first two modules where from June-August, with the third module adding September-issued vehicles.

Sure. The entire Title and modules will take us from June to September, this gives us an idea of what will be left to add for the Germs and US, at least.

Also, counting the Rhino mods as different tanks might be a little sketchy considering CMBO had the work around that if you where in the month of July forwards, the game treated the tanks as having Rhinos. Although there is something to be said about the fact we can actually SEE the Rhinos on the tanks now......

Irregardless, Thanks for the effort! The pics really bring home the difference in visual quality!

Well, they probably should be counted 'cause if you buy a tank that doesn't have them they won't be able to breach hedgerows...in CMBO every US tank was considered to have had them in July, correct?

You are welcome.

Well Nashorn was “in” and then went “out” as the timeframe was wrong for units on the Western Front.

So no doubt when the timeframe is right, it will be back.

Great. Thanks for the info...I thought there had been mention of a Nashorn before...

Mord.

[Battlefront.com]

Just a note that (surprisingly even to me) *most* of the "missing" stuff on Mord's lists aren't correct for the initial release's timeframe or focus on the American sector. I say surprising to me because we never bothered to look at what CMBO had when we were putting in stuff for CM:BN's initial release. We simply added what we thought should be available. Guess that worked out well for you guys

Short list of date related vehicles that would be incorrect to have in the initial release because we only cover until the end of August:

M-18

Jumbo

Nashorn (I'm not even sure this is valid until Bulge timeframe)

Hetzer

Then there are the vehicles that aren't applicable to CM:BN because they didn't come up against American forces. A couple off the top of my head:

King Tigers (both variants)

Jagdpanther

Lynx

For guns I can't remember what the deal is with the German recoilless use in Normandy.

I'd argue that the different variants of trucks shouldn't count. It's the same truck, just with different ammo loads (something CMBO didn't have a concept of). But I would argue that the tanks with Rhinos should be counted separately since they offer unique capabilities that the other tanks, even of the same exact type, don't have. True that CMBO didn't "need" these because all tanks could magically go through hedgerows after June, but that's a different issue

Steve

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Pretty sure the Brits faced Jagdpanthers and I would very disappointed to find this very lovely TD missing from the Brit module.

[Mord]

I counted the trucks twice (for both forces) because we get two different models for them...one with the canvas on and one with it off...even if they share a body they still look distinguishable from each other...so BONUS!!!

And yeah, what Elmar said...Jagdpanther.

Mord.

[Battlefront.com]

I thought the Jagdpanther didn't show up until later. Oh well, I've not paid any attention to what the British Module will or will not have in a very long time. When it matters we'll make sure everything is right.

Steve

[Battlefront.com]

Ah, quick check shows that one battalion of Jagdpanther were in Normandy vs. the Brits in at least late July, though possibly earlier. So obviously we're not going to pass up on this cat for the British Module I moved the Jagdpanther in my list above to not relevant to CM:BN's initial release because of location instead of date.

Steve

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Score!

What did I win, other then Jagdpanthers in the Brit module?

[Mord]

The PSW 234/3...

Mord.

[gibsonm]

Score!

What did I win, other then Jagdpanthers in the Brit module?

Lets see, the patience to wait the 18 months or so for it to come out?

[Sequoia]

For guns I can't remember what the deal is with the German recoilless use in Normandy.

Steve

I'm thinking only Fallschirmjaegers and Gebirgsjaegers used Recoilless-at least in Normandy.

[Sequoia]

Oh and Nashorn, Wespe, Hummel, and Hetzer!

Mord.

I don't know this for a fact but I wouldn't be surprised if only SS divisions had the Wespe and Hummel in Normandy.