So CM:N is an new game then ? not a module ?

[scottie]

"CMx2: Normandy (whatever)" + modules will only cover the Summer of Westfront 1944 up to Marget Garden in September.

The second CMx2 WW2 Westfront family called for now "CMx2: Bulge (whatever)" will cover the time from start of Battle of Hürtgen Forest in autumn and the Ardennes Offensive (Bulge) in Winter till the end of war in May 1945.

Reason is the needed implementation of autumn and winder graphics + weather effects and new unit types + organizations (Volksgrenadier, Volkssturm etc.) in the game engine.

think you are spot on there.

[Lt Belenko]

Y'know, even if the game lacks beach landing 'bells & whistles' it'll still have water, sand, walls, cliffs, bunkers, infantry, artillery, mortars, smoke, barbed wire, tank obstacles, mines, offshore bombardment, etc etc. It seems "Can't do beach landings" really means "Can 85%+ do beach landings, though not strictly optimized for the task".

So create a beach map and simply say in the orders text your bullet-riddled LCMs are beached just off-map and your men are at the sea wall, or coming on in waves as 'reinforcements.

Exactly - just no boats. And to simulate boats create some fords jutting out into the water and have trucks or HTs appear there as reinforcements.

[Battlefront.com]

Yes, Sawomi is correct. On the Eastern Front the plan is to break the whole war up into four 1 year long periods, starting from the summer offensive until the spring of the following year. This corresponds quite nicely to TO&E changes. Or as nicely as anything on the Eastern Front works

Steve

[Pvt. Ryan]

Is that 4 games or 1 game and 3 modules?

[Wodin]

1 game and three modules

[Sequoia]

1 game and three modules

Are we talking Eastern Front? I'm pretty sure then we're talking 4 games- '44,'43,'42,'41 and the Ostfront is big enough to handle it. For example, the talk was the initial Eastfront base game would cover only Summer '44. Later modules in the initial game would take us to the end of the War in Europe with the Finn's also possibly being included in a module. But remember, so far probably not one line of code has been written.

[vincere]

4 games and 12 modules is a bit much if you ask me. As much as I love east front I think that that could weaken the brand. 1 game and 3+ modules sounds more viable to me.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

To you it sounds viable. To the people making it or paying for the making of it, probably not that viable.

Having said hat, 4 games strikes me as a bit much too. Should be enough commonality in equipment between an early, mid and late war game that it could be done with less then that. Certainly if every title got its full complement of modules.

[Sequoia]

Each new game would be adding new features making it more than just different vehicles etc and were probably talking taking until 2018, but as I said, probably not one line of code has been written and things will probably change quite a bit. 8 years ago didn't CMBB just come out?

[JonS]

Exactly - just no boats. And to simulate boats create some fords jutting out into the water and have trucks or HTs appear there as reinforcements.

You know ... you could have loaded and immobilised halftracks appearing at the waters edge, facing back out to sea, to represent the arrival of LCVP/Higgins Boats or LCAs. That way you'd even get a little fire support from the mounted MMG or HMG, the troops on board have a little cover, and they'd burn nicely when hit. It'd also model the increasing clutter and confusion at the water's edge quite well. (Wait, is this exactly what you meant in your post?)

Of course, they're a little small since a halftrack carries maybe 10-12 guys, while a LCVP/LCA carried about 20, and they wouldn't ever go back out to sea. And it'd require a bit of imagination and a suspension of disbelief. Still, maybe better than nothing, maybe.

Modelling LCTs, LCMs, and suchlike is still a challenge though.

[vincere]

To you it sounds viable. To the people making it or paying for the making of it, probably not that viable.

Having said hat, 4 games strikes me as a bit much too. Should be enough commonality in equipment between an early, mid and late war game that it could be done with less then that. Certainly if every title got its full complement of modules.

Come on 16 titles to cover the east front. Some of the appeal of getting all the modules would be lost for enough and likely see deminishing returns. That said, I guess their plan may be to space them out btween other titles so that are very different games.

Plus, I seem to remember a post saying the commonwealth module would take Normany to Market Garden.

[Sequoia]

You know ... you could have loaded and immobilised halftracks appearing at the waters edge, facing back out to sea, to represent the arrival of LCVP/Higgins Boats or LCAs. That way you'd even get a little fire support from the mounted MMG or HMG, the troops on board have a little cover, and they'd burn nicely when hit. It'd also model the increasing clutter and confusion at the water's edge quite well. (Wait, is this exactly what you meant in your post?)

Of course, they're a little small since a halftrack carries maybe 10-12 guys, while a LCVP/LCA carried about 20, and they wouldn't ever go back out to sea. And it'd require a bit of imagination and a suspension of disbelief. Still, maybe better than nothing, maybe.

Modelling LCTs, LCMs, and suchlike is still a challenge though.

This was actually done by Junk2Drive for CMAK.

[Sequoia]

Plus, I seem to remember a post saying the commonwealth module would take Normany to Market Garden.

Commonwealth Module would take us up to but not including Sept '44 then another Market_Garden Module to cover, well, Market-Garden itself as at least the US Airborne TO&E changed between Normandy and Market-Garden. After that there were widespread TO&E changes and a requirement for winter features that will be in a "Bulge" game, but there will be a final module for Summer '44 to give us cool stuff not in the 3 initial modules.

[vincere]

Commonwealth Module would take us up to but not including Sept '44 then another Market_Garden Module to cover, well, Market-Garden itself as at least the US Airborne TO&E changed between Normandy and Market-Garden. After that there were widespread TO&E changes and a requirement for winter features that will be in a "Bulge" game, but there will be a final module for Summer '44 to give us cool stuff not in the 3 initial modules.

Woa- ching ching goes the register Seriously, Im a little shocked that a game and 3 modules are not going to cover past Market Garden. And for the east front 4 games and 12 modules.

[Pvt. Ryan]

You don't necessarily need 12 modules for the east front. You could have 4 games with 1 or 2 modules for each. It depends on how many nationalities they plan to model. I don't think they plan to do the minor nations, so you would just have Germans and Soviets. Of course, they would need to do a module that adds mine dogs and those aerosleds.

[benpark]

No 1945 Eastern Front module planned? Gotta have those Hungarian/German terrain tiles and all the Axis militia types in there somewhere.

[Sequoia]

No 1945 Eastern Front module planned? Gotta have those Hungarian/German terrain tiles and all the Axis militia types in there somewhere.

Actually there probably is. A likely module breakdown for the first Eastfront game would probably go something like this:

Initial release: Operation Bagration -summer '44

First Module: Soviet winter offensive in Poland -through to Feb '45.

Second module: Battle of Berlin through to May '45

Third module: Balkans and Budapest and other stuff not included in the first three including the '44 Finns and the Poles.

In many ways '44 to '45 may be the least popular year, but it makes sense to start with it since you have half the work done already with Normandy.

[Battlefront.com]

Come on 16 titles to cover the east front.

You're lucky we're not making it 20 Seriously, there is so much stuff packed into the Eastern Front that trying to do it in less than 4 Families just isn't viable. The amount of changes each 6 months in the war is staggering. Not just vehicles and equipment, but the TO&E of the forces involved. And let's not forget the Axis Minors... the amount of effort to do even one of those is pretty major since there is very little shared between it and anybody else.

Some of the appeal of getting all the modules would be lost for enough and likely see deminishing returns.

If we do get to a point of diminishing returns we have a simple solution... stop making more Eastern Front products. We killed ourselves making CMBB and the sales did not justify the effort, so we're only going to make the effort if Eastern Fronters are willing to put their money where their mouths are. And if they don't... we will just cater our offerings to the viability of the marketplace. No hard feelings

That said, I guess their plan may be to space them out btween other titles so that are very different games.

Yes, of course. It's not like we're even physically capable of cranking out all that Eastern Front stuff within a year or two.

Plus, I seem to remember a post saying the commonwealth module would take Normany to Market Garden.

Module 1 = Commonwealth Forces within the same timeframe as the original release (i.e. August)

Module 2 = Market Garden for all sides (i.e. September).

Module 3 = Lots of cool stuff that didn't go into the previous three (base + two Modules) releases.

Steve

[Mord]

It all sounds good to me. My wallet and salivary glands are ready!

Market Garden...[slobberSound=Homer Simpson Drool] GLAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAALLLLLL...[/Drool]

Mord.

[phil stanbridge]

Yes, I dread to think how many $$$ I've already put BFC's way, but I'm happy to do so because they provide me with a 'fix' that nobody else currently provides. I'm so looking forward to the release of Normandy and the modules, but I hope to god Normandy makes an appearance before the new year, otherwise my computer time may be severely limited with a baby on the way, and the fourth module of my degree starting in February - aaaaarrggghhh!!

[scottie]

Module 1 = Commonwealth Forces within the same timeframe as the original release (i.e. August)

Module 2 = Market Garden for all sides (i.e. September).

Module 3 = Lots of cool stuff that didn't go into the previous three (base + two Modules) releases.

Steve

Happy to pay for this i will admit but 4 x Eastern front modules would bore me to tears. Only purchased CMBB because of the additional features and other type progress over CMBO. CMAK was the same (purcahsed 3 of these) ... but not to play African mission (landscape too bland) , downloaded a tonne of scenarios recreating Normandy (+ all the addition bits and bobs that the CMAK game engine provided) making CMAK for me the best game to date.

[scottie]

.... but I hope to god Normandy makes an appearance before the new year, otherwise my computer time may be severely limited with a baby on the way, and the fourth module of my degree starting in February - aaaaarrggghhh!!

Congratulations Phil ! we are on our second baby ( 5 months and 21 months) and i can assure you, your time will indeed be limited .... wouldn't change it for the world though !!!

What you studying ?

[panzermartin]

Oh man, trying to play an eastern front online game would be a nightmare.

-"Hey you got November 43?"

-"Nope, but I have January 44"

-"Damn, I only got January 43"

-"Ok, how about Winter of 45?"

-"Is this out yet?"

-"hmm.."

-" "

-"Hmm ok..do you have CMBB btw?"

[YankeeDog]

Oh man, trying to play an eastern front online game would be a nightmare.

-"Hey you got November 43?"

-"Nope, but I have January 44"

-"Damn, I only got January 43"

-"Ok, how about Winter of 45?"

-"Is this out yet?"

-"hmm.."

-" "

-"Hmm ok..do you have CMBB btw?"

I really don't think it would be so bad. Since everyone has to buy the base game, there would always be one year of the conflict that gamers could count on having in common. Last I heard, the initial Ost Front release was going to be centered around Bagration/1944.

[panzermartin]

Well I was mostly joking, not intended to take it literally BUT, this is still true for online CMSF where two people cant play a user made CMSf base mission that has a Marine humvee for instance. BFC should take this into account when spliting content of modules for eastern front. They will be so many you will hardly remember what's on your hard disk.