silverstars Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I know Steve has said that reworking the Quick Battles system is going to be for Normandy and that (for the most part) CMSF Modules are in the hands of third party developers. But since everything seems to be selling quite well, I was wondering if the price was right for them if they would implement the new QB system into CMSF? I personally would buy a Module that just added that more then a French/Chinese/whathaveyou module any day of the week. So how many people would pay for a "Cherry Pick" QB for CMSF Module, and how much? For me the answer is(obviously) yes, and I would be willing to pay 40$ for it.(although 25$ would be just as good) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hev Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 If by "cherry pick" you mean the ability to choose your forces then i certainly am not going to pay for that seeing as it should have been in the game from day one. the QB system is still sooo broken that (in my experience) you only get a wokable force 1 outta 3 tries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[hirr]Leto Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Of course there are many people out there who would like this feature. But I am not sure that the market BFC is targeting is those who prefer to use PBEM and play the game like "chess" competitively against an opponent. It seems to me the majority of gamers now play the campaigns in solo mode. These are the people who will play the game for 2 to 6 months, finish the campaigns (like many of the storyline FPS games now on the market) and then move on to the next module when it comes out and plunk down their 40 bucks for that. If you guys think we are EVER getting anything like the QB kit picking days of yore with CMx1, don't hold your breath, as Steve has already said that is not in the works. What has been promised is "better", and as we all know, that term is subjective. I'd pay (cue Dr. Evil) "ONE ZILLION DOLLARS" for the old QB system. But that's just me. Cheers! Leto 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Modules are $25 for download only, and I believe Steve said they are working on a new QB system for CM:N that will be a lot more like the QB system from CM:BO. There is no chance they are going to redo the QB system for CM:SF. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyDog Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I was pretty dissapointed that this feature was left out. I personally find it limits the replayability of the game, as I don't often get to play against a human, and I don't have the time to configure the AI in the scenario designer. I seem to remember that someone from Battlefront said that there was problems with forming a chain of command if the formal structure was circumvented. I am not sure how this is vastly different from what happens when HQ units become casulties, but hey what do I know! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Yeah, don't hold your breath. A great pity though. It was one of the cool things about CMx1. You picked your forces and ran with whatever goofball purchasing decision you made. Did I bring enough AT? Enough infantry? Why didn't I buy some MGs? Good troops or lots? It were all the thrilling questions you had to ask yourself, only to see the map and recoil in horror, leaving you to cope as best you could in terrain not suited to what seemed such a clever choice moments ago. It brought a whole different level of involvement too. That tank? You weren't handed it randomly, you asked for it. And somehow, that made you care just that little bit more as you tried to justify your decision to purchase it by using it well. I did, anyway. However, there are issues. How much purchasing points for a US infantry squad? It's only a squad of infantry. But they are carrying Javelin. Modern units have such far ranging abilities that it'd be tricky to give it a value that makes sense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pad152 Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 A new QB system for Normandy, does nothing for Shock Force! Battlefront has put out two expansions and working on another version of Shock Force with another developer so there should be enough resources to improve the QB System. Separate force size from map size. Allow players to select forces. The idea of cherry picking is just stupid, it's up to players to decide how to play the game not Battlefront. Add another $10 to the next expansion/module and just fix the dam QB system! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Would I like to play with realistic, logical force compositions in the QBs? Well, yeah...but I'm just happy to now be able to play QBs at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Yeah, I'll put a vote in for 'cherry picking' for those who want it. Really, it just means being able to choose the forces that you play with, even if these are less 'authentic'. Come on, its a game! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[hirr]Leto Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Come on, its a game! ...no it t'isn't!! It's a SIMULATION!!! ; ) Tomato, Tamato. We will just have to wait until we see the new system for QB's in CMx2 Normandy, and like all good groggy wargamers, sharpen our pitchforks in the dark and ensure that a large inventory of torches is on hand when we find that we are disappointed with the new system... and then, we will roll forth with fury upon our brows and brimstone upon our breath and storm the castle until we captured the hideous brain in a bottle that is Charles and force him to code to our desire!!! MWUAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! : ) Cheers! Leto 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Let's not forget there's not all that much to 'cherry pick' in CMSF. Should I go for an Abrams or... an Abrams! Should I pick a Stryker or... a Stryker! And whatever you pick for a tank on the Red side won't be able to penetrate an Abrams and will be able to kill anything else, no matter which tank you pick. CMAK is not like CMBB where you've got a choice between a CZ38T and a Tiger, and the Red side get to pick a BT fast tank or a KV-2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnedpuppy Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Chalk up another yes, the fun and enjoyment it brings outweighs any other argument. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falconander Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Yes, But if we brought back Cherry picking we would have to put some cream with it and say I should be able to pick a sniper, a 40MM Humvee, a single platoon, a spotter and some Cobras on call with 81MM on stand by. That would get my vote. No sense in cherry picking of you have to delete out 4/5 of what you don't want..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Let's not forget there's not all that much to 'cherry pick' in CMSF. Should I go for an Abrams or... an Abrams! Should I pick a Stryker or... a Stryker! And whatever you pick for a tank on the Red side won't be able to penetrate an Abrams and will be able to kill anything else, no matter which tank you pick. CMAK is not like CMBB where you've got a choice between a CZ38T and a Tiger, and the Red side get to pick a BT fast tank or a KV-2. That's not really the point. It would be nice to be able to choose your forces at all. Would you really choose to assault the enemy with nothing but TOW missiles? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatEtr Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well, I think the question should be, "Who doesn't want cherry picking?". Since obviously the majority would want it in. But having to pay for something that most people think should of been there from the start, thats another matter. I could see down the road like a CMSF:Gold Edition with maybe a few extra units tossed in along with the updated QB system, maybe a small campaign thrown in too. I think most would pay for that, normal module priced, I know I sure would. But this of course would all be after Normandy ships with the new QB system and would be the final module for CMSF. I doubt this would ever happen though, they're plates are full with Normandy+Modules and then East Front. Besides, they've already clearly announced no new QB system for CMSF, it'll have to wait til CMSF 2. But imagine though, CMSF all modded up, Marines, Brits, Nato, and all cherry pick-able in QB. What a fun sandbox that would be! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 A vote here for cherry picking. As someone who played dozens and dozens of CMx1 games pbem, I can attest that the long term effect of cherry picking reduces the game to a stupefying sameness, where applied cost/benefit analysis produces an ever dwindling and repetitive selection of 'viable' units. Can you say 'Stugs' (CMBB)? Personally, I hated it. On the other hand, one feels that the demand for this feature from is so insistent on the forum that Battlefront should give in and give the squeaky wheels what they want. :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 What most people are calling 'cherry picking' I'd call 'scenarios'. Open a dozen QB maps in the editor, drop in whatever force mix you like, save as proper scenarios under a different name. Come back a week later and you will have forgot who's arrayed against who. Fight up a storm with your customized force. a TOW humvees against spies battle? - you got it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipski Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well, having played CMBO, CMBB and CMAK happily for years without ever even looking at anything other than Quick Battles, I bought Shock Force yesterday with both expansions. Stupidly I bought them by download, otherwise they'd be going straight back to the shop. QB without being able to pick your own units is the most wilfully stupid design decision I think I've ever come across. As I couldn't give two figs about the asinine `zomg dirty bombs' campaign either, I seem to have just wasted my money on a game I'm probably never going to play. Great. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[hirr]Leto Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 What most people are calling 'cherry picking' I'd call 'scenarios'. Open a dozen QB maps in the editor, drop in whatever force mix you like, save as proper scenarios under a different name. Come back a week later and you will have forgot who's arrayed against who. Fight up a storm with your customized force. a TOW humvees against spies battle? - you got it! I'm not sure if you don't have an appreciation for the thrill of 'kit picking' that was the centerpiece of CMx1 QB PBEM competitive matches. This is by far the most popular function of the game that allowed it to remain so well liked and played to this very day. The scenario system you propose just does not have the same appeal, and I think I can say that for most. In CMSF, I do agree, that you have very little choice or selection, but even the units available in CMSF now (with Marines and British forces) could be used in a kit picking system that would make it highly enjoyabe with statistically hundreds of permutations of kits, forces, strategies and gamestyles. What I think would be great with CMSF in a kit pick system similar to CMx1: mechanized and straight infantry battles where the tanks where left home and both Red and Blue forces could be on a more even keel. I've always wanted to try and simulate the movie "Black Hawk Down" in CMSF, with hundreds of 'skinnies' surrounding you in a city environment where all you have are a few BH squads and a few columns of highly penetratable Humvees and support units (perhaps someone has already made this scenario?). For me, kit picking and the deep sixing of this stupid 'fuzzy logic' scoring would make me very interested in CMSF again. (sure would be nice that if you lost a squad, you'd lose a certain amount of points, and if you lost a stryker, it would be a certain amount of points, and it would be nice to hold a REAL flag again. Cheers! Leto 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Pipski, While I broadly share your views on the games peripheral features, the core simulation is rather excellent and well worth giving a try. In between the first scenario and you getting bored with the more limited features there is still PLENTY of fun to be had. PS Welcome to the forum! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 There has always been the argument than in CM:SF you can't just cherry-pick individual vehicles and individual platoons, sharpshooters and the like because of the C&C system. I'm not sure I buy that as such, given that C&C still works fine when some units disappeared during the game. But however that might be, it should certainly be possible to delete unwanted stuff from units selected. And that the smallest unit selectable should be smaller than it is now. A purchase by "money" (or points) system would be great to have and certainly be doable (from a pricing standpoint) in Normandy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulik Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I didn't finished any scenario in CMx1 and only two of them in CMx2, for me it was all about multiplayer QuickBattles and various singleplayers QuickBattles unit testings and model situations created in couple of minutes. I buyed CMSF and i play it only for few hours after each patch is released to see whats new. Buying modules would be for me a waste of money since they only expand the types of gameplay that i don't like to play. Now don't get me wrong, i like the system of Shock force, but i want to model encounters with couple of clicks and not be forced to some kind of campaigns and scenarios. I keep high expectations towards CM:N thoug. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Johnston Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I'm not a great fan of the current system, but I think I'd rather see it refined to come up with more sensible forces than see it replaced by a "pick your force for 50 points" system (if it was to be refined and complemented by that sort of system, great, but on balance I'd prefer to tell the computer roughly what force I wanted than to tell it precisely). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackMoria Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Well, having played CMBO, CMBB and CMAK happily for years without ever even looking at anything other than Quick Battles, I bought Shock Force yesterday with both expansions. Stupidly I bought them by download, otherwise they'd be going straight back to the shop. QB without being able to pick your own units is the most wilfully stupid design decision I think I've ever come across. As I couldn't give two figs about the asinine `zomg dirty bombs' campaign either, I seem to have just wasted my money on a game I'm probably never going to play. Great. Hmm. You got the game and modules yesterday and already you have made the decision the game is crap. That is remarkable. It usually takes me a week of steady playing and kicking the tires before I write a game off as crap. Let me guess. You didn't play any of the scenarios, start any of the campaigns, download and try any of the hundreds of scenarios and mods. You went straight to the quick battles, found it wasn't like CMx1 and the game is crap. Or is my guess wrong? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Brazil Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me the old quick battles, or give me death! -Patrick Henry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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